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M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Danno The Saints killed their mojo this offseason when Malcolm Jenkins and Michael Thomas executed a Black Lives Matter-inspired assassination of Drew Brees’ character. Brees has never been the most talented NFL QB. His intangibles, particularly his ...

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Old 09-28-2020, 10:29 PM   #1
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by Danno View Post
The Saints killed their mojo this offseason when Malcolm Jenkins and Michael Thomas executed a Black Lives Matter-inspired assassination of Drew Brees’ character.

Brees has never been the most talented NFL QB. His intangibles, particularly his leadership, are what made him great. The guy’s reputation was impeccable.

He was the guy New Orleans and the Saints rallied around. Jenkins and Thomas ruined that when they publicly criticized Brees because Brees had the audacity to defend standing for the national anthem.

Brees is no longer the leader of the Saints, who fell to 1-2 Sunday night. He’s a player on the team. It’s a tragedy what Jenkins and Thomas did to Brees, the NFL’s modern-day Walter Payton.

If the Saints miss the playoffs, blame Jenkins, Thomas and the media race hustlers.

https://www.outkick.com/nfl-truths-r...ore-cardi-bee/
...3) The Saints killed their mojo this offseason when Malcolm Jenkins and Michael Thomas executed a Black Lives Matter-inspired assassination of Drew Brees’ character.

Brees has never been the most talented NFL QB. His intangibles, particularly his leadership, are what made him great. The guy’s reputation was impeccable.

He was the guy New Orleans and the Saints rallied around. Jenkins and Thomas ruined that when they publicly criticized Brees because Brees had the audacity to defend standing for the national anthem.

Brees is no longer the leader of the Saints, who fell to 1-2 Sunday night. He’s a player on the team. It’s a tragedy what Jenkins and Thomas did to Brees, the NFL’s modern-day Walter Payton.

If the Saints miss the playoffs, blame Jenkins, Thomas and the media race hustlers...


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Old 09-29-2020, 12:49 AM   #2
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Drew lost respect when he allowed himself to be bullied and manipulated, but this incident is not the only reason for the suckage up to this point.

We have lost the ability to say we are going to have to agree to disagree, and walk away. People can push their agenda all day long, but at the end of the day, bullying or lawmaking can't force people to genuinely think or feel the way you want them to. Freewill is what sets us apart.

A team is not one person, Drew shouldn't have caved and those painting the scarlet letter on Drew should have said we don't agree with your view, but respect you and let's move forward.

Winston is not the answer at this point. We lost the leagues best receiver, the D lacks leadership to pull the team together on the field. Sloppy play, penalty shots to the foot, there are so many things going on here.

I do feel we will still win out as the team starts to sync.

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Old 09-29-2020, 08:47 AM   #3
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Team chemistry is very real. It’s sensitive too. The article states Jenkins and Thomas killed the chemistry by publicly disagreeing with Brees. I’d say Brees killed the chemistry by being oblivious to the way his teammates and NFL colleagues would react to his statement. None of the other QB’s in the league had this problem this year. Brees decided to be Captain America.

Now when they had the team meetings I do believe the issue was solved. Losing and poor play opens up old wounds. Brees isn’t playing well. Most of us who are watching these games objectively can see that. So you have a 1st overall pick sitting on the bench. Everybody knows the playbook opens ALL the way back up if he hits the field.

Brees is playing like he knows somebody is coming for his spot. Like he’s scared to make a mistake and get benched. He did that to himself. You can’t make a statement contrary to the beliefs of your roster then come out there and check down to Kamara 20 times a game. Blaming Thomas and Jenkins for reacting to a public statement is odd when Brees never had to make the statement in the first place.

Whitlock is right. He isn’t the leader anymore. He did lose the locker room, but that’s not because of Jenkins or Thomas. It’s because he couldn’t read the room any better than he’s reading defenses right now.
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:10 AM   #4
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
Team chemistry is very real. It’s sensitive too. The article states Jenkins and Thomas killed the chemistry by publicly disagreeing with Brees. I’d say Brees killed the chemistry by being oblivious to the way his teammates and NFL colleagues would react to his statement. None of the other QB’s in the league had this problem this year. Brees decided to be Captain America.

Now when they had the team meetings I do believe the issue was solved. Losing and poor play opens up old wounds. Brees isn’t playing well. Most of us who are watching these games objectively can see that. So you have a 1st overall pick sitting on the bench. Everybody knows the playbook opens ALL the way back up if he hits the field.

