Had 24 hours to reflect on the game

TheOak · 12-09-2019, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Time to fire Payton and get a new younger QB while we're at it.

Make sure we hire only ****ing perfection while we are at it.

yungbreesus · 12-10-2019, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Make sure we hire only ****ing perfection while we are at it.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Time to fire Payton and get a new younger QB while we're at it.

my points aren't to say that there are huge issues with the offense or coaching. brees played like a god and sean for the most part called a great game. but in a game this close, if you're going to take chances that can have big consequences, like going for 2 in the first quarter or faking a punt on 4th and 18th, it shouldn't look like flukey plays. both of those looked like flukie plays, and they both cost us points. i like sean's aggressiveness, but i feel like he can overthink it sometimes. also to be fair, the fake punt play could have been all on rizzi and not sean. i don't know if thats a scenario where rizzi goes to sean or where sean decides we can't give the ball back.

AsylumGuido · 12-10-2019, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by yungbreesus

my points aren't to say that there are huge issues with the offense or coaching. brees played like a god and sean for the most part called a great game. but in a game this close, if you're going to take chances that can have big consequences, like going for 2 in the first quarter or faking a punt on 4th and 18th, it shouldn't look like flukey plays. both of those looked like flukie plays, and they both cost us points. i like sean's aggressiveness, but i feel like he can overthink it sometimes. also to be fair, the fake punt play could have been all on rizzi and not sean. i don't know if thats a scenario where rizzi goes to sean or where sean decides we can't give the ball back.

Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half.

yungbreesus · 12-10-2019, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half.

that makes sense. its also a little alarming. rizzi has had some pretty bad moments so far. i put that one right up there with the onside kick issues last week.

K Major · 12-10-2019, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half.

IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that.

He literally held Trey all the way down field

. If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line.

yungbreesus · 12-10-2019, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that.

He literally held Trey all the way down field . If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line.

as much as i wish we would have gotten a call, i don't want to see another rule change because we're griping about it. it makes us look terrible, and i think the refs, who should all be fired but will never happen because of their union representation, will just be harder on us.

that play failed because it was a stupid play and someone, rizzi payton or both, didn't understand the rules or the probability of getting a call on the play. that rule is in place for a reason, and honestly i think it makes sense. if it didn't exist, teams could basically just run a fake punt and because of the nature of the play would have a high probability of drawing a penalty. it would cheapen the game, because the guys blocking the gunner could have their back turned to the play, not even realize it's a fake, then get flagged for how they normally cover the gunner.

it was just a brain fart of a play that we should remove from the playbook and never try to run again. there are much easier, and smarter ways to convert a fake punt.

AsylumGuido · 12-10-2019, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that.

He literally held Trey all the way down field . If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line.

There is no "no holding on a punt" rule. There is, however a "no pass interference on a punt" rule. Holding the gunner/receiver all the down the field should have been a penalty according to the rules. The exact same holding call is made routinely on punt plays. Clean blocking downfield is fine. Grasping onto the gunner is not and that is what happened. Unfortunately, it is not reviewable as is PI.

K Major · 12-10-2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

There is no "no holding on a punt" rule. There is, however a "no pass interference on a punt" rule. Holding the gunner/receiver all the down the field should have been a penalty according to the rules. The exact same holding call is made routinely on punt plays. Clean blocking downfield is fine. Grasping onto the gunner is not and that is what happened. Unfortunately, it is not reviewable as is PI.

That's what I meant.

What I don't agree with is running a "fake" with Tre. He's not aggressive enough to get it when it's in the air.

Side note - I've watched a ton of football and I'll be honest here, I never knew the rule (not reviewable on PI) ... there was an obvious mugging (holding) is not reviewable?? Taysom was in punt formation however he was lined up deep and a WR is out side, what the hell determines if it's "punt formation"?

According to Article 3/section 5 (PI) of the NFL playbook :

"Whenever a team presents an apparent punting formation and until the ball is kicked, defensive acts that normally constitute pass interference are permitted against the end man on the line of scrimmage, or against an eligible receiver behind the line of scrimmage who is aligned or in motion more than one yard outside the end man on the line, provided that the acts do not constitute illegal holding. Defensive holding, such as tackling a receiver, still can be called and result in a five yard penalty from the previous spot, if accepted. Offensive pass interference rules still apply".

