Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

The only thing about this entire thread that confuses me is the usage of the word division. The word is constantly thrown around. So I'm sitting back and wondering at one point were we not divided? The socioeconomic constructs of this nation were built on division. Since when have Black people and White people been united in America? Where is this America some of the contributors to this forum have been living in? I haven't seen it.

I go back and watch the debates from the 1950's and 1960's. White people would tell Black people that their rhetoric was divisive...during Jim Crow segregation. The irony. Those who went as far as to create legislation to keep the races separated telling the other group they're being divisive. It's an odd concept for me to grasp.

I'm also seeing the words "truth" and "reality" utilized. Well this idea of unity isn't rooted in any truth or reality. My great-grandfather didn't know anything about this unity when he went off to fight in World War II and couldn't eat in the mess hall with the White soldiers. He didn't know anything about this unity when he came back and eventually had to join in on the Civil Rights Movement.

My grandparents didn't know if this unity when they were attending segregated schools. My grandfather didn't know if this unity when he became the 1st Black engineer at the Paper Mill in Moss Point, MS and was routinely called boy and ******.

So this idea of unity...it just really throws me off. When Black people rallied behind Obama White people weren't unified with us in that decision. When White people rallied behind Bush Black people weren't unified with them in that decision. Sure, we come together in spurts. We'll join hands in tragedy, despair, and times of war. When it's over it's business as usual.

I'll watch people weaponize MLK against Blacks because he was so "unifying". Yeah...unifying enough that he was murdered. MLK was NOT liked in the 1960's just like Muhammad Ali. The love affair with MLK came after his death. But the victors write the story per usual.

I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if we aren't going to talk about who implemented the concept and how it became what it is. I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if you have no tangible solutions. If helping the people in the ghetto was a priority then there would be no ghettoes.

Difference between me and most, I'm not looking for the help, so in turn I don't want to here the *****ing and moaning about communities you don't ever have to go to. If I'm Michael Jordan I'm building a Jordan Brand factory right in the hood of Chicago. I'm training and giving well paying jobs with health benefits (since for some reason they tie healthcare to employment) to the residents to work there. This increases the property value and improves the schools by default.

So that's what I'm planning to do to help where I can. Create healthcare facilities and partner with the school systems to funnel these kids from high school, to a junior college/university, and right into a facility in their community made specifically for them to work at. Plans. Ideas. Solutions.

I'd bet a years salary you'll see a dramatic drop in crime rates and an improvement in educational outcomes. People need resources and opportunities. You can't just blindly throw money at things. You have to strategize and try to create solutions.

More importantly, nobody posting has ANY problem being divisive when they want to get their point across. Either you agree or you disagree. If one side is saying that this is their reality and the other side is saying that's not true we're supposed to come together because we both like the Saints? That's the unity we're talking about? Again, just odd.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Not only that but the lynchings, murders, voter suppression, and destruction of black property from the end of reconstruction to 1960’s, when blacks tried to use there rights in the south.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

What are your thoughts on reparations? Do you thing it would solve anything on a long term basis?

Honestly, as a conservative, I am starting to think it would be a good thing. Although it may not actually fix long term issues in those communities but it may help jump start better jobs and businesses in those areas. We just had over 6 trillion in stimulus with more coming. I think 250-300 billion in direct payments (25k per family of 4) to the black community may be a positive.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I'm cool with that, but we have to first determine on our end what we would want those reparations to be. People are jumping out there making claims for reparations, but that's something I like to call "Nation Business". We have to approach these kind of situations as though we're an independent nation and come to the consensus on what's best for everybody. Our leadership is poor and oftentimes compromised. I need to be able to trust those leading the charge.

Personally, I feel that if you gave each Black person in America $25k or even $350k a piece we'd likely blow through it all with little to no progress. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but we'd end up giving that money right back to the government. I always liked the Nation of Islam's idea of reparations. Land in the South for an independent nation and the Israel treatment as it pertains to aid for a few decades. We work together as sister nations. As equals.

