Riddle me this:?

ScottyRo · 04-27-2005, 09:35 PM

I think he deserves to be cut immediately, but I don\'t think it\'s in the team\'s best interest because of what was paid to get him and what\'s been paid to him since.

I know you can find a quote on me saying we should bring him to camp work his tail off and cut him then if he\'s not any better.

saintswhodi · 04-27-2005, 09:43 PM

I know I said I wish we COULD curt him right now, but right in line with Scotty, it is not in the best interest of the team, at this point. One more year like last year and I really will not care if it\'s in our best interest or not.

BrooksMustGo · 04-27-2005, 09:43 PM

I\'ll just throw in my .02 to get to the crux of what Billy seems to be concerned about.

1. Sullivan was drafted to come in, start and be our franchise DT. He was paid as a top 10 pick, and continues to be paid according to his top 10 contract. He has failed so miserably at this that he is not even dressing out for games. It\'s hard for anyone to embrace a steaming, stinking, lazy pile of monkeycrap. (or monkey-carp, if you will)

2. According to some, AB is the greatest QB this team will ever have and will be the franchise QB for years to come.

3. If that is true, then McPherson was drafted in the 5th round as a project for depth. So, if he even makes it onto the team after camp, he will at best be the #2 QB but will most likely be trying to beat out Kingsbury or Finlan for the #3 spot.

4. Pretty easy to embrace a guy whose legal/ethical/moral failings don\'t cost much money, may not even make it onto the final roster, realizes that what he did was wrong, is trying to make things right and treasures having the chance to even come to camp. It is a night and day difference of attitude from the top 6 pick who doesn\'t care whether he plays or not, since he\'s still getting paid.

5. Bottom line--some of us admire that McPherson seems to be trying to make a change and realizes how lucky he is to have a chance to make a living playing a game we all love. For me, I like and respect his attitude. Now I can\'t peer into the guy\'s soul and tell you what he\'s really thinking/feeling/whatever, but I like what I\'m hearing.

6. By the way, AB will most likely be the starter for this team. Being the starter doesn\'t make me love him any more either.

Seems like this thread is all about loving Brooks by attacking a kid who made some dumb decisions and has owned up to them like a man and accepted the consequences like a man. I think what McPherson is doing now isn\'t something to be sneered at, no matter what you think of AB.

GumboBC · 04-27-2005, 09:45 PM

I think he deserves to be cut immediately, but I don\'t think it\'s in the team\'s best interest because of what was paid to get him and what\'s been paid to him since.

I know you can find a quote on me saying we should bring him to camp work his tail off and cut him then if he\'s not any better.

For what Sullivan has done, he probably deserves to get shipped out of town.

This guys gets paid a fortune to play football and he shows no desire to work hard and help a struggling defense get better.

I guess it all depends on how forgiving the \"individual\" fan is.

Sully made a promise to the coaches and the fans. Fine! I\'m willing to take the man at his word and wait to see what happens.

There\'s too much upside (as far as I\'m concerned) and too much downside (salary-cap) to cut Sully.

It\'s a no-brainer for me as far as what\'s in the best interest of the team.

I suppose I\'m just a little more forgiving than some?!

ScottyRo · 04-27-2005, 09:58 PM

Ok, but, back to the original point. If you\'re more forgiving than some, why can you forgive Sully and not McPherson?

One has only made hollow promises. The other has a two year track record of correcting his off-field issues.

[Edited on 28/4/2005 by ScottyRo]

Danno · 04-27-2005, 11:37 PM

\"I told the Saints that I\'m willing to put a clause in my contract that if the gambling ever came up, or if I was caught for gambling, that I would give back the money that I earned or whatever because that\'s not me.\"

This statement, plus a two year track record put him several notches above Sullivan.

Now if Sullivan busts his rear, gets in shape and plays lights out for a year, I\'d be behind him 100%. But he\'s done nothing to indicate he will, except talk.

To coin an annoying phrase...
Sullivan is talking the talk,
McPherson is walking the walk.

I see a huge difference, as of right now.

Tobias-Reiper · 04-28-2005, 12:30 AM

... threads like this one remind me of taking my kid to the ice cream parlor... they had a gumball machine filled with bouncy balls... my kid got 3-4 every time, and when we got back home, he\'d take them out of his pocket, and throw them all at the same time against the wall...

... to my count, the 2005 season will actually be Sully\'s 3rd chance to prove he\'s worth something...