Brees is playing like he knows somebody is coming for his spot. Like he’s scared to make a mistake and get benched. He did that to himself. You can’t make a statement contrary to the beliefs of your roster then come out there and check down to Kamara 20 times a game. Blaming Thomas and Jenkins for reacting to a public statement is odd when Brees never had to make the statement in the first place.

Whitlock is right. He isn’t the leader anymore. He did lose the locker room, but that’s not because of Jenkins or Thomas. It’s because he couldn’t read the room any better than he’s reading defenses right now.
I'd just like to know how you expected him to "read" the locker room, when he had already made these statements a couple of years earlier, and no one blinked.

YOU seem oblivious to the fact that it suddenly became "cool" to shame anyone who doesn't believe in the BLM propaganda and all of the bells and whistles that come with it. Brees was asked a question. A question that, again, he had already answered before, with no backlash. He answered again, gave a thoughtful response- one that I personally even thought was a bit TOO polite, as he merely stated that he disagreed with the method of protest, and not the cause- and never called any person out, individually.

If the players have a problem with him saying "look, just not during the anthem, where we pay respects to the people who paid for our freedom", then that's on them. All I ever hear is that we should just "listen" to what these players are saying. What about listening to the other side of the argument, then? The players say "it's not about the flag". Nobody is saying it's about the flag, itself. It's clearly about what it represents to them. We've had this discussion, and heard all the arguments from both sides. But Drew wasn't even taking a side. He was basically saying "if you have a grievance, that's fine, but the flag isn't about any perceived inequalities, it's about us, as Americans. Do your protest at a more appropriate time."

In other words, while the flag might mean one thing to the other players, it means something else to Drew. He wasn't telling them their cause was right or wrong which, again, was a little passive for my taste, but I understood that he was trying to walk a fine line. He was merely saying he didn't think that was the right way to go about pushing their cause. I think that is something that grown men should have been easily able to agree to disagree on, at worst.

He didn't owe it to them to read their minds and respect THEIR opinions, if they couldn't respect his. That's not the way it works.

Is Brees diminished, physically? Of course he is. I was trying to point out his decline years ago, and was almost universally labeled as a hater, as people were telling me he was going to play till he was at least 45, and dominate, because nutrition, and core workouts and some other nonsense that was supposed to make him not age. But his noodle arm isn't exactly a new phenomenon that suddenly appeared this year, is it? So why is everyone talking about how the team is playing like crap? What's different from last year?
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:24 AM   #5
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I'd just like to know how you expected him to "read" the locker room, when he had already made these statements a couple of years earlier, and no one blinked.

YOU seem oblivious to the fact that it suddenly became "cool" to shame anyone who doesn't believe in the BLM propaganda and all of the bells and whistles that come with it. Brees was asked a question. A question that, again, he had already answered before, with no backlash. He answered again, gave a thoughtful response- one that I personally even thought was a bit TOO polite, as he merely stated that he disagreed with the method of protest, and not the cause- and never called any person out, individually.

If the players have a problem with him saying "look, just not during the anthem, where we pay respects to the people who paid for our freedom", then that's on them. All I ever hear is that we should just "listen" to what these players are saying. What about listening to the other side of the argument, then? The players say "it's not about the flag". Nobody is saying it's about the flag, itself. It's clearly about what it represents to them. We've had this discussion, and heard all the arguments from both sides. But Drew wasn't even taking a side. He was basically saying "if you have a grievance, that's fine, but the flag isn't about any perceived inequalities, it's about us, as Americans. Do your protest at a more appropriate time."

In other words, while the flag might mean one thing to the other players, it means something else to Drew. He wasn't telling them their cause was right or wrong which, again, was a little passive for my taste, but I understood that he was trying to walk a fine line. He was merely saying he didn't think that was the right way to go about pushing their cause. I think that is something that grown men should have been easily able to agree to disagree on, at worst.

He didn't owe it to them to read their minds and respect THEIR opinions, if they couldn't respect his. That's not the way it works.

Is Brees diminished, physically? Of course he is. I was trying to point out his decline years ago, and was almost universally labeled as a hater, as people were telling me he was going to play till he was at least 45, and dominate, because nutrition, and core workouts and some other nonsense that was supposed to make him not age. But his noodle arm isn't exactly a new phenomenon that suddenly appears this year, is it? So why is everyone talking about how the team is playing like crap? What's different from last year?
I’m sure you’d find me co-signing your comments about his decline. Again, anybody being objective could see it coming. When you hit the age wall it’s drastic.

