Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip)

Danno · 05-02-2005, 12:11 PM

And Danno, what\'s your problem with Deuce? You usually have good stuff to say, but good grief, I don\'t see where Duece has been anything but solid here.

I\'ve stated this in many posts already. I realistically think Deuce is a better back than Dalton Hilliard. But his entire body of work, adjusting for era differences is not there with Dalton yet. Its my own personal opinion. If Deuce has another 1500 yard season I\'ll change my mind, no question.
My main problem with Deuce is that he hasn\'t taken off-season conditioning seriously enough, which leads to injuries, which lead to sub-par performances (for Deuce), which lead to 8 zillion excuses by way too many fans that if it weren\'t for injuries he\'d be the best ever.
Well I think the injuries (again, my opinion) are directly related to his off-season conditioning habits. He\'s looked slower, less shifty, and less decisive than he has in the past. And all I hear are excuses for him, and it annoys me. And now it looks like I\'m not the only one who\'s removed the Deuce-worship glasses.

You\'re probably right, he\'s the best RB this franchise has had, but he could be better, much better. But being the Saints it doesn\'t surprise me that fans settle for less. So I\'ll admit I sometimes over-stress his faults, mainly due to my petty annoyances with fans who seem to give him a free pass while hammering every other player on this team with their nuclear pessimism bombs.

mutineer10 · 05-02-2005, 12:16 PM

If the O-line lives up to the hype, Deuce will be back in form this season. A road grating O-line and Mike Karney pounding the riff-raff outta the gaps could mean big things for Deuce.

It\'s fair to say he needs to work harder at his conditioning, but I can\'t remember if Deuce showed up to camp with the extra pounds or if he added them while injured. In any event, I\'m looking forward to a healthy Deuce in the backfield this season.

As for Hilliard, I liked him, but was never overwhelmingly impressed. He was the best we had in his time, but I can\'t give him the nod over Deuce.

Danno · 05-02-2005, 12:20 PM

Thats my whole point Mutey,
If Deuce came into 2005 in peak physical condition, he\'d be as close to unstoppable as a modern day RB could be.

Even if he\'s just close to peak he\'d be unstoppable. I wanna see that unstoppable Deuce.

yasoon · 05-02-2005, 01:16 PM

Let it be know that I don\'t give Deuce a pass. I acknowledge that he had some rough fumbles (the TB one was especially bad), and that he should be a lean 225-230 instead of pushing 240 like he was this year. He may have thought the extra weight was a good idea so that he could pound the ball better (the same way that I think more beer makes me a better Saints fan). It doesn\'t appear to be that way, and I think deuce will adjust his conditioning accordingly. It was that rare mix of size and speed that caught my eye to begin with. I think the Deuce of 2 years ago takes that Carolina run to the house insead of getting tracked down from behind.

I know early in the year, they showed him on the sidelines and he didn\'t look like his head was in it. I blame some of that on Deuce, but I also think that our genius coaching staff taking their RB out of an offense that he expressly mentioned was his comfort zone was stupid and possibly demotivating. Now, Deuce gets paid to do his job and he should do it, but the coaching move did not help. Again, McCarthy is a clown and I can\'t wait to watch him get Alex Smith smeared into the ground in SF. Saw Mike on the NFL network the other day...not very smart, not very charming...just a dull doofus. He said he was gonna get to work on Alex\'s footwork. I laughed out loud

saintswhodi · 05-02-2005, 01:22 PM

I know early in the year, they showed him on the sidelines and he didn\'t look like his head was in it. I blame some of that on Deuce, but I also think that our genius coaching staff taking their RB out of an offense that he expressly mentioned was his comfort zone was stupid and possibly demotivating. Now, Deuce gets paid to do his job and he should do it, but the coaching move did not help.

Exactly my feelings on Deuce last season yas. When a player makes it known publically he does not like an offense that is being installed, and he is the star of that offense, and all the OC has to say is \"Well, Deuce is our star, but I am sure he will come to love this new offense,\" I can see why he wouldn\'t have put forth hsi best effort. Doesn\'t excuse it, but ot could explain it. With a commitment to running from everyone down this season, and Deuce\'s own comments about drafting Brown, I thinkw e will see a different Deuce this year.

GumboBC · 05-02-2005, 01:29 PM

It used to really get to me when I thought folks were using double-standards.

Some folks like to trash certain players for some remark they made to the media. But, players like Joe Horn are excused from ANY remark they ever makes because ... well .... because some folks just like Joe Horn.

And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many.

Thankfully, I don\'t give a crap anymore. I could care less if someone is using double-standards.

PS -- Before anyone gets all worked up ... don\'t bother ... I don\'t care.