... whereas Adrian just got his chance...

shadowdrinker · 04-28-2005, 01:49 AM

Mc Pherson hasn\'t cost anything yet..he\'s not even signed...

If and I stress IF he comes out and falls flat...no loss..not really..I mean..I don\'t expect him to do anything stupid...I am worried about his play...He said he was sorry...and wants to be better..WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?...We have all fallen short of grace in our lives...luckily for us..we didn\'t have to answer to a national media about it...

Let him answer for HIS OWN PAST ...I doubt playing good football will make him a better person...

Jon Sullivan has had every chance in the world to be a superstar...He has the money ALLREADY FOR A JOB HE NEVER DID...

Clearly..there is NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THESE TWO...

Your right about one thing Billy..it\'s not only Sully\'s fault..but..It\'s not only Loomis\' fault either...

[Edited on 28/4/2005 by shadowdrinker]

Zulu--King · 04-28-2005, 02:16 AM

My problem with Sullen isn\'t that he didn\'t live up to expectations. His lax and non-commital attitude rubs against a team looking for a fresh start. He also created bad feelings from others who thought they could do better, but weren\'t allow to play for a long time.

That leads to players not believing in the system. Why should they prepare for games, when the 1# pick is gonna start all season, no matter what? Sullen was bumming out the team.

He let the team down, in a position that we desperately needed production. Worse, it seemed he wasn\'t interested in improving for two long years.

At least Ricky would pout when he felt that he wasn\'t appreciated, or that some didn\'t understand that his production was lacking due to various nagging injuries. Sometimes, it was just due to predictable play calling.

What those two have in common, is that they\'re both introverts. They would rather sulk around alone, instead of being part of a team. Sometimes, getting to know your fellow warriors goes a long way towards then understanding what youre going through.

baronm · 04-28-2005, 08:57 AM

That\'s easy. Sully did what he did while under contract with the Saints, McPhereson didn\'t. I give a **** what he did in college.

:shrug:

excatly-not to mention-sully has repeated this behavior now for what-two years? even if it\'s one--macpherson is the new kid in town..need I say more.

04-27-2005, 09:35 PM	#51
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Riddle me this:? I think he deserves to be cut immediately, but I don\'t think it\'s in the team\'s best interest because of what was paid to get him and what\'s been paid to him since. I know you can find a quote on me saying we should bring him to camp work his tail off and cut him then if he\'s not any better.

04-27-2005, 09:43 PM	#52
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Riddle me this:? I know I said I wish we COULD curt him right now, but right in line with Scotty, it is not in the best interest of the team, at this point. One more year like last year and I really will not care if it\'s in our best interest or not.

04-27-2005, 09:43 PM	#53
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Riddle me this:? I\'ll just throw in my .02 to get to the crux of what Billy seems to be concerned about. 1. Sullivan was drafted to come in, start and be our franchise DT. He was paid as a top 10 pick, and continues to be paid according to his top 10 contract. He has failed so miserably at this that he is not even dressing out for games. It\'s hard for anyone to embrace a steaming, stinking, lazy pile of monkeycrap. (or monkey-carp, if you will) 2. According to some, AB is the greatest QB this team will ever have and will be the franchise QB for years to come. 3. If that is true, then McPherson was drafted in the 5th round as a project for depth. So, if he even makes it onto the team after camp, he will at best be the #2 QB but will most likely be trying to beat out Kingsbury or Finlan for the #3 spot. 4. Pretty easy to embrace a guy whose legal/ethical/moral failings don\'t cost much money, may not even make it onto the final roster, realizes that what he did was wrong, is trying to make things right and treasures having the chance to even come to camp. It is a night and day difference of attitude from the top 6 pick who doesn\'t care whether he plays or not, since he\'s still getting paid. 5. Bottom line--some of us admire that McPherson seems to be trying to make a change and realizes how lucky he is to have a chance to make a living playing a game we all love. For me, I like and respect his attitude. Now I can\'t peer into the guy\'s soul and tell you what he\'s really thinking/feeling/whatever, but I like what I\'m hearing. 6. By the way, AB will most likely be the starter for this team. Being the starter doesn\'t make me love him any more either. Seems like this thread is all about loving Brooks by attacking a kid who made some dumb decisions and has owned up to them like a man and accepted the consequences like a man. I think what McPherson is doing now isn\'t something to be sneered at, no matter what you think of AB.
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04-27-2005, 09:45 PM	#54
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Riddle me this:? I think he deserves to be cut immediately, but I don\'t think it\'s in the team\'s best interest because of what was paid to get him and what\'s been paid to him since. I know you can find a quote on me saying we should bring him to camp work his tail off and cut him then if he\'s not any better. For what Sullivan has done, he probably deserves to get shipped out of town. This guys gets paid a fortune to play football and he shows no desire to work hard and help a struggling defense get better. I guess it all depends on how forgiving the \"individual\" fan is. Sully made a promise to the coaches and the fans. Fine! I\'m willing to take the man at his word and wait to see what happens. There\'s too much upside (as far as I\'m concerned) and too much downside (salary-cap) to cut Sully. It\'s a no-brainer for me as far as what\'s in the best interest of the team. I suppose I\'m just a little more forgiving than some?!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-27-2005, 09:58 PM	#55
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Riddle me this:? Ok, but, back to the original point. If you\'re more forgiving than some, why can you forgive Sully and not McPherson? One has only made hollow promises. The other has a two year track record of correcting his off-field issues. [Edited on 28/4/2005 by ScottyRo]

