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-   -   2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook (https://blackandgold.com/saints/97134-2020-new-orleans-saints-roster-outlook.html)

AsylumGuido 09-21-2020 11:33 AM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 897006)
I absolutely respect Davenport's ability … when he is on the field however he's been inactive for about 40% of his time in New Orleans. #1 draft picks do not survive long in this league if they are barely on the field.

Remember, both of his injuries happened towards the end of the seasons playoff run & the pass rush basically disappeared.

The interesting indicator here will be whether the Saints pick up the 5th year option.

And I agree, hopefully he sees the field soon.
You seem to be blaming Davenport for suffering an injury. Injuries are and always have been part of the game. Just this weekend several very high profile players suffered injuries. It is unfortunate, but all part of the game. Nobody knows what can happen in practice or during a game. It is a matter of luck.

By the way, tonight's game will be the 37th game including playoffs that Davenport has been on the Saints roster and he played in 28 of those. That means he was only inactive for 24.3% of those games due to injury. And don't forget that fellow 1st rounder Sheldon Rankins was injured for SEVEN games alone last season during that same playoff stretch run. It wasn't all on Davenport.

You might as well get pissed at Michael Thomas for having his ankle rolled up on or at Drew Brees for getting his thumb injured last season. I can understand disappointment, but getting angry over a player injury is not logical. It is no different than getting angry at a coin being tossed and coming up tails three times in a row while wanting it to be heads. It is not the coins fault. It is dumb luck.

K Major 09-21-2020 11:57 AM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 897011)
.

It is no different than getting angry at a coin being tossed and coming up tails three times in a row while wanting it to be heads. It is not the coins fault. It is dumb luck.
Yeah dumb luck.

AG - Davenport is injury prone until he is no longer injury prone.

AsylumGuido 09-21-2020 12:21 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 897016)
Yeah dumb luck.

AG - Davenport is injury prone until he is no longer injury prone.
He has had some bad luck. Let me give you a comparison ... Frank Gore. Gore only played a full 16 game schedule once in his first six years. He was being labeled by some as injury prone. A funny thing happened though ... over his next ten seasons he has missed only TWO games. What happened to those injuries that he was "proned" to? I'll tell you what happened. His luck changed and he is very likely to end up in the Hall of Fame.

Actually, every player in the NFL is injury prone because the very nature of the game creates events that are prone to causing injury on any given play in a game or in practice.

I will give you that some players can be more prone than others to a specific type of injury, as well. Luke Kuechly, for example, was prone to concussions. Other players have dealt with hamstring issues their entire careers. Davenport, however, has missed time to three totally unrelated injuries. Yes. Just dumb luck.

Rugby Saint II 09-21-2020 12:44 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 897010)
For me, I constantly compare Ohio St. prospect, now Cincinnati Bengal DE Sam Hubbard, Round 3, Pick No. 77 in the same draft as Davenport...

Davenport may have a slight edge in recorded pressures according to services like PFF, but compare their career stats...

Davenport 53 Tot Tkl; 10.5 Sacks; 4 FF; 0 FR; 2 PD; 0 DTD

Hubbard 115 Tot Tkl; 14.5 Sacks; 2 FF; 1 FR; 5 PD; 1 DTD

That's Two First and a Fifth vs the investment of a 3rd Round pick...

I like Davenport, even have him on my FF team; and the same with Ingram; but I hated the poor draft management of spending multiple picks when you can find that rookie contract production down the line...

And, whether those who disagree about Davenport the player, you can directly attribute further multipick moves down the line to that overspend on Davenport (McCoy, Ruiz, Baun, Trautman)...

The draft history is there; unfortunately, Payton still has yet to respect the history to learn from it...
JP, the thing is that we have a stocked roster and all the cut draft picks just end up on another teams roster. Payton has a vision! His team is loaded and he's looking for a few more dominant draft picks to complete the roster. I'm fine with trading picks to get the missing parts of the puzzle. Davenport is exciting as hell to watch and he is an impact player when he is on the field.

Remember ya'll. He didn't have a substantial injury history before coming here. I thought and still think it was a solid gamble. I've always said that Davenport will make us forget the cost but injuries might have to make me rethink that position. I hope he gets his unrelated injuries in check this year.

jeanpierre 09-21-2020 01:17 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 897021)
JP, the thing is that we have a stocked roster and all the cut draft picks just end up on another teams roster. Payton has a vision! His team is loaded and he's looking for a few more dominant draft picks to complete the roster. I'm fine with trading picks to get the missing parts of the puzzle. Davenport is exciting as hell to watch and he is an impact player when he is on the field.