[Edited on 2/5/2005 by GumboBC]

saintswhodi · 05-02-2005, 01:34 PM

And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many

Wow. Thank God I said this:

Doesn\'t excuse it, but ot could explain it.

or I would have thought this last post was about me.

yasoon · 05-02-2005, 01:56 PM

Let it be know that I don\'t give Deuce a pass. I acknowledge that he had some rough fumbles (the TB one was especially bad), and that he should be a lean 225-230 instead of pushing 240 like he was this year.

Me too whodi....

Gumbo...now you try......

\"I realize that AB didn\'t know his a$$ from a can of pork and beans in the Tampa game until there were 3 minutes left, but.....\"

or

\"I know that most QBs don\'t throw laterals to their linemen, but....\"

We were actually just discussing the pros and cons of Deuce. I love Deuce, but I expect more out of him than we got in \'04. Because I know he\'s got it in him.

Trust me, life will be better if you just start dissing AB. Give it a shot....it\'s fun

saintswhodi · 05-02-2005, 02:00 PM

So if it wasn\'t you yas, and wasn\'t me, who could it have been? Gumbo? Who are these folks using double standards just so we can clear up any confusion?

mutineer10 · 05-02-2005, 02:23 PM

And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many.

I\'m not sure Deuce \"gave up.\"

Sure, he mentioned his displeasure with the 2 TE set (which most of us agree was disastrous) but it\'s not like he refused to take the field. He got out there and - within six quarters of inadequate blocking and DT\'s / LB\'s mobbing him - suffered his first serious injury. He returned from the injury earlier than expected - even earlier than approved - and still managed to churn out a 1,000-yard season in spite of how often we were forced to pass.

I want him to show up in shape and post the best season of his career, and I think with several factors (upgraded O-line, a return to the I-form and Pro-set formations, Karney in his second year) he can.

Something I\'m sure most of us have noticed about Deuce is how he\'ll often \"lead\" his lead blocker ... by that I mean he\'ll grab a FB or TE by the collar and sorta guide them toward the tackler he wants them to block. Sounds rotten in theory, but it has worked well for him in the past. That\'s one of the reasons I think the I-form and Pro-sets are simply better for Deuce.

I still dunno about saying he \"gave up\" last season, I really don\'t see that. What did you mean, Gumbo?

[Edited on 2/5/2005 by mutineer10]

05-02-2005, 12:11 PM	#31
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) And Danno, what\'s your problem with Deuce? You usually have good stuff to say, but good grief, I don\'t see where Duece has been anything but solid here. I\'ve stated this in many posts already. I realistically think Deuce is a better back than Dalton Hilliard. But his entire body of work, adjusting for era differences is not there with Dalton yet. Its my own personal opinion. If Deuce has another 1500 yard season I\'ll change my mind, no question. My main problem with Deuce is that he hasn\'t taken off-season conditioning seriously enough, which leads to injuries, which lead to sub-par performances (for Deuce), which lead to 8 zillion excuses by way too many fans that if it weren\'t for injuries he\'d be the best ever. Well I think the injuries (again, my opinion) are directly related to his off-season conditioning habits. He\'s looked slower, less shifty, and less decisive than he has in the past. And all I hear are excuses for him, and it annoys me. And now it looks like I\'m not the only one who\'s removed the Deuce-worship glasses. You\'re probably right, he\'s the best RB this franchise has had, but he could be better, much better. But being the Saints it doesn\'t surprise me that fans settle for less. So I\'ll admit I sometimes over-stress his faults, mainly due to my petty annoyances with fans who seem to give him a free pass while hammering every other player on this team with their nuclear pessimism bombs.

05-02-2005, 12:16 PM	#32
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) If the O-line lives up to the hype, Deuce will be back in form this season. A road grating O-line and Mike Karney pounding the riff-raff outta the gaps could mean big things for Deuce. It\'s fair to say he needs to work harder at his conditioning, but I can\'t remember if Deuce showed up to camp with the extra pounds or if he added them while injured. In any event, I\'m looking forward to a healthy Deuce in the backfield this season. As for Hilliard, I liked him, but was never overwhelmingly impressed. He was the best we had in his time, but I can\'t give him the nod over Deuce.

05-02-2005, 12:20 PM	#33
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) Thats my whole point Mutey, If Deuce came into 2005 in peak physical condition, he\'d be as close to unstoppable as a modern day RB could be. Even if he\'s just close to peak he\'d be unstoppable. I wanna see that unstoppable Deuce.