As far as him making the same statement a few years ago, it’s 2020. Things change from year to year...even day to day. I’m not surprised he didn’t sense the shift because I see the same thing when he’s in the pocket. That’s like me commenting on this predominantly Conservative forum and expecting back up when I start talking about the issues that matter to me. On the contrary. We’ve had many battles over every painstaking detail of said issues. I know what I’m getting myself into as soon as I leave a comment.

It’s not about him owing them. It’s about being a leader of men. He thought he could say whatever and his troops would rally behind him and he thought wrong. The troops said **** you. That’s on him and nobody else. Just because you’re asked a question doesn’t mean you have to answer it. No comment is simple. You can even tell reporters not to ask you about certain things. Again, no other QB had this issue. If you wanna lead some **** you better learn how to play politics.

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Old 09-29-2020, 09:34 AM   #6
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
I’m sure you’d find me co-signing your comments about his decline. Again, anybody being objective could see it coming. When you hit the age wall it’s drastic.

As far as him making the same statement a few years ago, it’s 2020. Things change from year to year...even day to day. I’m not surprised he didn’t sense the shift because I see the same thing when he’s in the pocket. That’s like me commenting on this predominantly Conservative forum and expecting back up when I start talking about the issues that matter to me. On the contrary. We’ve had many battles over every painstaking detail of said issues. I know what I’m getting myself into as soon as I leave a comment.

It’s not about him owing them. It’s about being a leader of men. He thought he could say whatever and his troops would rally behind him and he thought wrong. The troops said **** you. That’s on him and nobody else. Just because you’re asked a question doesn’t mean you have to answer it. No comment is simple. You can even tell reporters not to ask you about certain things. Again, no other QB had this issue. If you wanna lead some **** you better learn how to play politics.
You make a couple of fatal errors. One, that you believe it's cool for grown men to drastically shift in their ability to tolerate the same comment from just 3 years or so ago, to now. You make it sound like he said something in 1989, and now, 31 years later, he says it again. I mean, that's just absurd.

Second, sports aren't supposed to even be about politics. You're sitting there telling him he should learn to play politics, but these guys played the worst "game" of politics imaginable when they started protesting during the anthem. No one prompted them. Drew was asked a question. And he gave a VERY politically correct answer. He went out of his way to not disrespect their cause. He just wanted the method to move away from it's current form. And if they didn't have a problem with him saying that before, why now? When did being a "leader of men" start to involve mind reading capabilities? His job was to lead a football team. How much time do you think they spend talking about each other's feelings?
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If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:44 AM   #7
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
You make a couple of fatal errors. One, that you believe it's cool for grown men to drastically shift in their ability to tolerate the same comment from just 3 years or so ago, to now. You make it sound like he said something in 1989, and now, 31 years later, he says it again. I mean, that's just absurd.

Second, sports aren't supposed to even be about politics. You're sitting there telling him he should learn to play politics, but these guys played the worst "game" of politics imaginable when they started protesting during the anthem. No one prompted them. Drew was asked a question. And he gave a VERY politically correct answer. He went out of his way to not disrespect their cause. He just wanted the method to move away from it's current form. And if they didn't have a problem with him saying that before, why now? When did being a "leader of men" start to involve mind reading capabilities? His job was to lead a football team. How much time do you think they spend talking about each other's feelings?
I don’t know how it’s a fatal error when it is what it is evidenced by the reaction he got. Three years later these men are more emboldened in their stances and are unafraid to be heard. Attitudes changed. There’s no other way to put it out. Information is shared much faster in from 2017 to 2020 than from 1986 to 1989.

Also, if sports aren’t about politics then they never should have started showing the anthem and making a big spectacle out of it for every single game. That was a political decision.

He said what he said. He got the reaction he got. If he hadn’t of said what he said it wouldn’t be an issue. His response was very politically correct, but this is the age of sound bites and headlines. This **** isn’t anything new. I’m sure he’s had PR and media training.

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Old 09-29-2020, 12:08 PM   #8
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
You make a couple of fatal errors. One, that you believe it's cool for grown men to drastically shift in their ability to tolerate the same comment from just 3 years or so ago, to now. You make it sound like he said something in 1989, and now, 31 years later, he says it again. I mean, that's just absurd.

Second, sports aren't supposed to even be about politics. You're sitting there telling him he should learn to play politics, but these guys played the worst "game" of politics imaginable when they started protesting during the anthem. No one prompted them. Drew was asked a question. And he gave a VERY politically correct answer. He went out of his way to not disrespect their cause. He just wanted the method to move away from it's current form. And if they didn't have a problem with him saying that before, why now? When did being a "leader of men" start to involve mind reading capabilities? His job was to lead a football team. How much time do you think they spend talking about each other's feelings?
We agree on a lot of subjects...even some on this thread. I totally agree that Sports and politics don't belong together but the BLM movement gave us no option. I agree that Drew tried to be diplomatic but no one respected Drew's opinion if it didn't align with their predetermined notions. That is stubborn. See it my way or we'll turn All BLM supporters against you and your family.

