2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

They didn't sell out to stop the run, we never tried running the ball. We had 10 rushing attempts all game and averaged more than 4ypc... it was a coaching decision to not run the ball. I have heard the excuse that we were behind so it forced us to pass, but I discount that, we were within 1 score until the 4th QTR.

Read this post:

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357

It will explain.

blackangold · 11-14-2019, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Read this post:

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357

It will explain.

I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game.

Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts:
ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR.

It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week...

This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success.

K Major · 11-14-2019, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

They didn't sell out to stop the run, we never tried running the ball. We had 10 rushing attempts all game and averaged more than 4ypc... it was a coaching decision to not run the ball. I have heard the excuse that we were behind so it forced us to pass, but I discount that, we were within 1 score until the 4th QTR.

Just to piggy back on this ....

Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball.

I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here.

Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L.

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Just to piggy back on this ....

Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball.

I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here.

Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L.

Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards.

And who says they didn't have to pass the ball? If the defensive looks showed that a running play had little or no chance of success what do you gain by running it? Atlanta was daring the Saints to pass the ball. If Ginn and Smith had made a few catches on balls thrown right into their hands then maybe we could have had more opportunities to actually run the ball. As I mentioned earlier, Payton's offense has always been one where the pass set up the run, not the other way around. We are not built to pound the ball, especially with a seemingly crippled offensive line that game.

K Major · 11-14-2019, 09:01 AM

Can't Guard Mike is getting over 60% of the targets thus far. That is an incredible, mind boggling number to me.

What other team in the league has that type of disparity ??

Other guys must step up vs Tampa. I hope the emphasis all week was route running. IMO we'll never see the O line play that poorly in a game. We're better than that.

Utah_Saint · 11-14-2019, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Can't Guard Mike is getting over 60% of the targets thus far. That is an incredible, mind boggling number to me.

What other team in the league has that type of disparity ??

Other guys must step up vs Tampa. I hope the emphasis all week was route running. IMO we'll never see the O line play that poorly in a game. We're better than that.

Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea.

CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can.

And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often.

Just my opinion.

jeanpierre · 11-14-2019, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea.

CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can.

And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often.

Just my opinion.

Not speaking for KMajor, but I do believe our QBs completion rate and our 3rd Down conversion rate, as well as our Red Zone Efficiency are not what they could be because of a lack of Total Receiving Production...

You're absolutely right about @CantGuardMike's efficiency (have had him in nearly every fantasy team in every league the past two years, so I follow him closely), even he's not open on every Saints Offensive Snap...

And I dare say he'd probably have more Big Plays if he wasn't being double, tripled-teamed as he is; and Payton has pulled the best compensated, and best WR in the NFL on several red zone trips...

Ginn can't run a route to save his life, and he's dropping easy ones now...

Kirkwood went down like a stealth fighter, and I'm still not sure of his injury...

Tre'Quan has flashed, rarely, and is looking more like a bust every week...

Jared Cook should be on a milk carton, and I don't see him turning it around...

Josh Hill has made some fine plays, and yet he still can't get a larger role from Payton...

And I totally agree about running the ball more...

But Payton seems to have been slow to trusting Murray with more opportunities - this really p*sses me off because we let groomed, developed, known value in Ingram go for less when we had terrific balance??

K Major · 11-14-2019, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea.

CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can.

And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often.

Just my opinion.

As long as MT13 is healthy, we are fine... If he missed ANY TIME AT ALL... we pretty much lose all of our production at the Wide Receiver position. That is unacceptable, and is way beyond time we addressed it. We'd become a better team with a #2.

Smith and Kirkwood are not reliable based on history of injuries.

Playoff time comes, def coordinators will take away Mike and that's a fact. See NFCCG with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line of last year.

K Major · 11-18-2019, 10:49 AM

62 - Nick Easton (FA 2019)

With Andrus Peat out the next month + (6-8 weeks) or so this will be a great audition for Nick. He already has one solid performance against a stout Tampa Bay run D under his belt.

jeanpierre · 11-18-2019, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

62 - Nick Easton (FA 2019)

With Andrus Peat out the next month + (6-8 weeks) or so this will be a great audition for Nick. He already has one solid performance against a stout Tampa Bay run D under his belt.

You don't say...

11-14-2019, 09:29 AM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by blackangold They didn't sell out to stop the run, we never tried running the ball. We had 10 rushing attempts all game and averaged more than 4ypc... it was a coaching decision to not run the ball. I have heard the excuse that we were behind so it forced us to pass, but I discount that, we were within 1 score until the 4th QTR. Read this post: http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357 It will explain.

