Saints: A good offseason?

saintswhodi · 07-30-2005, 06:15 PM

Are you serious? Explain to me how predicting something that has yet to happen is the same as using info already available to make an argument. Please, please PLEASE explain to me how that is remotely the same thing. Then when you do that, MAYBE you can tie a significance to me saying I DON'T CARE TO PREDICT STATS, as opposed to using stats ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a point. Find one thread, ONE, where I PREDICTED someone's EXACT stats or rankings, and how they will come out better than someone else's. Just one. All you will find is posts where I have used STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a difference between two players. But by all means, since you are attempting to make me seem hypocritical, there should be ONE post where I said Player A will rank here next year in stats, while Player B will only rank here and PREDICTED where they will rank exactly. Just one, and your point is proven. I'll be waiting. There's almost 3600 to choose from. All you need is one. I don't even remember all the stuff I have posted and I am damn confident you won't find that.

And isn't Cha Ching the same dude that called you a hater in another thread? Grain of salt..................

CHACHING · 07-30-2005, 06:26 PM

Just keepin it real man........
you're funny...

WhoDat · 07-31-2005, 10:54 PM

So by your own statements then Whodi - you do not think AB is a problem for the Saints. Nor do you believe the defense is a problem. You believe that they WERE problems in the past, but make no claim, assumption, or implication as to how their past performances will affect the team in the future. Is that right? Give me a break. The only reason you use stats is to identify strengths and weaknesses of a player or of the team. And the only reason you do that is to identify areas of need/strength for FUTURE performances. Or is the only reason you come to this board to harp on the past?

saintswhodi · 07-31-2005, 11:05 PM

So first it was that I implied stats are irrelevant, though those words never have been uttered from me in 3700 posts, and now it's I think there are no problems on the team cause I won't pick exact future rankings for a player. Okay.

WhoDat · 07-31-2005, 11:30 PM

You're not putting up much of an argument here Whodi. I'll tell you what - why not clear the air? Tell us all how relevant or irrelevant you think stats are and why you discuss them. Simply to talk, or does your analysis relate in any way shape or form to potential future performances?

For example, did allowing 7.3 points on average in the first quarter of games this season hurt the Saints? If so, do they need to fix that number? Do you think they can improve upon that number? If so, will that do anything for future performace?

Or how about another one. If Joe Horn gets hurt in week 1, will that affect the team? LOL

RockyMountainSaint · 08-01-2005, 04:56 AM

Recommittment to running, fewer reads then take off for AB means
no more just standing in the pocket and then zinging it downfield for Joe to make a diving catch

That is in the words of the Immortal Rick James:"Cold Blooded".
So, Joe was just standing around and when the rest of the offense broke down he was the recipient of "gift" zings down the field from AB?
Please.
Joe's #s may fall off this year with the supposed "run first" philosophy(which I totally agree with).
He WILL block downfield on running plays.
He WILL be the man to go to in play action pass plays.
Joe IS THE MAN!

johnnythesaint · 08-01-2005, 09:39 AM

Joe Horn = 6th in receptions, 8th in total yards, and 10th in TDs......
Donte Stallworth = 18th in receptions, 14th in total yards, and 12th in TDs.

If anybody is still interested in Whodats question.......

saintswhodi · 08-01-2005, 09:55 AM

That's cause there is no argument WhoDat. You're not making any sense. I wouldn't predict EXACTLY where Joe would rank like you wanted, and you pitched a hissy about how you re-read my words and I was saying stats are irrelevant. Which was BS. So then you came back with, well, you are saying we have no problems on the team cause you won't predict EXACT future stats for a player. Huh? What is the point? You can look at a previous year's stats, which ALREADY HAPPENED, and make a determination of how they may be better or worse, or what the team may have done to make them better or worse. That does not mean you have to give an EXACT RANKING for where they will be. If I say the Saints defense should be better than dead last in yards this season, that is not the same as saying the Saints defense will be number 18 in run yards allowed and 14 in passing yards allowed and will be ranked overall at 16 in the league. I would simply say they shouldn't be last. I don't have to make an exact numerical prediction on that to make my feelings known.

Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy.

1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant.
2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player

Should be easy no?

For example, did allowing 7.3 points on average in the first quarter of games this season hurt the Saints? If so, do they need to fix that number? Do you think they can improve upon that number? If so, will that do anything for future performace?

