Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season

01-04-2018, 12:31 AM

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.
Game manager - Wikipedia

In 2017...
Highest accuracy (in NFL history) - 72%
Highest yards per attempt - 8.09
Most completions - 386
2nd highest passer rating - 103.9
4th highest total passing yards - 4,334
5th highest 1st down %

These are not "relatively poor individual statistics", therefore, Brees doesn't fit the definition of "game manager."

Originally Posted by burningmetal

...But I see game managers around the league that I could get for a lot less...

Drew Brees 2017 salary is 5th in the NFL at $24.25m/year. Brees is a good deal by comparison to other quarterbacks. You could pay less but you're gonna get less of a quarterback.

burningmetal · 01-04-2018, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.
Game manager - Wikipedia

In 2017...
Highest accuracy (in NFL history) - 72%
Highest yards per attempt - 8.09
Most completions - 386
2nd highest passer rating - 103.9
4th highest total passing yards - 4,334
5th highest 1st down %

These are not "relatively poor individual statistics", therefore, Brees doesn't fit the definition of "game manager."

Drew Brees 2017 salary is 5th in the NFL at $24.25m/year. Brees is a good deal by comparison to other quarterbacks. You could pay less but you're gonna get less of a quarterback.

A game manager to me is someone who plays a more conservative style and relies on shirt passing and running game, and who is not someone who puts the team on his shoulders when the running game and defense aren't there.

That would seem to describe Drew, this year. He had Kamara make a lot of short plays turn into big gains, and he had a running game finally. But when you he needed to step up and win a game when the running game wasn't there, he didn't seem to do so well. Being a game manager doesn't mean you are poor, it means you are conservative. The Saints employ shirt passing as an extension of the running game, and that allows for Brees to easily get his 4,000 yards. He only had 22 touchdowns and, again, was the beneficiary of an explosive RB on screen plays.

I gave you the comparison to Alex Smith, whom everyone has labeled as a game manager. Very similar stats all across the board and also averaged 8 yards per pass.

If you can keep Drew at 24 million a year, fine. We're talking about the next contract, and I've heard numerous people saying he's easily worth 30 million. To which, I disagree.

burningmetal · 01-04-2018, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Just can't accept any comparison of Drew Brees as a game manager. I'll agree that Trent Dilfer was the all time great 'game manager'. This is not Drew Brees.

Or, aren't all QBs game managers? It can only matter then which is the best of the managers, and I'd rank Drew Brees as high on that list as I would have in 2009. Today.

But if you consider a 'game manager' to be some sort of 'lesser' abled QB, which is how I would use the term, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Rather than repeat myself, I'll refer you to my post right above this one for my personal definition of a game manager.

As for Trent Dilfer, I don't even think he was a good game manager. He honestly did almost nothing. They were winning games 10-7 and 7-3. Drew is not a bad QB. He's still a very good one. But I don't see him showing a consistent ability to take over games when he doesn't have the luxury of an effective running game and defense. I respect if people disagree with me. But I'm making what I see as a legitimate observation.

He's a QB you'd rather have than not, compared to most of what's out there. But, I wouldn't pay more than he's making currently, if it were up to me.

FinSaint · 01-04-2018, 01:46 AM

NFL is not moneyball, so just looking at stats holds less validity than it does in a sport like baseball.

Box scores tell quite a limited story of the events that unfold in the game itself.

There are quite a few teams looking for a leader, who would drown Brees in cash if he would be available.

I don't see anything in Brees' performances, which would warrant a change in that position. He is still top 5 in his position in the league, and would be extremely difficult to replace without taking a hit to the overall effectiveness of the offense.

The Saints are financially in an ok place, and with the ever increasing salary budget - re-signing Brees is a no-brainer IMO.

burningmetal · 01-04-2018, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

NFL is not moneyball, so just looking at stats holds less validity than it does in a sport like baseball.

Box scores tell quite a limited story of the events that unfold in the game itself.

There are quite a few teams looking for a leader, who would drown Brees in cash if he would be available.

I don't see anything in Brees' performances, which would warrant a change in that position. He is still top 5 in his position in the league, and would be extremely difficult to replace without taking a hit to the overall effectiveness of the offense.

The Saints are financially in an ok place, and with the ever increasing salary budget - re-signing Brees is a no-brainer IMO.

I realize and agree that just plain stats don't always tell the story. But I am aware from reading summaries and seeing what games the running game was there, or wasn't there (including the first two games that I DID watch, before I began boycotting), that Brees didn't really step up when he was called upon to carry the offense. So how impressive was his season, really? I am not thoroughly impressed.

