Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen

K Major · 01-17-2020, 08:48 AM

Good morning B&G

,

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss our lack of closing in big games ... specifically on defense. We've looked good in the regular season however as the playoff starts, we can't seem to close.

I understand Brees didn't have a good performance, we were lacking difference makers (Shimmy & Davenport) etc but what gives on defense ? We are good defending 1st and 2nd downs however 3rd down is where there are breakdowns. Repeatedly. I focus on Niners game (4th down to Kittle) & Vikes bomb (Marcus was late) to Adam K in OT which put us out of the playoffs

. We're giving up too many big plays & having deep ball breakdowns again and again.

IMO Def Coordinator Dennis Allen's name doesn't come up enough on the lack of putting players in position to make plays. There is too much talent on defense not to get it done in the playoffs.

Thoughts?

MatthewT · 01-17-2020, 10:00 AM

Not sure who is at fault, but it does appear there is too much emphasis on creating a turnover instead of stopping the offense and creating a punting situation.

blackangold · 01-17-2020, 11:20 AM

1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine.
2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control.
3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries.

The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers.

I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

K Major · 01-17-2020, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine.
2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control.
3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries.

The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers.

I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

Fair points ...

However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening.

In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB.

It just seems to me that late in games, DA defense is not dependable when it matters most. This guy was a defensive back & this isn't an area (secondary collapses) where we should be consistently losing. Defending the "long field" is a problem. I find it very discouraging that we seem to give up a lot of clutch plays from mediocre QB's (Keenum, Jimmy, Goff, Kurt) over the years.

Dennis needs a defensive "consultant". He's been serviceable at best.

Just my opinion but Allen isn't going to take us to the SB because his defenses can't be counted on to make plays when it matters most. Minny miracle, last year vs Lambs and now the VIKES ... again. Kurt Cousins ? In our house? SMDH.

Payton has got to see the pattern.

dizzle88 · 01-17-2020, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Fair points ...

However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening.

In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB.

It just seems to me that late in games, DA defense is not dependable when it matters most. This guy was a defensive back & this isn't an area (secondary collapses) where we should be consistently losing. Defending the "long field" is a problem. I find it very discouraging that we seem to give up a lot of clutch plays from mediocre QB's (Keenum, Jimmy, Goff, Kurt) over the years.

Dennis needs a defensive "consultant". He's been serviceable at best.

Just my opinion but Allen isn't going to take us to the SB because his defenses can't be counted on to make plays when it matters most. Minny miracle, last year vs Lambs and now the VIKES ... again. Kurt Cousins ? In our house? SMDH.

Payton has got to see the pattern.

Dont forget all the times where it happened, but the offense had enough time to re-take the lead. Specifically ones that come to mind are;

2019 - Week 1 vs Texans, Lattimore allows huge reception, Stills catches deep TD pass the next play.

2018 - Browns game in Superdome, we let Tyrod Taylor beat us deep with 50 seconds to go.

There are many more, those just come to mind straight away.

jeanpierre · 01-17-2020, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine.
2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control.
3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries.

The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers.

I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

Definitely agree with points 2 & 3...

Especially frustrated with No. 2, because when we were running the ball with success, Payton seemed to try to force to many carries on Kamara, especially inside, and not nearly enough to Murray or even Taysom...

The injuries definitely caught up to us on the defensive line as we were no longer as fresh, however, Cam rarely came out of the game...

Injuries are part of the game, and while we only had one of our starting DBs at one point, don't give Allen a pass because other teams were stopping us with total less talent than we had...

Seemed the two previous seasons we'd take early first half hits, then play shut-down defense in the second half; this season we saw regression to not getting off the field in the second half of games...

blackangold · 01-17-2020, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Fair points ...

However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening.

In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB.