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04-27-2005, 11:37 PM	#56
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Riddle me this:? \"I told the Saints that I\'m willing to put a clause in my contract that if the gambling ever came up, or if I was caught for gambling, that I would give back the money that I earned or whatever because that\'s not me.\" This statement, plus a two year track record put him several notches above Sullivan. Now if Sullivan busts his rear, gets in shape and plays lights out for a year, I\'d be behind him 100%. But he\'s done nothing to indicate he will, except talk. To coin an annoying phrase... Sullivan is talking the talk, McPherson is walking the walk. I see a huge difference, as of right now.

04-28-2005, 12:30 AM	#57
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Riddle me this:? ... threads like this one remind me of taking my kid to the ice cream parlor... they had a gumball machine filled with bouncy balls... my kid got 3-4 every time, and when we got back home, he\'d take them out of his pocket, and throw them all at the same time against the wall... ... to my count, the 2005 season will actually be Sully\'s 3rd chance to prove he\'s worth something... ... whereas Adrian just got his chance...

04-28-2005, 01:49 AM	#58
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Riddle me this:? Mc Pherson hasn\'t cost anything yet..he\'s not even signed... If and I stress IF he comes out and falls flat...no loss..not really..I mean..I don\'t expect him to do anything stupid...I am worried about his play...He said he was sorry...and wants to be better..WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?...We have all fallen short of grace in our lives...luckily for us..we didn\'t have to answer to a national media about it... Let him answer for HIS OWN PAST ...I doubt playing good football will make him a better person... Jon Sullivan has had every chance in the world to be a superstar...He has the money ALLREADY FOR A JOB HE NEVER DID... Clearly..there is NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THESE TWO... Your right about one thing Billy..it\'s not only Sully\'s fault..but..It\'s not only Loomis\' fault either... [Edited on 28/4/2005 by shadowdrinker]
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

04-28-2005, 02:16 AM	#59
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Riddle me this:? My problem with Sullen isn\'t that he didn\'t live up to expectations. His lax and non-commital attitude rubs against a team looking for a fresh start. He also created bad feelings from others who thought they could do better, but weren\'t allow to play for a long time. That leads to players not believing in the system. Why should they prepare for games, when the 1# pick is gonna start all season, no matter what? Sullen was bumming out the team. He let the team down, in a position that we desperately needed production. Worse, it seemed he wasn\'t interested in improving for two long years. At least Ricky would pout when he felt that he wasn\'t appreciated, or that some didn\'t understand that his production was lacking due to various nagging injuries. Sometimes, it was just due to predictable play calling. What those two have in common, is that they\'re both introverts. They would rather sulk around alone, instead of being part of a team. Sometimes, getting to know your fellow warriors goes a long way towards then understanding what youre going through.
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	<html> <center> http://community.webtv.net/ZULU--KIN...s/importD1.jpg </center> </html>

04-28-2005, 08:57 AM	#60
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Riddle me this:? That\'s easy. Sully did what he did while under contract with the Saints, McPhereson didn\'t. I give a **** what he did in college. :shrug: excatly-not to mention-sully has repeated this behavior now for what-two years? even if it\'s one--macpherson is the new kid in town..need I say more.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954