I think there is a lot of bias on this board because of what Brees has done over his career. I expect the reactions I get. But I stopped being so biased about players, even when I was supporting the team, long ago. The guy is going on 40. It's ok to do what he's doing at his age. Is it elite? I've given my answer numerous times. You folks disagree with me. That's fine. I'm not one to say things for the sake of saying it, or stirring up controversy. I'm calling it as I see it.

AsylumGuido · 01-04-2018, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Well you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But I see game managers around the league that I could get for a lot less. If I were to pay top dollar for a player, I expect top notch results, regardless of what his name is, or what the perception of him is.

It's a business, and I don't believe in paying for sentimental reasons. I might be in the minority on this board, but I've always been more of the type to look at production, and I don't get attached to players very much.

That's not to say Drew isn't capable. But I am firmly of the belief that players diminish at this age, not matter what they try to say about their nutrition. Nutrition might help your ticker, but it won't save you from bone crushing hits over a long career. But I guess none of this is really my problem anymore. It'll be what it'll be.

Herein lies your misconception. Not only is nutrition a factor in how much longer a QB can perform at higher levels these days as compared to as recently as ten years ago, but actual pounding that the position takes has decreased exponentially over than same period. Also not taken into consideration is the year round physical training that several of today's QB's employ, as well as recent advancements in medical care. You are basing your entire opinion about the effective longevity of the current day QB on factors that are no longer valid.

It is like basing the performance of a present day computer upon your experience with the one you owned ten years ago. It's like comparing apples and hard cider.

AsylumGuido · 01-04-2018, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Peyton Manning was a broken down shell of himself, and got benched. There is being a game manager, and being bad. Peyton was bad by that point. They won a super bowl with defense.

Same way the 2000 Ravens won with Trent Dilfer and an all time great defense.

Drew proved to be a pretty good game manager this year. But is that worth elite money? I'd argue that no, it isn't. But I have no doubt that is what he'll get.

The point that you are not getting is that Brees isn't simply a game manager. If you actually watched the games you would see that he is just as capable as he has always been. All you see are his stats which you interpret as a drop-off in ability. The reality is that the running game and an improved defense have lessened the need for him to put up the huge numbers. It hasn't been necessary, but to be as good as the Saints can be it is vital that the capability is there if, and when, it is needed.

AsylumGuido · 01-04-2018, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

A game manager to me is someone who plays a more conservative style and relies on shirt passing and running game, and who is not someone who puts the team on his shoulders when the running game and defense aren't there.

That would seem to describe Drew, this year. He had Kamara make a lot of short plays turn into big gains, and he had a running game finally. But when you he needed to step up and win a game when the running game wasn't there, he didn't seem to do so well. Being a game manager doesn't mean you are poor, it means you are conservative. The Saints employ shirt passing as an extension of the running game, and that allows for Brees to easily get his 4,000 yards. He only had 22 touchdowns and, again, was the beneficiary of an explosive RB on screen plays.

I gave you the comparison to Alex Smith, whom everyone has labeled as a game manager. Very similar stats all across the board and also averaged 8 yards per pass.

If you can keep Drew at 24 million a year, fine. We're talking about the next contract, and I've heard numerous people saying he's easily worth 30 million. To which, I disagree.

How can you even make an argument about the physical ability of a player that you haven't even watched play? The Saints have had the ability to play a vastly different style of football this season based upon several favorable factors. The resulting statistics have nothing to do with the ability of the QB. You would know that if you had actually watched every snap Brees had played like the rest of us.

AsylumGuido · 01-04-2018, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I realize and agree that just plain stats don't always tell the story. But I am aware from reading summaries and seeing what games the running game was there, or wasn't there (including the first two games that I DID watch, before I began boycotting), that Brees didn't really step up when he was called upon to carry the offense. So how impressive was his season, really? I am not thoroughly impressed.

I think there is a lot of bias on this board because of what Brees has done over his career. I expect the reactions I get. But I stopped being so biased about players, even when I was supporting the team, long ago. The guy is going on 40. It's ok to do what he's doing at his age. Is it elite? I've given my answer numerous times. You folks disagree with me. That's fine. I'm not one to say things for the sake of saying it, or stirring up controversy. I'm calling it as I see it.

No you aren't calling it as you see it because you haven't seen it. THAT is the point. If you had seen it you would understand why you are so far off base. Nothing personal, but in this case you truly do not know what you are talking about because you have chosen to ignore one of the most important factors when evaluating the performance of an NFL player ... the eye test.

Mardigras9 · 01-04-2018, 08:41 AM

Brees has secured his spot to finish his career a Saint, there really is no discussion.

