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-   -   NOLA.com Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round (https://blackandgold.com/saints/88527-saints-draft-marcus-davenport-after-trading-up-first-round.html)

Seer1 05-06-2018 10:32 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 800869)
Yes. The 2017-2018 New Orleans Saints. Seriously, no.

Edit:

It must be noted that one team did have co-DROY's in one year, however:

1980 - Buddy Curry, Atlanta, LB, and Al Richardson, Atlanta, LB
And that was the year they won the Super Bowl!

Oh... wait........!

jeanpierre 05-06-2018 03:12 PM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 800844)
Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for the article as it was written by a former player...

But the article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile...

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options come to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bulls-eyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when Davenport lines up this Fall...

Seer1 05-06-2018 07:15 PM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 801295)
Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for it as it was written by a former player...

Article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile...

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall...
I'm thinking right now the Saints are year to year with Drew and they're going to keep sacrificing next year for a chance at a ring with Drew this year.

SaintFanInATLHELL 05-06-2018 07:54 PM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 801295)

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall...
It's all a value proposition. First is whether or not Davenport has the value to be picked at the spot. There were numerous predraft articles that had Davenport as a top ten pick to the likes of the Colts at 6, the Bears at 8, and San Francisco at 9, along with Green Bay where he was eventually picked at 14.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...0-12518950.php

More Buzz Builds Around Marcus Davenport, Who Reportedly Met With Bears on Pre-Draft Visit

Next is the value of the trade. This is Rich Hill's modern NFL draft value chart:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/C2_8...67/Capture.PNG

It shows #14 with a value of 325.31 and #27 @ 215.81 leaving a remaining 109.50./ The 5th round #147 is worth 12.66 leaving 96.84 left. Conventional wisdom is to value a pick next year 32 slots below its current value this year. The 96.84 is between the 24th and 25th pick in the 2nd round. So the 1st next year matches a 24-25 pick for next year.

As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH

jeanpierre 05-06-2018 11:06 PM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 801308)
As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH
Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...

This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...

For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...

There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...

SmashMouth 05-07-2018 07:49 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

K Major 05-07-2018 08:12 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 801308)
As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH
Precisely.

He's a Saint now and that's all that matters. I trust the front office on this move. If he turns into the next Julius Peppers, no one will care what it took to get Marcus in the 2018 Draft.

AsylumGuido 05-07-2018 08:17 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 801313)
Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...

This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...

For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...

There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...
I have to agree with you on this fact, JP. But, I am all in on trading the 2019 first rounder because I expect Davenport to have an immediate impact. And I honestly feel that Payton, Loomis, Allen AND Neilsen feel the exact same way and that is the reason they made the move. I have little doubt they tried to package a deal where it didn't include the future first. The Packers likely have as much confidence in the Saints going deep into the playoffs this year and were not interested in a second rounder that could easily be outside the first sixty picks of the draft. With Chubb gone there was probably not another potentially impact worthy DE on their board. They probably even approached other franchises in the attempt to move up. But, sometimes, if you believe in something strongly enough you must step outside the box a bit to get things done.

SaintFanInATLHELL 05-07-2018 09:38 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 801313)
Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...
By this I mean that you cannot assess the impact of a player as a rookie. Not everyone is going to be Lattimore and Kamara.

Ingram is a perfect example of this. Since he wasn't the 2nd coming of Gayle Sayers in a 2007 Adrian Peterson body when as a rookie (again on another trade up) he was instantly labeled a bust. But his performance over the last few years has frankly been exceptional considering the RB climate he plays in.

Quote:
This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...
Tell that to Vaughn Miller. The guy literally won SB50 by himself, taking out a franchise QB and #1 pick.

And those are the types of guys that Davenport is being compared to...

Quote:
For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...
Like JJ Watt, another that I've seen Davenport compared to.


Quote:
There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...
I don't think that's effective with gameday roster limitations. Also it takes exceptional talent to override most NFL O-line's ability to manage the rush.

SFIAH

K Major 05-07-2018 11:55 AM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Quick read on Marcus D & the importance of getting him early in the draft.

Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

jeanpierre 05-07-2018 04:09 PM
Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round
 
Guido and others made the point that we really don't know until they put the pads on in the Fall and they start playing how good a move it was...

Will be comparing Davenport to DT Taven Bryan, NT Harrison Phillips, DE Breeland Speaks, DE Rasheem Green, DE Jalyn Holmes - even DT Maurice Hurts among others...

And then we'll be on better footing to discuss the move to get Davenport...


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