2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Just to piggy back on this ....

Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball.

I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here.

Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L.

Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards.

And who says they didn't have to pass the ball? If the defensive looks showed that a running play had little or no chance of success what do you gain by running it? Atlanta was daring the Saints to pass the ball. If Ginn and Smith had made a few catches on balls thrown right into their hands then maybe we could have had more opportunities to actually run the ball. As I mentioned earlier, Payton's offense has always been one where the pass set up the run, not the other way around. We are not built to pound the ball, especially with a seemingly crippled offensive line that game.

K Major · 11-14-2019, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards.

5 carries all game for a volume back. That's crazy.

No excuses. Get it done vs Tampa.

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

5 carries all game for a volume back. That's crazy.

No excuses. Get it done vs Tampa.

If they thought a run would have worked they would have gone with the run. You know they didn't go into the game expecting to run the ball with your backs only nine times. But the defense dictates the offense. The run wasn't working. Picking up two yards per carry (Murray) will lead to three and out every time. If you come to the line and the defense is set to stop the run the smart thing is to switch to the pass version. Of course, it helps if the line can hold a block and the receiver could actually catch the ball.

Normally the line holds long enough for Brees to find the open man. That was not the case this Sunday.

blackangold · 11-14-2019, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Read this post:

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357

It will explain.

I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game.

Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts:
ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR.

It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week...

This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success.

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game.

Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts:
ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR.

It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week...

This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success.

That 4.7 yards per carry included an 11 yarder from Taysom Hill and five yards from Ginn. Kamara's longest carry (8 yards) and Murray's longest run (6 yards) came on back to back plays in the first quarter. Looking at the game log I see that the running game was replaced by a number of short passes, which have always been an extension of the run game for the Saints offense. Those short passes were no more effective than the running game.

The Falcons offense was stopped on several occasions only to be bailed out on those defensive hands to the face penalties. They were afforded the ability to stick to the run and run the clock with the lead.

K Major · 11-14-2019, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

That 4.7 yards per carry included an 11 yarder from Taysom Hill and five yards from Ginn. Kamara's longest carry (8 yards) and Murray's longest run (6 yards) came on back to back plays in the first quarter. Looking at the game log I see that the running game was replaced by a number of short passes, which have always been an extension of the run game for the Saints offense. Those short passes were no more effective than the running game.

Tampa D is currently ranked #1 vs the run.

Does that mean the game plan is to throw it 40 + times on Sunday?

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Tampa D is currently ranked #1 vs the run.

Does that mean the game plan is to throw it 40 + times on Sunday?

Given the fact that Tampa's D is currently ranked #32 versus the pass it would make sense.

K Major · 11-14-2019, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Given the fact that Tampa's D is currently ranked #32 versus the pass it would make sense.

That's not really saying a whole lot given the fact that Atlanta was ranked 26th against the pass heading into last week's game.

Saints had 9 points last week.

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

That's not really saying a whole lot given the fact that Atlanta was ranked 26th against the pass heading into last week's game.

Saints had 9 points last week.

I look at that as an anomaly. We know for a fact our elite left tackle was suffering from the flu and now it seems that others on the offensive line may have been affected, as well. Our competent LG breaks his arm 22 snaps into the game. The Falcons came in more focused and motivated for one reason or another. I don't think we can take anything away from that game that tells us what to expect moving forward ... except ... what you have been preaching all along ... we need someone other than Thomas that can be trusted to make plays and catch the ball at WR. Hopefully Kirkwood can be that person. Or Dez, perhaps.

rezburna · 11-14-2019, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I look at that as an anomaly. We know for a fact our elite left tackle was suffering from the flu and now it seems that others on the offensive line may have been affected, as well. Our competent LG breaks his arm 22 snaps into the game. The Falcons came in more focused and motivated for one reason or another. I don't think we can take anything away from that game that tells us what to expect moving forward ... except ... what you have been preaching all along ... we need someone other than Thomas that can be trusted to make plays and catch the ball at WR. Hopefully Kirkwood can be that person. Or Dez, perhaps.

I want Dez, OG.