Your question starts with DID, meaning past and already happened. I have been saying this for 8 posts now, I have no problem with discussing stats that have already happened, and you ask a question with that. You can't be for real. Then your second question is a yes or no question, with NO NEED FOR AN EXACT PREDICTION ON WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. Then your third is another yes or no question, with no need for an exact future ranking. And your last question also can be answered without predicting an EXACT FUTURE RANKING. Damn, you killed your own foolishness. Nice job. You asked exactly ZERO questions that required AN EXACT FUTURE RANKING, which was what got this silliness started in the first place. Wow.

[/quote]

WhoDat · 08-01-2005, 10:25 AM

Sure Whodi... whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep well at night.

I'm sure if the Saints go 11-5 and AB has a 52% completion percentage and a 75 QB rating you won't say a word about him... right?

I guess the difference is I really could care less where these players WILL rank in the league if we aren't winning. It's not a matter of worrying about being wrong, it's a matter of not caring. If Joe leads the league in every receiving category, and we are 8-8 or worse and not in the playoffs, who cares? That will just be another notch for a Joe isn't old argument. And rightfully so. It's all about hoping we make some noise this year, screw the small stuff. Where will they rank? I hope they rank 10-6 or better and make the playoffs. Other than that, it doesn't really matter.

I'll expect not to hear any negative talk about any player on the team whatsoever from you this season so long as the Saints have a winning record. That's all that matters, right? Individual stats are irrelevant at that point... LOL

saintswhodi · 08-01-2005, 11:22 AM

So you mean, after all this time, all the capitalizing and emphasizing of words, you STILL have not caught on to the simple concept of PREDICTING STATS, and DISCUSSING STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED? SO you mean to tell me that you do not realize than when the season is over, the stats will be recorded at that point, not guessed at, and thus can be used for a FACTUAL ANALYSIS instead of a Ouija board, pull something out your arse prediction? Still? STILL?

I'm sure if the Saints go 11-5 and AB has a 52% completion percentage and a 75 QB rating you won't say a word about him... right?

So you mean AB's completion percentage and rating will ALREADY BE RECORDED and thus I have no need to GUESS at where they will be? And I would be able to compare them to 32 other starting QBs cause they will also have been RECORDED, PAST TENSE? When the season is over? Brilliant WhoDat. Why didn't I say this 10 times already?

I'll expect not to hear any negative talk about any player on the team whatsoever from you this season so long as the Saints have a winning record. That's all that matters, right? Individual stats are irrelevant at that point... LOL

Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy.

1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant.
2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player

Should be easy no?

07-31-2005, 10:54 PM	#33
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	So by your own statements then Whodi - you do not think AB is a problem for the Saints. Nor do you believe the defense is a problem. You believe that they WERE problems in the past, but make no claim, assumption, or implication as to how their past performances will affect the team in the future. Is that right? Give me a break. The only reason you use stats is to identify strengths and weaknesses of a player or of the team. And the only reason you do that is to identify areas of need/strength for FUTURE performances. Or is the only reason you come to this board to harp on the past?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

07-31-2005, 11:30 PM	#35
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	You're not putting up much of an argument here Whodi. I'll tell you what - why not clear the air? Tell us all how relevant or irrelevant you think stats are and why you discuss them. Simply to talk, or does your analysis relate in any way shape or form to potential future performances? For example, did allowing 7.3 points on average in the first quarter of games this season hurt the Saints? If so, do they need to fix that number? Do you think they can improve upon that number? If so, will that do anything for future performace? Or how about another one. If Joe Horn gets hurt in week 1, will that affect the team? LOL
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

08-01-2005, 04:56 AM	#36
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	Recommittment to running, fewer reads then take off for AB means no more just standing in the pocket and then zinging it downfield for Joe to make a diving catch That is in the words of the Immortal Rick James:"Cold Blooded". So, Joe was just standing around and when the rest of the offense broke down he was the recipient of "gift" zings down the field from AB? Please. Joe's #s may fall off this year with the supposed "run first" philosophy(which I totally agree with). He WILL block downfield on running plays. He WILL be the man to go to in play action pass plays. Joe IS THE MAN!