This would have given the Saints an automatic first down on that fake punt.

In short, the Saints were screwed on that play.

End rant

.

I'm on to the Colts

WW_Who_Dat · 12-10-2019, 10:50 AM

Hosed again ... and again ... and again ... will it ever end.

AsylumGuido · 12-10-2019, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

That's what I meant.

What I don't agree with is running a "fake" with Tre. He's not aggressive enough to get it when it's in the air.

Side note - I've watched a ton of football and I'll be honest here, I never knew the rule (not reviewable on PI) ... there was an obvious mugging (holding) is not reviewable?? Taysom was in punt formation however he was lined up deep and a WR is out side, what the hell determines if it's "punt formation"?

According to Article 3/section 5 (PI) of the NFL playbook :

"Whenever a team presents an apparent punting formation and until the ball is kicked, defensive acts that normally constitute pass interference are permitted against the end man on the line of scrimmage, or against an eligible receiver behind the line of scrimmage who is aligned or in motion more than one yard outside the end man on the line, provided that the acts do not constitute illegal holding. Defensive holding, such as tackling a receiver, still can be called and result in a five yard penalty from the previous spot, if accepted. Offensive pass interference rules still apply".

This would have given the Saints an automatic first down on that fake punt.

In short, the Saints were screwed on that play.

End rant .

I'm on to the Colts

Exactly. As it stands today, PI is the ONLY penalty that can be reviewed.

12-09-2019, 04:51 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Time to fire Payton and get a new younger QB while we're at it. Make sure we hire only ****ing perfection while we are at it. AsylumGuido likes this.

12-10-2019, 07:03 AM	#2
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by TheOak Make sure we hire only **ing perfection while we are at it. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido** Time to fire Payton and get a new younger QB while we're at it. my points aren't to say that there are huge issues with the offense or coaching. brees played like a god and sean for the most part called a great game. but in a game this close, if you're going to take chances that can have big consequences, like going for 2 in the first quarter or faking a punt on 4th and 18th, it shouldn't look like flukey plays. both of those looked like flukie plays, and they both cost us points. i like sean's aggressiveness, but i feel like he can overthink it sometimes. also to be fair, the fake punt play could have been all on rizzi and not sean. i don't know if thats a scenario where rizzi goes to sean or where sean decides we can't give the ball back.
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56

12-10-2019, 07:10 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by yungbreesus my points aren't to say that there are huge issues with the offense or coaching. brees played like a god and sean for the most part called a great game. but in a game this close, if you're going to take chances that can have big consequences, like going for 2 in the first quarter or faking a punt on 4th and 18th, it shouldn't look like flukey plays. both of those looked like flukie plays, and they both cost us points. i like sean's aggressiveness, but i feel like he can overthink it sometimes. also to be fair, the fake punt play could have been all on rizzi and not sean. i don't know if thats a scenario where rizzi goes to sean or where sean decides we can't give the ball back. Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half.

12-10-2019, 07:54 AM	#4
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half. that makes sense. its also a little alarming. rizzi has had some pretty bad moments so far. i put that one right up there with the onside kick issues last week. K Major likes this.
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56

12-10-2019, 08:13 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Kirwan and Miller addressed fakes on special teams and who makes the calls on NFL Radio's Moving the Chains recently. They said the special teams coordinator usually sees something they like and bring it to the attention of the head coach. The head coach then decides. The few times when the head coach is making the call the whole way it is usually coming out of a half. IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that. He literally held Trey all the way down field . If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line. dizzle88 and Rueben Mayes like this.