Like you said I wish he had stuck to his guns and used it as motivation. It's no longer us against them...it's us against Drew. Drew Brees sat alone on the bench. Previously he was the unquestioned leader. It's a shame that non football agendas can make a team dysfunctional.
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:26 AM   #9
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
Team chemistry is very real. It’s sensitive too. The article states Jenkins and Thomas killed the chemistry by publicly disagreeing with Brees. I’d say Brees killed the chemistry by being oblivious to the way his teammates and NFL colleagues would react to his statement. None of the other QB’s in the league had this problem this year. Brees decided to be Captain America.

Now when they had the team meetings I do believe the issue was solved. Losing and poor play opens up old wounds. Brees isn’t playing well. Most of us who are watching these games objectively can see that. So you have a 1st overall pick sitting on the bench. Everybody knows the playbook opens ALL the way back up if he hits the field.

Brees is playing like he knows somebody is coming for his spot. Like he’s scared to make a mistake and get benched. He did that to himself. You can’t make a statement contrary to the beliefs of your roster then come out there and check down to Kamara 20 times a game. Blaming Thomas and Jenkins for reacting to a public statement is odd when Brees never had to make the statement in the first place.

Whitlock is right. He isn’t the leader anymore. He did lose the locker room, but that’s not because of Jenkins or Thomas. It’s because he couldn’t read the room any better than he’s reading defenses right now.
You keep saying the same thing, just worded differently. "Well if Brees was a real leader he should have read the room. If he was a real leader he shouldn't have given his opinion." To which I would say if his "teammates" were better men they wouldn't have reacted the way they did to someone expressing an opinion they disagree with. Brees' initial statement wasn't hateful. It was carefully worded so as to give his opinion without trying to overtly offend anyone. And it was a statement he made in response to a direct question. Its not like he hopped on twitter to give an unsolicited opinion.

Unfortunately, the timeout generation is reaching "adulthood." The kids whose parents allowed them to have public meltdowns without consequence. These people are conditioned to believe that if they scream loud enough they will get their way. They never learned how to work through their feelings in a productive manner, they didn't learn to overcome adversity. They threw tantrums and got participation trophies instead. They expect all opinions to be equally valid, as long as its the "correct" opinion. They want everyone to be allowed to have their own "truth" unless that truth hurts their feelings. They're basically still children from a mental and emotional standpoint..but we're supposed to look up to these people, listen to them and believe they have all the answers. Nah bro, miss me with that sh*t.

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Old 09-29-2020, 09:34 AM   #10
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Re: M Jenkins and Michael Thomas killed the Saints

Originally Posted by frydaddy View Post
You keep saying the same thing, just worded differently. "Well if Brees was a real leader he should have read the room. If he was a real leader he shouldn't have given his opinion." To which I would say if his "teammates" were better men they wouldn't have reacted the way they did to someone expressing an opinion they disagree with. Brees' initial statement wasn't hateful. It was carefully worded so as to give his opinion without trying to overtly offend anyone. And it was a statement he made in response to a direct question. Its not like he hopped on twitter to give an unsolicited opinion.

Unfortunately, the timeout generation is reaching "adulthood." The kids whose parents allowed them to have public meltdowns without consequence. These people are conditioned to believe that if they scream loud enough they will get their way. They never learned how to work through their feelings in a productive manner, they didn't learn to overcome adversity. They threw tantrums and got participation trophies instead. They expect all opinions to be equally valid, as long as its the "correct" opinion. They want everyone to be allowed to have their own "truth" unless that truth hurts their feelings. They're basically still children from a mental and emotional standpoint..but we're supposed to look up to these people, listen to them and believe they have all the answers. Nah bro, miss me with that sh*t.
Sometimes it’s not what you say, it’s when or how you say it. Again, that’s Leadership 101. If your wife asks if she looks fat in that dress it’s on you if you say yeah. Now imagine if she asks you that right after you got caught cheating and y’all are working on your relationship. You better lie if you don’t want those divorce papers.

As far as the next generation, the youth is always the vanguard of change. That just is what it is. It doesn’t matter if we agree with it or not, it’s inevitable. Old **** gets phased out. Brees is the old ****.

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