Agree with playing PJ on Rudolph, it was a 0 coverage blitz call and the ball was out fast. There aren't many going to stop that play, we have no one to match up with Rudolph. Problem was how they got there... Marcus Williams cheated to the wrong side of the field. He should have known that Lattimore was not in the game and given more support to Robinson instead of Jones, who had been solid all game.

Late in the 49ers game... That was all Williams, comes down late for the tackle then provides the game ending penalty. Our D played poorly for the entire game, so put that all on Allen for having no answers... but the game winning drive was basically 1 play that Williams blew.

The Rams game can't be put on the defense at all. They were a prolific offense that we held to 23 points in regulation. Our offense had the ball in OT and at the end of the 4th but couldn't execute.

TheOak · 01-17-2020, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening.

The problem is that when there are injuries to key players and your talent has a steep drop from your starters to the 2nd/3rds it doesn't matter your genius if the players refuse to play the ball once it is in the air and instead try to dry hump the receivers face.

I look at Dennis Allen this way. We were in the top half of the league in points allowed, yards per game, and 4th down%.. Top 6 in 3rd%.

Then I think about the Spagnuolo and Ryan years...

Im good with Allen. Very good with not screwing with that.

With the exception of maybe Lattimore and Jackrabbit... No one is watching our defensive secondary play and thinking.. Man I wish we had that guy.

K Major · 01-17-2020, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Then I think about the Spagnuolo and Ryan years...

Yet Steve Spagnuolo is one WIN away from the Super Bowl as 1st year Chiefs Defensive Coordinator. Some would even argue that the Saints have a more talented roster defensively from top to bottom than KC.

But we are here on the outside looking in ... again.

Cruize · 01-17-2020, 04:19 PM

ALL of the rules HEAVILY favors the offense. But, I think the Saints do play too soft and too much zone at times. The best defenses man up and attack. The Saints have enough talent for that.

01-17-2020, 08:48 AM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,742 Blog Entries: 3	Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Good morning B&G , Thought I'd start a thread to discuss our lack of closing in big games ... specifically on defense. We've looked good in the regular season however as the playoff starts, we can't seem to close. I understand Brees didn't have a good performance, we were lacking difference makers (Shimmy & Davenport) etc but what gives on defense ? We are good defending 1st and 2nd downs however 3rd down is where there are breakdowns. Repeatedly. I focus on Niners game (4th down to Kittle) & Vikes bomb (Marcus was late) to Adam K in OT which put us out of the playoffs . We're giving up too many big plays & having deep ball breakdowns again and again. IMO Def Coordinator Dennis Allen's name doesn't come up enough on the lack of putting players in position to make plays. There is too much talent on defense not to get it done in the playoffs. Thoughts? jnormand, leilung, SmashMouth and 1 others like this.

01-17-2020, 10:00 AM	#2
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Not sure who is at fault, but it does appear there is too much emphasis on creating a turnover instead of stopping the offense and creating a punting situation. RefsRobbedUs likes this.

01-17-2020, 11:20 AM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen 1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine. 2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control. 3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries. The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers. I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case. jnormand, Cruize, SmashMouth and 4 others like this.

01-17-2020, 12:09 PM	#4
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,742 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by blackangold 1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine. 2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control. 3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries. The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers. I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case. Fair points ... However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening. In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB. It just seems to me that late in games, DA defense is not dependable when it matters most. This guy was a defensive back & this isn't an area (secondary collapses) where we should be consistently losing. Defending the "long field" is a problem. I find it very discouraging that we seem to give up a lot of clutch plays from mediocre QB's (Keenum, Jimmy, Goff, Kurt) over the years. Dennis needs a defensive "consultant". He's been serviceable at best. Just my opinion but Allen isn't going to take us to the SB because his defenses can't be counted on to make plays when it matters most. Minny miracle, last year vs Lambs and now the VIKES ... again. Kurt Cousins ? In our house? SMDH. Payton has got to see the pattern. SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and RefsRobbedUs like this.