Like I said though, my community has to sit at the table and figure out what we want. I will acknowledge the fact that several Conservatives have approached me and have been willing to negotiate the terms on reparations. Both White Liberals and Conservatives seem to be warming up to the idea when just a few months ago it was definitive no. It's surprised me.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

You'll find me unique. I don't view the Conservatives as the ultimate enemy like most of my contemporaries. I do no differentiating between Obama, Clinton, Trump, or Biden. I actually listened to my ancestors. MLK likened Conservatives to wolves and Liberals to foxes. Wolves don't hid their desire to eat the sheep. Foxes are sneaky and might frolic and play with the sheep. They're cunning. Yet...the appetite is the same. I'm down to figure it all out together, as long as we can come to equal terms. I want the power.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I truly believe that the idea of defunding the police department is a very bad idea. You think crime is tough now? Just defund the police department and crime will take over the streets allowing black people the opportunity to rob and murder at an even greater rate than they currently do. Of course white people will be stealing and robbing too but that doesn't get National attention. Floyd was a career criminal! Did you know that? Look up his arrest record. This is what we are fighting about? Why don't we just say Ex-Con lives matter? Most of the police brutality is against these outliers.

We once had the best education in the world and we have let education get weaker by defunding it the through the years. No child left behind was an egregious error in judgement. Yeah, dumb down the entire system so no one gets their feelings hurt. We are not even close to the top in world education....we're closer to a third world now. Go ahead. Defund the police and watch lynching's take place again since the Republican party refuses to outlaw it.

Oh, and I read yesterday that I should not say "I don't see color". WTF? I don't! Now I'm not even allowed to say I'm not a racist in my own way unless I say it another way that is apparently non offensive…..although I'm still uncertain if I can still call black people colored or African Americans. It was after all their idea originally. I followed their wishes and I'm still trying to change for the better. Every black generation wants to call themselves something different and I try to keep up. No one conforms to white society but whites must bow down to other racist narratives.

I'm white and I'm not ashamed! Is that too aggressive? Am I allowed to say that I'm happy with the skin I was born with? Oh and my family never owned slaves. Flame on. :flame:

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I just don't see the value in that discussion in terms of where someone is now. Bad decisions are almost always the reason people fail in life. It is sometimes unfortunate events in one's life or something catastrophic. Most often it is bad personal decisions. Having multiple children at a young age is a bad decision. Not working regularly is a bad decision. Not doing well academically or learning skills are bad pmdecisions. Committing crime is a bad decision.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Worst way to improve race relations ever? Reparations. Take from one race of people who earned it and give it to another race that didn’t.

The hate and resentment toward blacks will skyrocket.

No one alive today owned slaves
No one alive today was a slave
Blacks also owned slaves
Blacks sold slaves worldwide
White men gave their lives to free slaves
Most of America immigrated here after slavery was abolished

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Because they sure are acting like it.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Nope. They were upset and talked it through, came to an understanding, and moved on. That's how adults work things.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I disagree. Do you think brees doesn’t feel the way he initially spoke? IMO he recanted because they attacked him. He wanted to ease the tension so he caved. That’s not being an adult. Jenkins and MT attacked him. They acted like kids because someone has a different opinion

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I absolutely think he doesn't feel the way he initially spoke. It is called understanding through conversation. It is a thing adults do. I was right there with him. When the kneeling protests first started I felt exactly the same way as what Brees described. I have since had many meaningful conversations and have come to realize I was wrong. The athletes were not protesting the flag itself. They were using the moment to force the start of a dialog involving issues including police brutality. Just like myself, Brees didn't recant because of any attacks. He recanted because of true honest dialog. Jenkins and ALL of his teammates accepted his apology because they understood where he was coming from at first, as well.

Would I personally kneel during the national anthem? I doubt it, but I most certainly understand why others would and I now stand behind their right as Americans to do such. You see, I am an adult and can learn through meaningful conversation.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I understand and respect your reasoning here, but Jenkins can't be included in this "adult understanding conversation." He went on social media and told Brees to "Shut the F*** up" and then accepted an apology when Brees accepted his teammates point of view.

There seemed to be no effort from Jenkins or Thomas to try and understand Brees' point (not saying Brees was right btw), they just threw him under the bus on social media until he apologised.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Also, I'd like to add that whilst Drew did miss the point, I'm genuinely shocked at how many people willingly turned their back on him.

Without Brees, we are still experiencing 3 win seasons, still have the same amount of super bowls as the falcons and likely still the league doormat. Not to mention all the money and effort he's put into the community for 15 years.

I know this is bigger than football, I truly get that, but to call Brees a racist is ludicrous.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

How can you say that without being part of the personal conversation? Who is to say they didn't understand Brees' point? It doesn't change the fact that the kneeling was never meant to be an attack on the flag itself, but instead a call for dialog. Understandings are commonly come to when things are said in haste. Have you never said something to your loved one that you came to realize was over the top later?

