Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever

foreverfan · 09-24-2019, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by SaintSproles

I would never buy that.

He wanted to stay here, he and Kamara truly had an unbreakable bond like actual brothers.

We low balled him, he felt slighted and unfortunately he accepted a deal that wasn't much more than we offered.

It's just a tragedy.

But hey the little money we saved we got Jared Cook #FleenerPartDeux.

What did he get... $500,000? Would anybody leave BlackandGold and return to SaintsReport for $500,000?

lee909 · 09-24-2019, 10:27 PM

I agree with the initial point.

We have gone back to a similar issue we had before a few years back. If Murray is on the field it's likely a run play. It was like that with Ingram and Ivory a few years back, they're on the field it's run, Sproles is a pass play and only when Pierre Thomas was on the field did they wonder. Its like that now with Murray.

blackangold · 09-24-2019, 10:29 PM

Ingram is doing well... Good for him.. Murray is fine, just needs to get his touches.

TheOak · 09-25-2019, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I understand that Ingram's agent threw out a ridiculously high figure and we didn't try to renegotiate. We signed Murray and Ingram fired his agent immediately afterwards. You could tell by his body language that he was deflated about going to the Ravens and wanted to be part of this team moving forward. Ingram didn't quit on us. His agent screwed him. I wish him only the very best.

1. That's not how agents work, they can't/don't operate alone without the consent of the person they are representing,yes they influence the consent but Ingram is no fool. Ingram knew what number was being thrown at the Saint's.

2. In a negotiation if you throw out a ridiculous request, you have already decided which route you are going. The ridiculous request is a passive aggressive "I'll only stay for an offer that I can not refuse"..

3. Ingram sulking and not wanting to leave New Orleans doesn't mean he didn't want to be a featured back and decidedly went somewhere where he could get that.

Not sure why a large percentage of the commenters want to paint someone as evil or greedy... Business is business and some times both parties settle with neither getting what they truly want. The Saints wanted to keep Ingram, Ingram wanted to be a featured back.... those two ideas do not align.

Rugby Saint II · 09-25-2019, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

1. That's not how agents work, they can't/don't operate alone without the consent of the person they are representing,yes they influence the consent but Ingram is no fool. Ingram knew what number was being thrown at the Saint's.

2. In a negotiation if you throw out a ridiculous request, you have already decided which route you are going. The ridiculous request is a passive aggressive "I'll only stay for an offer that I can not refuse"..

3. Ingram sulking and not wanting to leave New Orleans doesn't mean he didn't want to be a featured back and decidedly went somewhere where he could get that.

Not sure why a large percentage of the commenters want to paint someone as evil or greedy... Business is business and some times both parties settle with neither getting what they truly want. The Saints wanted to keep Ingram, Ingram wanted to be a featured back.... those two ideas do not align.

Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him.

There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left.

Danno · 09-25-2019, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him.

There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left.

I don't think he was loved by the fans at all. He endured ridiculous criticism here while he was a Saint. I remember many of us had to defend him and Payton nearly daily. I remeber one play where he was hit by 3 defenders 2 yards in the backfield right at the handoff and a couple posters here (I won't mention your names) yelled "Dammit Ingram". That BS happened frequently.

I think he's probably more loved in Baltimore now than he was when he was here.

WillMacKenzie · 09-25-2019, 03:06 PM

I wasn’t a fan of Ingram until Kamara showed up...then it’s like a switch was flipped. He really grew on me after that

RailBoss · 09-25-2019, 03:12 PM

This may have come back into play at some point..