11-14-2019, 10:40 AM	#781
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,222	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major Just to piggy back on this .... Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball. I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here. Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L. Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards. And who says they didn't have to pass the ball? If the defensive looks showed that a running play had little or no chance of success what do you gain by running it? Atlanta was daring the Saints to pass the ball. If Ginn and Smith had made a few catches on balls thrown right into their hands then maybe we could have had more opportunities to actually run the ball. As I mentioned earlier, Payton's offense has always been one where the pass set up the run, not the other way around. We are not built to pound the ball, especially with a seemingly crippled offensive line that game.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-14-2019, 10:47 AM	#782
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards. 5 carries all game for a volume back. That's crazy. No excuses. Get it done vs Tampa.

11-14-2019, 10:56 AM	#783
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,222	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major 5 carries all game for a volume back. That's crazy. No excuses. Get it done vs Tampa. If they thought a run would have worked they would have gone with the run. You know they didn't go into the game expecting to run the ball with your backs only nine times. But the defense dictates the offense. The run wasn't working. Picking up two yards per carry (Murray) will lead to three and out every time. If you come to the line and the defense is set to stop the run the smart thing is to switch to the pass version. Of course, it helps if the line can hold a block and the receiver could actually catch the ball. Normally the line holds long enough for Brees to find the open man. That was not the case this Sunday.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-14-2019, 12:24 PM	#784
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Read this post: http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357 It will explain. I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game. Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts: ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR. It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week... This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

11-14-2019, 02:29 PM	#785
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,222	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by blackangold I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game. Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts: ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR. It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week... This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success. That 4.7 yards per carry included an 11 yarder from Taysom Hill and five yards from Ginn. Kamara's longest carry (8 yards) and Murray's longest run (6 yards) came on back to back plays in the first quarter. Looking at the game log I see that the running game was replaced by a number of short passes, which have always been an extension of the run game for the Saints offense. Those short passes were no more effective than the running game. The Falcons offense was stopped on several occasions only to be bailed out on those defensive hands to the face penalties. They were afforded the ability to stick to the run and run the clock with the lead.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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11-14-2019, 03:45 PM	#786
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido That 4.7 yards per carry included an 11 yarder from Taysom Hill and five yards from Ginn. Kamara's longest carry (8 yards) and Murray's longest run (6 yards) came on back to back plays in the first quarter. Looking at the game log I see that the running game was replaced by a number of short passes, which have always been an extension of the run game for the Saints offense. Those short passes were no more effective than the running game. Tampa D is currently ranked #1 vs the run. Does that mean the game plan is to throw it 40 + times on Sunday?

11-14-2019, 03:53 PM	#787
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,222	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major Tampa D is currently ranked #1 vs the run. Does that mean the game plan is to throw it 40 + times on Sunday? Given the fact that Tampa's D is currently ranked #32 versus the pass it would make sense.

11-14-2019, 04:20 PM	#788
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Given the fact that Tampa's D is currently ranked #32 versus the pass it would make sense. That's not really saying a whole lot given the fact that Atlanta was ranked 26th against the pass heading into last week's game. Saints had 9 points last week. Rsanders24 and ChrisXVI like this.

11-14-2019, 04:52 PM	#789
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,222	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major That's not really saying a whole lot given the fact that Atlanta was ranked 26th against the pass heading into last week's game. Saints had 9 points last week. I look at that as an anomaly. We know for a fact our elite left tackle was suffering from the flu and now it seems that others on the offensive line may have been affected, as well. Our competent LG breaks his arm 22 snaps into the game. The Falcons came in more focused and motivated for one reason or another. I don't think we can take anything away from that game that tells us what to expect moving forward ... except ... what you have been preaching all along ... we need someone other than Thomas that can be trusted to make plays and catch the ball at WR. Hopefully Kirkwood can be that person. Or Dez, perhaps.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-14-2019, 05:15 PM	#790
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I look at that as an anomaly. We know for a fact our elite left tackle was suffering from the flu and now it seems that others on the offensive line may have been affected, as well. Our competent LG breaks his arm 22 snaps into the game. The Falcons came in more focused and motivated for one reason or another. I don't think we can take anything away from that game that tells us what to expect moving forward ... except ... what you have been preaching all along ... we need someone other than Thomas that can be trusted to make plays and catch the ball at WR. Hopefully Kirkwood can be that person. Or Dez, perhaps. I want Dez, OG.

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