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Of course I have, our closest family and friends are unfortunately the people we hurt the most sometimes. But I dont go on Facebook and post a status or video telling them to Shut the F*** up, that everyone can see, that's a cowards way to do things.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

In today's world with COVID and everything, people react badly. If Brees and Jenkins left their conversation on good terms, which they both have implied, then cooler heads prevailed. That's a good thing.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

That I can agree with, working for the NHS, I see people react badly every day lol

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Drew Brees believes exactly as he first stated. Does Brees is afraid of tarnishing his reputation and opportunity to be on TV after football since this is his final season. Drew Brees is a coward.

Any man that says someone needs to STFU for stating their opinion is a P who is incapable of holding his emotions.

Everything else surrounding the topic is BS and some people like that. They really enjoy being lied to, tickles them down deep.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Never knew you were NHS. Hats off to you for sure. Especially during these times. My wife has spent the past 35 years in or closely connected to the hospital industry and I spent my last 17.5 years before retiring.

:cheering:

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

And in comes the voice of no reason.

LOL!

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I have been on this forum forever, mostly in the background listening. Here is something I feel i need to state regarding this situation and the situation in America today regarding "divisiveness". To me, there is a real simple solution.

Remove labels.

We label everything, I am black, I am white, he's a racist, she's a bigot, I'm a 1 on Enneagram. It never ends. We use these labels to define us and to make excuses for terrible behavior. "That's just who I am and i won't apologize for it" .... etc.

Every single person on this planet has the ability to change, change and love are choices, plain and simple.

People make the right choices and CHOOSE to love instead of hate is the ONLY way the world will change for the better, regardless of race, religion, enneagram number, etc.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Dead on, jonny. And get with me offline. My son performs there in Nashville. Like you to go check him out.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

I despise being labeled as well. Except as a WhoDat. That one is cool.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Youre definitely in love with being lied to and believing BS. Youre completely FOS about yourself so it sort of fits

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

And you go through life believing everyone lies to you and everyone is full of bullsh!t. Guess who clearly lives a happier existence.

:D

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Ah, but in a perfect world...

Labels are just names - a means to reference something. I see the problem as a bit deeper. It's not Labels, its people wearing their feelings on their sleeves and feeling justification in being offended and feeling entitled enough to actually believe everyone else should accommodate their emotion.

The world has NEVER worked that way, nor will it ever.

Ability to change does not equate into willingness. Some people have very deep rooted psychological reasons for their issues...racism in this case. Some people actually justify their position, as if it could ever be, and these people are both white and black and Asian and Hispanic etc.

The Beats didn't solve a damn thing. Neither did the Hippies, and neither did the SDS or the Weather Underground. When the dust settles, there will not be a separate jurisdiction in Seattle. The police will still exist. So will racism. For those who think I'm being a bit defeatist, as my grandmother would have said, "hide and watch."

You won't find many well thought out opinions on the street. You will find people spewing whatever their "news" source tells them to spew. These "news" sources are in the can for a political persuasion. Wash, rinse, and repeat. As long as we, the people, allow our politicians to create discord as a means to divide and get elected then we have the government we deserve and thus the society we deserve. The solution will NOT arrive through legislation. The problem is far greater.

How then do we solve the problem? I don't know. What "I" am doing is reading with my kids. Right now I'm reading "Killing England" to them. I don't want them to hear all the rhetoric about the founders being bad men because (and precisely because) some of them owned slaves. That's a red herring. I want them to know what was risked by those men, and I want them to see how, while not perfect, they created the greatest government in human history. They're sure as hell not going to learn it in school.

I'm also reading a book about an African American family who moved from the north back to the south (to live with the grandmother) in the 50s. I want my kids to know where the filter through which black people view the world comes from. I want them to have compassion for everyone's experience and to be considerate when they encounter what may be to them a foreign view. It's not about right or wrong. It's only about compassion.

I also want my kids to recognize a person who is beyond their ability to relate or help or console. Those people exist. They are not worth the effort. Best to smile, recognize the crazy, and move along...but that's another story...

I don't know what else to do. I am not a social justice warrior. I never will be, and in today's political climate that's an indictment. Whatever. The truth is I see it getting worse. We cannot freely express ourselves anymore in America, and that's disturbing. People seem to believe they have a right to be gloriously unoffended. Its not their fault. Everything they see and hear tells them they have this right...but they do not. None of us do.