08-01-2005, 09:39 AM	#37
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Joe Horn = 6th in receptions, 8th in total yards, and 10th in TDs...... Donte Stallworth = 18th in receptions, 14th in total yards, and 12th in TDs. If anybody is still interested in Whodats question.......
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125

08-01-2005, 09:55 AM	#38
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	That's cause there is no argument WhoDat. You're not making any sense. I wouldn't predict EXACTLY where Joe would rank like you wanted, and you pitched a hissy about how you re-read my words and I was saying stats are irrelevant. Which was BS. So then you came back with, well, you are saying we have no problems on the team cause you won't predict EXACT future stats for a player. Huh? What is the point? You can look at a previous year's stats, which ALREADY HAPPENED, and make a determination of how they may be better or worse, or what the team may have done to make them better or worse. That does not mean you have to give an EXACT RANKING for where they will be. If I say the Saints defense should be better than dead last in yards this season, that is not the same as saying the Saints defense will be number 18 in run yards allowed and 14 in passing yards allowed and will be ranked overall at 16 in the league. I would simply say they shouldn't be last. I don't have to make an exact numerical prediction on that to make my feelings known. Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy. 1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant. 2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player Should be easy no? For example, did allowing 7.3 points on average in the first quarter of games this season hurt the Saints? If so, do they need to fix that number? Do you think they can improve upon that number? If so, will that do anything for future performace? Your question starts with DID, meaning past and already happened. I have been saying this for 8 posts now, I have no problem with discussing stats that have already happened, and you ask a question with that. You can't be for real. Then your second question is a yes or no question, with NO NEED FOR AN EXACT PREDICTION ON WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. Then your third is another yes or no question, with no need for an exact future ranking. And your last question also can be answered without predicting an EXACT FUTURE RANKING. Damn, you killed your own foolishness. Nice job. You asked exactly ZERO questions that required AN EXACT FUTURE RANKING, which was what got this silliness started in the first place. Wow. [/quote]

07-30-2005, 06:15 PM	#31
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Are you serious? Explain to me how predicting something that has yet to happen is the same as using info already available to make an argument. Please, please PLEASE explain to me how that is remotely the same thing. Then when you do that, MAYBE you can tie a significance to me saying I DON'T CARE TO PREDICT STATS, as opposed to using stats ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a point. Find one thread, ONE, where I PREDICTED someone's EXACT stats or rankings, and how they will come out better than someone else's. Just one. All you will find is posts where I have used STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a difference between two players. But by all means, since you are attempting to make me seem hypocritical, there should be ONE post where I said Player A will rank here next year in stats, while Player B will only rank here and PREDICTED where they will rank exactly. Just one, and your point is proven. I'll be waiting. There's almost 3600 to choose from. All you need is one. I don't even remember all the stuff I have posted and I am damn confident you won't find that. And isn't Cha Ching the same dude that called you a hater in another thread? Grain of salt..................

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07-30-2005, 06:26 PM	#32
CHACHING 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Golden State Posts: 830	Just keepin it real man........ you're funny...

07-31-2005, 11:05 PM	#34
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	So first it was that I implied stats are irrelevant, though those words never have been uttered from me in 3700 posts, and now it's I think there are no problems on the team cause I won't pick exact future rankings for a player. Okay.

08-01-2005, 10:25 AM	#39
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Sure Whodi... whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep well at night. I'm sure if the Saints go 11-5 and AB has a 52% completion percentage and a 75 QB rating you won't say a word about him... right? I guess the difference is I really could care less where these players WILL rank in the league if we aren't winning. It's not a matter of worrying about being wrong, it's a matter of not caring. If Joe leads the league in every receiving category, and we are 8-8 or worse and not in the playoffs, who cares? That will just be another notch for a Joe isn't old argument. And rightfully so. It's all about hoping we make some noise this year, screw the small stuff. Where will they rank? I hope they rank 10-6 or better and make the playoffs. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. I'll expect not to hear any negative talk about any player on the team whatsoever from you this season so long as the Saints have a winning record. That's all that matters, right? Individual stats are irrelevant at that point... LOL
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

08-01-2005, 11:22 AM	#40
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	So you mean, after all this time, all the capitalizing and emphasizing of words, you STILL have not caught on to the simple concept of PREDICTING STATS, and DISCUSSING STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED? SO you mean to tell me that you do not realize than when the season is over, the stats will be recorded at that point, not guessed at, and thus can be used for a FACTUAL ANALYSIS instead of a Ouija board, pull something out your arse prediction? Still? STILL? I'm sure if the Saints go 11-5 and AB has a 52% completion percentage and a 75 QB rating you won't say a word about him... right? So you mean AB's completion percentage and rating will ALREADY BE RECORDED and thus I have no need to GUESS at where they will be? And I would be able to compare them to 32 other starting QBs cause they will also have been RECORDED, PAST TENSE? When the season is over? Brilliant WhoDat. Why didn't I say this 10 times already? I'll expect not to hear any negative talk about any player on the team whatsoever from you this season so long as the Saints have a winning record. That's all that matters, right? Individual stats are irrelevant at that point... LOL Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy. 1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant. 2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player Should be easy no?