05-02-2005, 01:16 PM	#34
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) Let it be know that I don\'t give Deuce a pass. I acknowledge that he had some rough fumbles (the TB one was especially bad), and that he should be a lean 225-230 instead of pushing 240 like he was this year. He may have thought the extra weight was a good idea so that he could pound the ball better (the same way that I think more beer makes me a better Saints fan). It doesn\'t appear to be that way, and I think deuce will adjust his conditioning accordingly. It was that rare mix of size and speed that caught my eye to begin with. I think the Deuce of 2 years ago takes that Carolina run to the house insead of getting tracked down from behind. I know early in the year, they showed him on the sidelines and he didn\'t look like his head was in it. I blame some of that on Deuce, but I also think that our genius coaching staff taking their RB out of an offense that he expressly mentioned was his comfort zone was stupid and possibly demotivating. Now, Deuce gets paid to do his job and he should do it, but the coaching move did not help. Again, McCarthy is a clown and I can\'t wait to watch him get Alex Smith smeared into the ground in SF. Saw Mike on the NFL network the other day...not very smart, not very charming...just a dull doofus. He said he was gonna get to work on Alex\'s footwork. I laughed out loud
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-02-2005, 01:22 PM	#35
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) I know early in the year, they showed him on the sidelines and he didn\'t look like his head was in it. I blame some of that on Deuce, but I also think that our genius coaching staff taking their RB out of an offense that he expressly mentioned was his comfort zone was stupid and possibly demotivating. Now, Deuce gets paid to do his job and he should do it, but the coaching move did not help. Exactly my feelings on Deuce last season yas. When a player makes it known publically he does not like an offense that is being installed, and he is the star of that offense, and all the OC has to say is \"Well, Deuce is our star, but I am sure he will come to love this new offense,\" I can see why he wouldn\'t have put forth hsi best effort. Doesn\'t excuse it, but ot could explain it. With a commitment to running from everyone down this season, and Deuce\'s own comments about drafting Brown, I thinkw e will see a different Deuce this year.

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05-02-2005, 01:29 PM	#36
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) It used to really get to me when I thought folks were using double-standards. Some folks like to trash certain players for some remark they made to the media. But, players like Joe Horn are excused from ANY remark they ever makes because ... well .... because some folks just like Joe Horn. And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many. Thankfully, I don\'t give a crap anymore. I could care less if someone is using double-standards. PS -- Before anyone gets all worked up ... don\'t bother ... I don\'t care. [Edited on 2/5/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-02-2005, 01:34 PM	#37
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many Wow. Thank God I said this: Doesn\'t excuse it, but ot could explain it. or I would have thought this last post was about me.

05-02-2005, 01:56 PM	#38
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) Let it be know that I don\'t give Deuce a pass. I acknowledge that he had some rough fumbles (the TB one was especially bad), and that he should be a lean 225-230 instead of pushing 240 like he was this year. Me too whodi.... Gumbo...now you try...... \"I realize that AB didn\'t know his a$$ from a can of pork and beans in the Tampa game until there were 3 minutes left, but.....\" or \"I know that most QBs don\'t throw laterals to their linemen, but....\" We were actually just discussing the pros and cons of Deuce. I love Deuce, but I expect more out of him than we got in \'04. Because I know he\'s got it in him. Trust me, life will be better if you just start dissing AB. Give it a shot....it\'s fun
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-02-2005, 02:00 PM	#39
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) So if it wasn\'t you yas, and wasn\'t me, who could it have been? Gumbo? Who are these folks using double standards just so we can clear up any confusion?

05-02-2005, 02:23 PM	#40
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Deuce better than Dalton Hillard? (Video Clip) And Deuce gets excused for giving up because ... ??? Hell, I don\'t know!! But he seems to get a free-pass from many. Not all, but many. I\'m not sure Deuce \"gave up.\" Sure, he mentioned his displeasure with the 2 TE set (which most of us agree was disastrous) but it\'s not like he refused to take the field. He got out there and - within six quarters of inadequate blocking and DT\'s / LB\'s mobbing him - suffered his first serious injury. He returned from the injury earlier than expected - even earlier than approved - and still managed to churn out a 1,000-yard season in spite of how often we were forced to pass. I want him to show up in shape and post the best season of his career, and I think with several factors (upgraded O-line, a return to the I-form and Pro-set formations, Karney in his second year) he can. Something I\'m sure most of us have noticed about Deuce is how he\'ll often \"lead\" his lead blocker ... by that I mean he\'ll grab a FB or TE by the collar and sorta guide them toward the tackler he wants them to block. Sounds rotten in theory, but it has worked well for him in the past. That\'s one of the reasons I think the I-form and Pro-sets are simply better for Deuce. I still dunno about saying he \"gave up\" last season, I really don\'t see that. What did you mean, Gumbo? [Edited on 2/5/2005 by mutineer10]