12-10-2019, 08:31 AM	#6
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by K Major IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that. He literally held Trey all the way down field . If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line. as much as i wish we would have gotten a call, i don't want to see another rule change because we're griping about it. it makes us look terrible, and i think the refs, who should all be fired but will never happen because of their union representation, will just be harder on us. that play failed because it was a stupid play and someone, rizzi payton or both, didn't understand the rules or the probability of getting a call on the play. that rule is in place for a reason, and honestly i think it makes sense. if it didn't exist, teams could basically just run a fake punt and because of the nature of the play would have a high probability of drawing a penalty. it would cheapen the game, because the guys blocking the gunner could have their back turned to the play, not even realize it's a fake, then get flagged for how they normally cover the gunner. it was just a brain fart of a play that we should remove from the playbook and never try to run again. there are much easier, and smarter ways to convert a fake punt.
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56

12-10-2019, 08:44 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by K Major IMO the NFL committee needs to re evaluate this "no holding on punt" rule in the off season. That is a bunch of BS that you can simply mug a guy like that. He literally held Trey all the way down field . If I'm running that play, put Can't Guard Mike out there on an island to throw that MF 5 yards onto the side line. There is no "no holding on a punt" rule. There is, however a "no pass interference on a punt" rule. Holding the gunner/receiver all the down the field should have been a penalty according to the rules. The exact same holding call is made routinely on punt plays. Clean blocking downfield is fine. Grasping onto the gunner is not and that is what happened. Unfortunately, it is not reviewable as is PI. Rugby Saint II and SaintsBro like this.

12-10-2019, 09:30 AM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by AsylumGuido There is no "no holding on a punt" rule. There is, however a "no pass interference on a punt" rule. Holding the gunner/receiver all the down the field should have been a penalty according to the rules. The exact same holding call is made routinely on punt plays. Clean blocking downfield is fine. Grasping onto the gunner is not and that is what happened. Unfortunately, it is not reviewable as is PI. That's what I meant. What I don't agree with is running a "fake" with Tre. He's not aggressive enough to get it when it's in the air. Side note - I've watched a ton of football and I'll be honest here, I never knew the rule (not reviewable on PI) ... there was an obvious mugging (holding) is not reviewable?? Taysom was in punt formation however he was lined up deep and a WR is out side, what the hell determines if it's "punt formation"? According to Article 3/section 5 (PI) of the NFL playbook : "Whenever a team presents an apparent punting formation and until the ball is kicked, defensive acts that normally constitute pass interference are permitted against the end man on the line of scrimmage, or against an eligible receiver behind the line of scrimmage who is aligned or in motion more than one yard outside the end man on the line, provided that the acts do not constitute illegal holding. Defensive holding, such as tackling a receiver, still can be called and result in a five yard penalty from the previous spot, if accepted. Offensive pass interference rules still apply". This would have given the Saints an automatic first down on that fake punt. In short, the Saints were screwed on that play. End rant . I'm on to the Colts AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

12-10-2019, 10:50 AM	#9
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,280 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Hosed again ... and again ... and again ... will it ever end.

12-10-2019, 12:56 PM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,701	Re: Had 24 hours to reflect on the game Originally Posted by K Major That's what I meant. What I don't agree with is running a "fake" with Tre. He's not aggressive enough to get it when it's in the air. Side note - I've watched a ton of football and I'll be honest here, I never knew the rule (not reviewable on PI) ... there was an obvious mugging (holding) is not reviewable?? Taysom was in punt formation however he was lined up deep and a WR is out side, what the hell determines if it's "punt formation"? According to Article 3/section 5 (PI) of the NFL playbook : "Whenever a team presents an apparent punting formation and until the ball is kicked, defensive acts that normally constitute pass interference are permitted against the end man on the line of scrimmage, or against an eligible receiver behind the line of scrimmage who is aligned or in motion more than one yard outside the end man on the line, provided that the acts do not constitute illegal holding. Defensive holding, such as tackling a receiver, still can be called and result in a five yard penalty from the previous spot, if accepted. Offensive pass interference rules still apply". This would have given the Saints an automatic first down on that fake punt. In short, the Saints were screwed on that play. End rant . I'm on to the Colts Exactly. As it stands today, PI is the ONLY penalty that can be reviewed. K Major likes this.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/96391-had-24-hours-reflect-game.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Had 24 hours to reflect on the game	This thread	Refback	12-09-2019 02:45 PM	1