2018 season and PED suspension

On May 8, 2018, Ingram was suspended for the first four games of the season due to violating the policy on performance-enhancing drugs.[141] He returned in Week 5 and recorded 53 rushing yards and two rushing touchdowns in the 43–19 victory over the Washington Redskins on Monday Night Football.[142] In Week 10 against the Cincinnati Bengals, he had 104 rushing yards, 58 receiving yards, and a receiving touchdown in the 51–14 victory.[143] In Week 11, against the Philadelphia Eagles, he had 103 rushing yards and two rushing touchdowns.[144] Overall, in the 2018 season, Ingram had 645 rushing yards and six rushing touchdowns to go along with 21 receptions for 170 receiving yards and one receiving touchdown.[145] The Saints won the NFC South and had home-field advantage throughout the NFC Playoffs as the #1-seed.[146] In the Divisional Round against the Philadelphia Eagles, Ingram had 53 rushing yards in the 20–14 victory.[147] In the NFC Championship against the Los Angeles Rams, he had 31 rushing yards in the 26–23 overtime loss.[148]

dizzle88 · 09-25-2019, 03:13 PM

You know who would be good to have?

Devine Ozigbo.

TheOak · 09-25-2019, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him.

There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left.

Thanks! I have a much clearer picture now, I didn't realize he jetted his agent after.... (did he? I cant find it anywhere in the news)

This is my take: Mark started to believe his own hype, his agent believed it as well and they both went all in thinking he was irreplaceable. That body language can be seen walking away from every table in Vegas, someone went all in and lost. I will assume he terminated his agent because his agent did what an agent does, hypes you up and goes for big money.

This was Ingram's 3rd contract and he should have known better than to get blind sided.

A little history.. Mark Ingram terminated his agent in 2011 just before the draft. In April of 2018 he replaced his agent again.. Now you say a third time..?

Then there is this... https://www.baltimoreravens.com/vide...hose-baltimore

09-24-2019, 10:17 PM	#21
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Originally Posted by SaintSproles I would never buy that. He wanted to stay here, he and Kamara truly had an unbreakable bond like actual brothers. We low balled him, he felt slighted and unfortunately he accepted a deal that wasn't much more than we offered. It's just a tragedy. But hey the little money we saved we got Jared Cook #FleenerPartDeux. What did he get... $500,000? Would anybody leave BlackandGold and return to SaintsReport for $500,000? skymike and Rugby Saint II like this.
	Last edited by foreverfan; 09-24-2019 at 11:05 PM..

09-24-2019, 10:27 PM	#22
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever I agree with the initial point. We have gone back to a similar issue we had before a few years back. If Murray is on the field it's likely a run play. It was like that with Ingram and Ivory a few years back, they're on the field it's run, Sproles is a pass play and only when Pierre Thomas was on the field did they wonder. Its like that now with Murray.

09-24-2019, 10:29 PM	#23
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Ingram is doing well... Good for him.. Murray is fine, just needs to get his touches. K Major likes this.

09-25-2019, 05:12 AM	#24
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I understand that Ingram's agent threw out a ridiculously high figure and we didn't try to renegotiate. We signed Murray and Ingram fired his agent immediately afterwards. You could tell by his body language that he was deflated about going to the Ravens and wanted to be part of this team moving forward. Ingram didn't quit on us. His agent screwed him. I wish him only the very best. 1. That's not how agents work, they can't/don't operate alone without the consent of the person they are representing,yes they influence the consent but Ingram is no fool. Ingram knew what number was being thrown at the Saint's. 2. In a negotiation if you throw out a ridiculous request, you have already decided which route you are going. The ridiculous request is a passive aggressive "I'll only stay for an offer that I can not refuse".. 3. Ingram sulking and not wanting to leave New Orleans doesn't mean he didn't want to be a featured back and decidedly went somewhere where he could get that. Not sure why a large percentage of the commenters want to paint someone as evil or greedy... Business is business and some times both parties settle with neither getting what they truly want. The Saints wanted to keep Ingram, Ingram wanted to be a featured back.... those two ideas do not align. Danno, SmashMouth and SaintsBro like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-25-2019, 02:02 PM	#25
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Originally Posted by TheOak 1. That's not how agents work, they can't/don't operate alone without the consent of the person they are representing,yes they influence the consent but Ingram is no fool. Ingram knew what number was being thrown at the Saint's. 2. In a negotiation if you throw out a ridiculous request, you have already decided which route you are going. The ridiculous request is a passive aggressive "I'll only stay for an offer that I can not refuse".. 3. Ingram sulking and not wanting to leave New Orleans doesn't mean he didn't want to be a featured back and decidedly went somewhere where he could get that. Not sure why a large percentage of the commenters want to paint someone as evil or greedy... Business is business and some times both parties settle with neither getting what they truly want. The Saints wanted to keep Ingram, Ingram wanted to be a featured back.... those two ideas do not align. Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him. There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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09-25-2019, 02:50 PM	#26
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him. There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left. I don't think he was loved by the fans at all. He endured ridiculous criticism here while he was a Saint. I remember many of us had to defend him and Payton nearly daily. I remeber one play where he was hit by 3 defenders 2 yards in the backfield right at the handoff and a couple posters here (I won't mention your names) yelled "Dammit Ingram". That BS happened frequently. I think he's probably more loved in Baltimore now than he was when he was here.