01-17-2020, 12:59 PM	#5
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by K Major Fair points ... However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening. In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB. It just seems to me that late in games, DA defense is not dependable when it matters most. This guy was a defensive back & this isn't an area (secondary collapses) where we should be consistently losing. Defending the "long field" is a problem. I find it very discouraging that we seem to give up a lot of clutch plays from mediocre QB's (Keenum, Jimmy, Goff, Kurt) over the years. Dennis needs a defensive "consultant". He's been serviceable at best. Just my opinion but Allen isn't going to take us to the SB because his defenses can't be counted on to make plays when it matters most. Minny miracle, last year vs Lambs and now the VIKES ... again. Kurt Cousins ? In our house? SMDH. Payton has got to see the pattern. Dont forget all the times where it happened, but the offense had enough time to re-take the lead. Specifically ones that come to mind are; 2019 - Week 1 vs Texans, Lattimore allows huge reception, Stills catches deep TD pass the next play. 2018 - Browns game in Superdome, we let Tyrod Taylor beat us deep with 50 seconds to go. There are many more, those just come to mind straight away. SmashMouth, skymike and RefsRobbedUs like this.

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01-17-2020, 01:20 PM	#6
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by blackangold 1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine. 2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control. 3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries. The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers. I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case. Definitely agree with points 2 & 3... Especially frustrated with No. 2, because when we were running the ball with success, Payton seemed to try to force to many carries on Kamara, especially inside, and not nearly enough to Murray or even Taysom... The injuries definitely caught up to us on the defensive line as we were no longer as fresh, however, Cam rarely came out of the game... Injuries are part of the game, and while we only had one of our starting DBs at one point, don't give Allen a pass because other teams were stopping us with total less talent than we had... Seemed the two previous seasons we'd take early first half hits, then play shut-down defense in the second half; this season we saw regression to not getting off the field in the second half of games... SmashMouth likes this.
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01-17-2020, 01:49 PM	#7
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by K Major Fair points ... However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening. In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB. Agree with playing PJ on Rudolph, it was a 0 coverage blitz call and the ball was out fast. There aren't many going to stop that play, we have no one to match up with Rudolph. Problem was how they got there... Marcus Williams cheated to the wrong side of the field. He should have known that Lattimore was not in the game and given more support to Robinson instead of Jones, who had been solid all game. Late in the 49ers game... That was all Williams, comes down late for the tackle then provides the game ending penalty. Our D played poorly for the entire game, so put that all on Allen for having no answers... but the game winning drive was basically 1 play that Williams blew. The Rams game can't be put on the defense at all. They were a prolific offense that we held to 23 points in regulation. Our offense had the ball in OT and at the end of the 4th but couldn't execute. WW_Who_Dat likes this.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

01-17-2020, 03:31 PM	#8
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by K Major However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening. The problem is that when there are injuries to key players and your talent has a steep drop from your starters to the 2nd/3rds it doesn't matter your genius if the players refuse to play the ball once it is in the air and instead try to dry hump the receivers face. I look at Dennis Allen this way. We were in the top half of the league in points allowed, yards per game, and 4th down%.. Top 6 in 3rd%. Then I think about the Spagnuolo and Ryan years... Im good with Allen. Very good with not screwing with that. With the exception of maybe Lattimore and Jackrabbit... No one is watching our defensive secondary play and thinking.. Man I wish we had that guy.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

01-17-2020, 03:46 PM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,742 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen Originally Posted by TheOak Then I think about the Spagnuolo and Ryan years... Yet Steve Spagnuolo is one WIN away from the Super Bowl as 1st year Chiefs Defensive Coordinator. Some would even argue that the Saints have a more talented roster defensively from top to bottom than KC. But we are here on the outside looking in ... again. RailBoss likes this.

01-17-2020, 04:19 PM	#10
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457	Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen ALL of the rules HEAVILY favors the offense. But, I think the Saints do play too soft and too much zone at times. The best defenses man up and attack. The Saints have enough talent for that. SmashMouth likes this.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,457

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