01-04-2018, 12:31 AM	#31
Threaded by Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521 Rating: (0 votes - average) In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. Game manager - Wikipedia In 2017... Highest accuracy (in NFL history) - 72% Highest yards per attempt - 8.09 Most completions - 386 2nd highest passer rating - 103.9 4th highest total passing yards - 4,334 5th highest 1st down % These are not "relatively poor individual statistics", therefore, Brees doesn't fit the definition of "game manager." Originally Posted by burningmetal ...But I see game managers around the league that I could get for a lot less... Drew Brees 2017 salary is 5th in the NFL at $24.25m/year. Brees is a good deal by comparison to other quarterbacks. You could pay less but you're gonna get less of a quarterback. saintfan, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
Views: 5504

01-04-2018, 01:22 AM	#32
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by Utah_Saint In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. Game manager - Wikipedia In 2017... Highest accuracy (in NFL history) - 72% Highest yards per attempt - 8.09 Most completions - 386 2nd highest passer rating - 103.9 4th highest total passing yards - 4,334 5th highest 1st down % These are not "relatively poor individual statistics", therefore, Brees doesn't fit the definition of "game manager." Drew Brees 2017 salary is 5th in the NFL at $24.25m/year. Brees is a good deal by comparison to other quarterbacks. You could pay less but you're gonna get less of a quarterback. A game manager to me is someone who plays a more conservative style and relies on shirt passing and running game, and who is not someone who puts the team on his shoulders when the running game and defense aren't there. That would seem to describe Drew, this year. He had Kamara make a lot of short plays turn into big gains, and he had a running game finally. But when you he needed to step up and win a game when the running game wasn't there, he didn't seem to do so well. Being a game manager doesn't mean you are poor, it means you are conservative. The Saints employ shirt passing as an extension of the running game, and that allows for Brees to easily get his 4,000 yards. He only had 22 touchdowns and, again, was the beneficiary of an explosive RB on screen plays. I gave you the comparison to Alex Smith, whom everyone has labeled as a game manager. Very similar stats all across the board and also averaged 8 yards per pass. If you can keep Drew at 24 million a year, fine. We're talking about the next contract, and I've heard numerous people saying he's easily worth 30 million. To which, I disagree.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-04-2018, 01:28 AM	#33
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by saintfan Just can't accept any comparison of Drew Brees as a game manager. I'll agree that Trent Dilfer was the all time great 'game manager'. This is not Drew Brees. Or, aren't all QBs game managers? It can only matter then which is the best of the managers, and I'd rank Drew Brees as high on that list as I would have in 2009. Today. But if you consider a 'game manager' to be some sort of 'lesser' abled QB, which is how I would use the term, then we will just have to agree to disagree. Rather than repeat myself, I'll refer you to my post right above this one for my personal definition of a game manager. As for Trent Dilfer, I don't even think he was a good game manager. He honestly did almost nothing. They were winning games 10-7 and 7-3. Drew is not a bad QB. He's still a very good one. But I don't see him showing a consistent ability to take over games when he doesn't have the luxury of an effective running game and defense. I respect if people disagree with me. But I'm making what I see as a legitimate observation. He's a QB you'd rather have than not, compared to most of what's out there. But, I wouldn't pay more than he's making currently, if it were up to me.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-04-2018, 01:46 AM	#34
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season NFL is not moneyball, so just looking at stats holds less validity than it does in a sport like baseball. Box scores tell quite a limited story of the events that unfold in the game itself. There are quite a few teams looking for a leader, who would drown Brees in cash if he would be available. I don't see anything in Brees' performances, which would warrant a change in that position. He is still top 5 in his position in the league, and would be extremely difficult to replace without taking a hit to the overall effectiveness of the offense. The Saints are financially in an ok place, and with the ever increasing salary budget - re-signing Brees is a no-brainer IMO. SaintFanInATLHELL, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

01-04-2018, 02:06 AM	#35
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by FinSaint NFL is not moneyball, so just looking at stats holds less validity than it does in a sport like baseball. Box scores tell quite a limited story of the events that unfold in the game itself. There are quite a few teams looking for a leader, who would drown Brees in cash if he would be available. I don't see anything in Brees' performances, which would warrant a change in that position. He is still top 5 in his position in the league, and would be extremely difficult to replace without taking a hit to the overall effectiveness of the offense. The Saints are financially in an ok place, and with the ever increasing salary budget - re-signing Brees is a no-brainer IMO. I realize and agree that just plain stats don't always tell the story. But I am aware from reading summaries and seeing what games the running game was there, or wasn't there (including the first two games that I DID watch, before I began boycotting), that Brees didn't really step up when he was called upon to carry the offense. So how impressive was his season, really? I am not thoroughly impressed. I think there is a lot of bias on this board because of what Brees has done over his career. I expect the reactions I get. But I stopped being so biased about players, even when I was supporting the team, long ago. The guy is going on 40. It's ok to do what he's doing at his age. Is it elite? I've given my answer numerous times. You folks disagree with me. That's fine. I'm not one to say things for the sake of saying it, or stirring up controversy. I'm calling it as I see it.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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01-04-2018, 08:18 AM	#36
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by burningmetal Well you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But I see game managers around the league that I could get for a lot less. If I were to pay top dollar for a player, I expect top notch results, regardless of what his name is, or what the perception of him is. It's a business, and I don't believe in paying for sentimental reasons. I might be in the minority on this board, but I've always been more of the type to look at production, and I don't get attached to players very much. That's not to say Drew isn't capable. But I am firmly of the belief that players diminish at this age, not matter what they try to say about their nutrition. Nutrition might help your ticker, but it won't save you from bone crushing hits over a long career. But I guess none of this is really my problem anymore. It'll be what it'll be. Herein lies your misconception. Not only is nutrition a factor in how much longer a QB can perform at higher levels these days as compared to as recently as ten years ago, but actual pounding that the position takes has decreased exponentially over than same period. Also not taken into consideration is the year round physical training that several of today's QB's employ, as well as recent advancements in medical care. You are basing your entire opinion about the effective longevity of the current day QB on factors that are no longer valid. It is like basing the performance of a present day computer upon your experience with the one you owned ten years ago. It's like comparing apples and hard cider. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-04-2018, 08:24 AM	#37
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by burningmetal Peyton Manning was a broken down shell of himself, and got benched. There is being a game manager, and being bad. Peyton was bad by that point. They won a super bowl with defense. Same way the 2000 Ravens won with Trent Dilfer and an all time great defense. Drew proved to be a pretty good game manager this year. But is that worth elite money? I'd argue that no, it isn't. But I have no doubt that is what he'll get. The point that you are not getting is that Brees isn't simply a game manager. If you actually watched the games you would see that he is just as capable as he has always been. All you see are his stats which you interpret as a drop-off in ability. The reality is that the running game and an improved defense have lessened the need for him to put up the huge numbers. It hasn't been necessary, but to be as good as the Saints can be it is vital that the capability is there if, and when, it is needed. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-04-2018, 08:29 AM	#38
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by burningmetal A game manager to me is someone who plays a more conservative style and relies on shirt passing and running game, and who is not someone who puts the team on his shoulders when the running game and defense aren't there. That would seem to describe Drew, this year. He had Kamara make a lot of short plays turn into big gains, and he had a running game finally. But when you he needed to step up and win a game when the running game wasn't there, he didn't seem to do so well. Being a game manager doesn't mean you are poor, it means you are conservative. The Saints employ shirt passing as an extension of the running game, and that allows for Brees to easily get his 4,000 yards. He only had 22 touchdowns and, again, was the beneficiary of an explosive RB on screen plays. I gave you the comparison to Alex Smith, whom everyone has labeled as a game manager. Very similar stats all across the board and also averaged 8 yards per pass. If you can keep Drew at 24 million a year, fine. We're talking about the next contract, and I've heard numerous people saying he's easily worth 30 million. To which, I disagree. How can you even make an argument about the physical ability of a player that you haven't even watched play? The Saints have had the ability to play a vastly different style of football this season based upon several favorable factors. The resulting statistics have nothing to do with the ability of the QB. You would know that if you had actually watched every snap Brees had played like the rest of us. Rugby Saint II likes this.

01-04-2018, 08:33 AM	#39
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Originally Posted by burningmetal I realize and agree that just plain stats don't always tell the story. But I am aware from reading summaries and seeing what games the running game was there, or wasn't there (including the first two games that I DID watch, before I began boycotting), that Brees didn't really step up when he was called upon to carry the offense. So how impressive was his season, really? I am not thoroughly impressed. I think there is a lot of bias on this board because of what Brees has done over his career. I expect the reactions I get. But I stopped being so biased about players, even when I was supporting the team, long ago. The guy is going on 40. It's ok to do what he's doing at his age. Is it elite? I've given my answer numerous times. You folks disagree with me. That's fine. I'm not one to say things for the sake of saying it, or stirring up controversy. I'm calling it as I see it. No you aren't calling it as you see it because you haven't seen it. THAT is the point. If you had seen it you would understand why you are so far off base. Nothing personal, but in this case you truly do not know what you are talking about because you have chosen to ignore one of the most important factors when evaluating the performance of an NFL player ... the eye test.

01-04-2018, 08:41 AM	#40
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Drew Brees regains NFL's record for completion percentage in a season Brees has secured his spot to finish his career a Saint, there really is no discussion.