09-25-2019, 03:06 PM	#27
WillMacKenzie 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,627	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever I wasn’t a fan of Ingram until Kamara showed up...then it’s like a switch was flipped. He really grew on me after that

09-25-2019, 03:12 PM	#28
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever This may have come back into play at some point.. 2018 season and PED suspension On May 8, 2018, Ingram was suspended for the first four games of the season due to violating the policy on performance-enhancing drugs.[141] He returned in Week 5 and recorded 53 rushing yards and two rushing touchdowns in the 43–19 victory over the Washington Redskins on Monday Night Football.[142] In Week 10 against the Cincinnati Bengals, he had 104 rushing yards, 58 receiving yards, and a receiving touchdown in the 51–14 victory.[143] In Week 11, against the Philadelphia Eagles, he had 103 rushing yards and two rushing touchdowns.[144] Overall, in the 2018 season, Ingram had 645 rushing yards and six rushing touchdowns to go along with 21 receptions for 170 receiving yards and one receiving touchdown.[145] The Saints won the NFC South and had home-field advantage throughout the NFC Playoffs as the #1-seed.[146] In the Divisional Round against the Philadelphia Eagles, Ingram had 53 rushing yards in the 20–14 victory.[147] In the NFC Championship against the Los Angeles Rams, he had 31 rushing yards in the 26–23 overtime loss.[148]

09-25-2019, 03:13 PM	#29
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever You know who would be good to have? Devine Ozigbo.

09-25-2019, 04:35 PM	#30
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Losing Ingram was just the dumbest thing we've done as a front office in forever Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Good points Oak. I still believe that Ingram's agent talked him into demanding more money and that he did want to stay in New Orleans. Regardless, he fired his agent immediately after so there were some hard feelings. I followed Roll Tide Mark Ingram throughout his time at Alabama and was delighted that we drafted him. There was a role built for him in New Orleans and he thrived in it. He was huge in the locker room and loved by the fans. It will be difficult for me to believe anything other than his agent screwed him. His body language was that of a broken man when he left. Thanks! I have a much clearer picture now, I didn't realize he jetted his agent after.... (did he? I cant find it anywhere in the news) This is my take: Mark started to believe his own hype, his agent believed it as well and they both went all in thinking he was irreplaceable. That body language can be seen walking away from every table in Vegas, someone went all in and lost. I will assume he terminated his agent because his agent did what an agent does, hypes you up and goes for big money. This was Ingram's 3rd contract and he should have known better than to get blind sided. A little history.. Mark Ingram terminated his agent in 2011 just before the draft. In April of 2018 he replaced his agent again.. Now you say a third time..? Then there is this... https://www.baltimoreravens.com/vide...hose-baltimore Rugby Saint II likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau