M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Rsanders24 · 09-28-2020, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I disagree with you, and I think you've missed what the article states. He didn't say they killed just Brees' mojo. He said they killed the team's mojo.

It's also not about players intentionally not doing things to spite Brees. It's about the fractured state of the locker room, that he believes, and I would tend to concur, have probably affected that team. Brees gave in to their demands to get by, but after the nasty things that were said to him, it's hard to believe they could ever be a cohesive unit again.

I believe you said something earlier about other teams being undefeated as an example why the Saints shouldn't be affected. I fail to see how that has anything to do with the Saints. Can you name another team who had any player, much less the starting QB, get verbally assaulted by his teammates? All the other players around the league just fell right in line, because they didn't want the backlash, one would assume. But Brees spoke his mind, got attacked, and gave in. The so-called "leader" of the team has now been neutered. Unless you can point to another example of that happening, I don't think any of your arguments hold water, my friend.

Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well?

My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal.

For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away.

Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball.

If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo....

burningmetal · 09-29-2020, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Rsanders24

Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well?

My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal.

For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away.

Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball.

If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo....

There were more than just those two who called Brees out. Those two initiated it and made the biggest stink about it. Lots of players on the Saints, and on other teams, were on twitter either having a tirade, or talking about how disappointed they were in him, and how they couldn't believe he said that. No one stood up for him. So even if others on the team agreed with Drew, they said nothing, because nobody else got called out. Just Drew.

I'm not sure why you're asking me a question that I had already answered before you asked it, pertaining to why the team is fractured if only Drew got called out. The answer is that he's supposed to be the leader. He no longer is. Nobody is rallying behind anyone, and a team without leadership is just a collection of individuals playing for themselves. Payton is every bit as spineless as Drew turned out to be. Couple that with the fact that these guys were probably more emotionally invested in their virtue signaling tour than they were with football all off season, and this is what you get.

I'm not making excuses. I'm not sure if you've been following the forum much, but I'm one of several who no longer care about the Saints, and have not watched a second of the NFL this year. So I'm not in here trying to rationalize the losses in a way to make myself feel better. I have no dog in the race; just giving my opinion, as this was exactly what I expected after all the drama went down with Brees. I didn't see any way the team would recover from their own stupidity and ignorance.

You say it's unprofessional for them to not be able to overcome that. I say they're unprofessional for letting it get to that point, and so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they aren't strong or mature enough to overcome it.

And we are in agreement that Brees should have just stood by what he said. That's just what I've been saying. If it were me, I'd have said "if that's how you really feel about me, then I don't need this team. I'm not changing my principles for your feelings". But he got caught up in the PC cancel culture and by all appearances panicked at the idea of being black balled and vilified. He wouldn't have been vilified by people with a conscience. More people respected Brees before he backed down than those who respect him now. He made a short sighted decision, in my opinion, to save face.

For the record, though I don't know how anyone on the team is playing, I'm sure there are other reasons, aside from what we've discussed, as to why the team is losing. But the expectations coming into the year were sky high before all the mess, and I personally believe the distractions are mostly to blame for the team not coming together better than what their record would indicate.

jeanpierre · 09-29-2020, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rsanders24

Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well?

My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal.

For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away.

Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball.

If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo....

Team chemistry, vibe, mojo is real; it may be irrational at times, but it is very real...

Rsanders24 · 09-29-2020, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Team chemistry, vibe, mojo is real; it may be irrational at times, but it is very real...

I know that team chemistry is real but as I mentioned we wouldn’t be talking about something that happened over the summer if the team was playing better. All this could have and should have been handled better. If they let the media destroy their chemistry then shame on the leaders of this team.

A strong team can overcome disagreements and disappointment. Maybe this team wasn’t a strong as we thought but on field performance as it relates to the coaches and players is what’s hindering this team.

Stats tell the reason why we are 1-2. Defense can’t get off the field and the offense can’t stay on. Payton refuses to stick to the run. These are our main issues all this other stuff is speculation.

The thing that made us dangerous on offense was the intermediate routes in the middle of the field. We no longer have that in our arsenal with Brees. Or WRs have zero YAC. Only AK has YAC because of where he is catching the ball on screens and option route at the line of scrimmage.

09-28-2020, 11:13 PM	#1
Rsanders24 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, LA. Posts: 1,482	Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints Originally Posted by burningmetal I disagree with you, and I think you've missed what the article states. He didn't say they killed just Brees' mojo. He said they killed the team's mojo. It's also not about players intentionally not doing things to spite Brees. It's about the fractured state of the locker room, that he believes, and I would tend to concur, have probably affected that team. Brees gave in to their demands to get by, but after the nasty things that were said to him, it's hard to believe they could ever be a cohesive unit again. I believe you said something earlier about other teams being undefeated as an example why the Saints shouldn't be affected. I fail to see how that has anything to do with the Saints. Can you name another team who had any player, much less the starting QB, get verbally assaulted by his teammates? All the other players around the league just fell right in line, because they didn't want the backlash, one would assume. But Brees spoke his mind, got attacked, and gave in. The so-called "leader" of the team has now been neutered. Unless you can point to another example of that happening, I don't think any of your arguments hold water, my friend. Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well? My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal. For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away. Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball. If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo.... shawnkytonk likes this.