11-14-2019, 11:24 AM	#2
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Read this post: http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post867357 It will explain. I understand and agree with the premise, but we were having success running the ball at 4.7 ypc, AK was getting 6 yards a pop. It was a coaching call that was not dictated by the ATL defense, and with a banged up or sick offensive line we should have put an emphasis on the run game. Edit, as you have addressed it in other posts: ATL ran the ball less effectively, their top backs averaging 3.8 and 3.1 YPC, but they stuck with the running game and wore our defense down going into the 4th QTR. It felt like we swapped gameplans with ATL for one week... This has been a run first team for the last 3 seasons and it needs to continue if we are going to have success.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

11-14-2019, 09:31 AM	#3
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by blackangold They didn't sell out to stop the run, we never tried running the ball. We had 10 rushing attempts all game and averaged more than 4ypc... it was a coaching decision to not run the ball. I have heard the excuse that we were behind so it forced us to pass, but I discount that, we were within 1 score until the 4th QTR. Just to piggy back on this .... Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball. I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here. Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L.

11-14-2019, 09:40 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major Just to piggy back on this .... Latavius has had 2 games against good defenses where he's had over 120 yards of total offense yet in the ATL game, he rarely touched the ball. I'm not really sure what Coach was trying to prove here. Passing the ball 40+ times when you don't have to was asking for a L. Murray had more rush attempts than any other Saint in the game. He had five carries for 12 yards. Kamara had four attempts for 24 yards with eight of those coming on one play. Taysom had one attempt for 11 yards and Ginn had one carry for five yards. And who says they didn't have to pass the ball? If the defensive looks showed that a running play had little or no chance of success what do you gain by running it? Atlanta was daring the Saints to pass the ball. If Ginn and Smith had made a few catches on balls thrown right into their hands then maybe we could have had more opportunities to actually run the ball. As I mentioned earlier, Payton's offense has always been one where the pass set up the run, not the other way around. We are not built to pound the ball, especially with a seemingly crippled offensive line that game.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-14-2019, 09:01 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Can't Guard Mike is getting over 60% of the targets thus far. That is an incredible, mind boggling number to me. What other team in the league has that type of disparity ?? Other guys must step up vs Tampa. I hope the emphasis all week was route running. IMO we'll never see the O line play that poorly in a game. We're better than that.

11-14-2019, 07:21 PM	#6
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major Can't Guard Mike is getting over 60% of the targets thus far. That is an incredible, mind boggling number to me. What other team in the league has that type of disparity ?? Other guys must step up vs Tampa. I hope the emphasis all week was route running. IMO we'll never see the O line play that poorly in a game. We're better than that. Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea. CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can. And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often. Just my opinion.

11-14-2019, 07:41 PM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea. CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can. And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often. Just my opinion. Not speaking for KMajor, but I do believe our QBs completion rate and our 3rd Down conversion rate, as well as our Red Zone Efficiency are not what they could be because of a lack of Total Receiving Production... You're absolutely right about @CantGuardMike's efficiency (have had him in nearly every fantasy team in every league the past two years, so I follow him closely), even he's not open on every Saints Offensive Snap... And I dare say he'd probably have more Big Plays if he wasn't being double, tripled-teamed as he is; and Payton has pulled the best compensated, and best WR in the NFL on several red zone trips... Ginn can't run a route to save his life, and he's dropping easy ones now... Kirkwood went down like a stealth fighter, and I'm still not sure of his injury... Tre'Quan has flashed, rarely, and is looking more like a bust every week... Jared Cook should be on a milk carton, and I don't see him turning it around... Josh Hill has made some fine plays, and yet he still can't get a larger role from Payton... And I totally agree about running the ball more... But Payton seems to have been slow to trusting Murray with more opportunities - this really p*sses me off because we let groomed, developed, known value in Ingram go for less when we had terrific balance??
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

11-14-2019, 08:14 PM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Are you proposing we throw the ball more than we do now or do we take passes away from Thomas and give them to the young guys? Cause I can't say that I agree with either idea. CGM is the best receiver in the NFL right now. He has an 85% completion percentage so he's almost a sure thing every throw. And he has the 2nd highest YAC among wide receivers, 359 yards. We've played some pretty good defenses and nobody's shut him down yet. Just my opinion, but you feed him as much as you can. And I don't think passing more is a good idea. So far this season we're 334 pass/223 rush. I think most of us would agree, they have more success when they're more balanced. I'd like to see Murray and Kamara in the line up together more often. Just my opinion. As long as MT13 is healthy, we are fine... If he missed ANY TIME AT ALL... we pretty much lose all of our production at the Wide Receiver position. That is unacceptable, and is way beyond time we addressed it. We'd become a better team with a #2. Smith and Kirkwood are not reliable based on history of injuries. Playoff time comes, def coordinators will take away Mike and that's a fact. See NFCCG with a trip to the Super Bowl on the line of last year.

11-18-2019, 10:49 AM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook 62 - Nick Easton (FA 2019) With Andrus Peat out the next month + (6-8 weeks) or so this will be a great audition for Nick. He already has one solid performance against a stout Tampa Bay run D under his belt.

11-18-2019, 01:41 PM	#10
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2019 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by K Major 62 - Nick Easton (FA 2019) With Andrus Peat out the next month + (6-8 weeks) or so this will be a great audition for Nick. He already has one solid performance against a stout Tampa Bay run D under his belt. You don't say... Twitter

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