Remember ya'll. He didn't have a substantial injury history before coming here. I thought and still think it was a solid gamble. I've always said that Davenport will make us forget the cost but injuries might have to make me rethink that position. I hope he gets his unrelated injuries in check this year.
Rugs, look back through my posts, I believe I've made a strong case; this roster would've been even more talented, and we'd had cap space to boot...

Consider this, please - look at the previous post, could you imagine if we'd had Sam Hubbard opposite Cam Jordan the last two playoff tournaments while Davenport was out? Consider that.

And I'll repeat what I said about injury history; there's some great talent in the non-Major Conferences...

But when you have players (SEC, ACC, Big10) who play 10+ games vs other future pro talent, you can check for durability as well as talent...

And I genuinely like Davenport and am as frustrated for him as anybody, but it's the constant reaching that's killing us...

AsylumGuido 09-21-2020 01:32 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 897029)
Rugs, look back through my posts, I believe I've made a strong case; this roster would've been even more talented, and we'd had cap space to boot...

Consider this, please - look at the previous post, could you imagine if we'd had Sam Hubbard opposite Cam Jordan the last two playoff tournaments while Davenport was out? Consider that.

And I'll repeat what I said about injury history; there's some great talent in the non-Major Conferences...

But when you have players (SEC, ACC, Big10) who play 10+ games vs other future pro talent, you can check for durability as well as talent...
Can you guarantee that Hubbard wouldn't have been injured, as well? He could have been in the same place at the same time as Davenport and suffered the same, or worse, injury. You never know in the NFL if or when an injury might occur. Christian McCaffrey is going to be out for several weeks. Saquon Barkley is out for the season. Neither had a history of injuries and both played bigtime college ball. Courtland Sutton out for the season. Drew Lock out for several games. Nick Bosa out for the year. Jimmy Garoppolo with a high ankle sprain. Parris Campbell, Cam Akers, Breshad Perriman, Byron Jones, Sterling Shepard, Soloman Thomas, Malik Hooker, George Kittle, Michael Thomas ... all have suffered injuries thus far. It is part of the game.

Edit: Add Anthony Barr to that list with a torn pectoral. Tavon Young and Bruce Irvin with torn ACL's. 49er's Raheem Mostert and Tevin Coleman both with knee injuries.

Edit Deux: Add Brandon Scherff with a sprained MCL. Out 3-5 weeks.

vpheughan 09-21-2020 02:11 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
COULD'A, WOULD'A, SHOULD'A AND WHAT IF WILL NEVER CHANGE WHAT IS!

jeanpierre 09-21-2020 04:38 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 897031)
Can you guarantee that Hubbard wouldn't have been injured, as well? He could have been in the same place at the same time as Davenport and suffered the same, or worse, injury. You never know in the NFL if or when an injury might occur. Christian McCaffrey is going to be out for several weeks. Saquon Barkley is out for the season. Neither had a history of injuries and both played bigtime college ball. Courtland Sutton out for the season. Drew Lock out for several games. Nick Bosa out for the year. Jimmy Garoppolo with a high ankle sprain. Parris Campbell, Cam Akers, Breshad Perriman, Byron Jones, Sterling Shepard, Soloman Thomas, Malik Hooker, George Kittle, Michael Thomas ... all have suffered injuries thus far. It is part of the game.

Edit: Add Anthony Barr to that list with a torn pectoral. Tavon Young and Bruce Irvin with torn ACL's. 49er's Raheem Mostert and Tevin Coleman both with knee injuries.

Edit Deux: Add Brandon Scherff with a sprained MCL. Out 3-5 weeks.
Read my post(s); at least there's a history durability against playing ProTalent each week with Hubbard; who faced a more physical schedule than Davenport had in the one year he flashed...

And Hubbard didn't cost two first rounders and a fifth; if you take Hubbard with a third, you still have at least two more picks where you can expand your depth at that position for injuries...

AsylumGuido 09-21-2020 04:47 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 897044)
Read my post(s); at least there's a history durability, playing ProTalent each week with Hubbard, who faced a more physical schedule than Davenport had in the one year he flashed...

And Hubbard didn't cost two first rounders and a fifth; if you take Hubbard with a third, you still have at least two more picks where you can expand your depth at that position for injuries...
And there is no guarantee that those two first rounders would have had as much impact as Davenport can still provide, right?

Our friend out there is pretty ... strange ... but he is right about one thing ... would'a, could'a, should'a is meaningless and a waste of time and effort.

https://blackandgold.com/u/4973-albu...icture1300.jpg

;)

jeanpierre 09-21-2020 05:11 PM
Re: 2020 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook
 
I see I made my case...


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