09-29-2020, 01:57 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints Originally Posted by Rsanders24 Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well? My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal. For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away. Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball. If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo.... There were more than just those two who called Brees out. Those two initiated it and made the biggest stink about it. Lots of players on the Saints, and on other teams, were on twitter either having a tirade, or talking about how disappointed they were in him, and how they couldn't believe he said that. No one stood up for him. So even if others on the team agreed with Drew, they said nothing, because nobody else got called out. Just Drew. I'm not sure why you're asking me a question that I had already answered before you asked it, pertaining to why the team is fractured if only Drew got called out. The answer is that he's supposed to be the leader. He no longer is. Nobody is rallying behind anyone, and a team without leadership is just a collection of individuals playing for themselves. Payton is every bit as spineless as Drew turned out to be. Couple that with the fact that these guys were probably more emotionally invested in their virtue signaling tour than they were with football all off season, and this is what you get. I'm not making excuses. I'm not sure if you've been following the forum much, but I'm one of several who no longer care about the Saints, and have not watched a second of the NFL this year. So I'm not in here trying to rationalize the losses in a way to make myself feel better. I have no dog in the race; just giving my opinion, as this was exactly what I expected after all the drama went down with Brees. I didn't see any way the team would recover from their own stupidity and ignorance. You say it's unprofessional for them to not be able to overcome that. I say they're unprofessional for letting it get to that point, and so it should come as no surprise to anyone that they aren't strong or mature enough to overcome it. And we are in agreement that Brees should have just stood by what he said. That's just what I've been saying. If it were me, I'd have said "if that's how you really feel about me, then I don't need this team. I'm not changing my principles for your feelings". But he got caught up in the PC cancel culture and by all appearances panicked at the idea of being black balled and vilified. He wouldn't have been vilified by people with a conscience. More people respected Brees before he backed down than those who respect him now. He made a short sighted decision, in my opinion, to save face. For the record, though I don't know how anyone on the team is playing, I'm sure there are other reasons, aside from what we've discussed, as to why the team is losing. But the expectations coming into the year were sky high before all the mess, and I personally believe the distractions are mostly to blame for the team not coming together better than what their record would indicate. jnormand, Danno, Budsdrinker and 3 others like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-29-2020, 08:00 AM	#3
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints Originally Posted by Rsanders24 Based on that statement which was directed at two players and pertains to three that were mentioned, this was about Brees. Two players called Brees out. You are assuming that the entire team was torn on this matter when based on what we know, but everyone only mentions Brees as the one who was slighted or damaged by this situation. So if Brees is the only one who everyone says is the victim, why is the team as a whole not playing well? My point is people need to stop making this an excuse. They supposedly resolved this during the summer. If this fractured this team then they weren’t that strong to start with. I don’t have to be your friend to accomplish a team goal. For a group of professionals that is not acceptable and for a player of Brees statue, along with other veterans and captains on this team. I think/hope that they/he could overcome this. If it was that much of an issue, as I said Brees should have stood on what he said and if they didn’t like it, retire. Why put yourself through all this. If as you said he let another man “neuter him” then he should have manned up. As I said before, Brees could have simply stood on his belief or walked away. Brees doesn’t play defense and he isn’t having issues with timing. He is however not able to push the ball down the field and has been inaccurate on some of his throws when he is trying to put some velocity on the ball. If this team was 3-0 or even 2-1 this wouldn’t even be a conversation. Now the reason we are losing is because of mojo.... Team chemistry, vibe, mojo is real; it may be irrational at times, but it is very real... MatthewT, Rugby Saint II, burningmetal and 1 others like this.

09-29-2020, 10:42 AM	#4
Rsanders24 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, LA. Posts: 1,482	Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Team chemistry, vibe, mojo is real; it may be irrational at times, but it is very real... I know that team chemistry is real but as I mentioned we wouldn’t be talking about something that happened over the summer if the team was playing better. All this could have and should have been handled better. If they let the media destroy their chemistry then shame on the leaders of this team. A strong team can overcome disagreements and disappointment. Maybe this team wasn’t a strong as we thought but on field performance as it relates to the coaches and players is what’s hindering this team. Stats tell the reason why we are 1-2. Defense can’t get off the field and the offense can’t stay on. Payton refuses to stick to the run. These are our main issues all this other stuff is speculation. The thing that made us dangerous on offense was the intermediate routes in the middle of the field. We no longer have that in our arsenal with Brees. Or WRs have zero YAC. Only AK has YAC because of where he is catching the ball on screens and option route at the line of scrimmage.