Honestly a great place to start would be to turn off the TV. Read. Let your own mind form your own opinions rather than being dog-whistled into a viewpoint because your political affiliation. That way you can actually have an informed conversation with the opposition in a way that forces the other side to take you seriously. The problem is that requires work. Nobody wants to do the work...

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

This is it in a nutshell. Very nice post, saintfan!

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Your last sentence is what gets me, and I keep seeing it. I don't think it's true, at all, that no one wants to do the work. I also don't believe that because people don't agree, it automatically means they are responding to a dog whistle. You and I are in a majority of ways aligned in our opinions. But what I keep seeing repeated, here, and elsewhere, is that essentially we are too busy arguing to feel compassion. I can see that lack of compassion coming from the fools in the streets, but not from those of us who are trying to reason with people.

And I think the idea of sticking to the facts, regardless of how anyone "feels" about them is more important than appearing compassionate. I have compassion. It breaks my heart to see the people who have, through no fault of their own, been caught in the middle of the madness and had their lives ruined. And it is for this very reason that I refuse to stop pointing out the facts. Allowing the rhetoric to continue is not going to educate anyone to the foolishness of equating one bad act to an entire system of racism. We don't even know that Derek Chauvin, himself, is a racist. We don't know what his motivations were. Now I know that some will be quick to say "oh, but there are other instances of cops killing blacks". Sure, and more white people are killed by cops than black people are, DESPITE that blacks unfortunately commit far more crimes. That is simply a statement of fact, and I know your opinions plenty well enough to know that you would agree with that. There is no such thing as systemic racism. There are pockets of racism, here and there, and frankly there is just as much black racism as there is white racism, THESE days.

I read something Rezburna said the other day, that was so frustrating to read that I wondered if there was any point in trying to address it. On the subject of "division", he asked when there was a time that we WEREN'T divided. Which totally misses the point. When people like MLK were fighting REAL racism and oppression, there was obviously a great divide. But after that movement, society started to change for the better, at least as far as "race" relations were concerned. But it was right about that time that the Democratic party started working to pulverize black families through systematic demoralization. Instead of letting the black families grow and thrive with their new found freedoms, they were offered free "stuff", minority quotas, and told that they couldn't make it on their own, because the system was still against them. They (still talking about the Democrats) promised to fix whatever it was that they claimed was broken but, for 50 years, have not lifted a finger.

And who do they blame? White people. Specifically, white conservatives. So why did Rezburna's question miss the mark, in my opinion? Because, more than 50 years after the civil rights movement, most white people today barely even know what the big issue was with racism, anyway. They've moved on. But because of the lies the black community has been fed for decades, a great many of them continue to blame white people for their problems TODAY, which have nothing to do with 50 plus years ago. So those who have bought into these lies don't trust white people, and white people, in turn, are often suspicious of black people, even though they have no hatred towards them. My point: We DON'T HAVE to have a divide. But when people blurt out this nonsense narrative the NFL players, BLM, celebrities and the media are pushing, it drives this divide.

I don't know how I, or anyone else, can "compassionately" fight lies that hurt this country, if what we're trying to do right now is anything otherwise. We can't wrap truth in heart covered paper. God said we are to love our neighbors. He even said we are to love our enemies. Love, however, doesn't mean coddling people and meeting them halfway in a lie. I'm all for peaceful resolution, and meaningful conversations. But if every conversation has the precondition that I must first accept the lies of my opponent and work my way toward a "solution" for said lies, then there is no reason to have that conversation. "Systemic" racism is not supported by real life statistics. The common enemy of the public, is the media. They suppress the truth. But a great many of us, contrary to what you said before, ARE able to inform themselves. But when is the "other side" going to make the same effort? That's the real question. I'm seeing a lot of black folks speaking out against this narrative. I'll fight for, and with them. These are people who want to make it, and HAVE made it in life, through their hard work; not waiting on reparations for things of the past that have nothing to do with most people alive today.

Until all people are ready to confront FACTS, and not just their feelings, no one can solve anyone's problems, in my opinion.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

Black Lives Mattering was on display this past week in St. Louis, Chicago, and Baltimore. The love for each other continues to be a beacon to the rest of society, and provides an understanding of their own value for their lives.

Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments
 

There's a quiet dichotomy emerging within black society.