Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****

K Major · 10-27-2020, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Allen is getting blamed for the play calls too often on here. He isn't calling plays allowing for people to run wide open, he isn't calling plays that involve missed tackles, he isn't calling plays that involve PI. Position coaches have more responsibility over the poor performance than the play calling.

Dennis Allen's forte with the Saints is the secondary. As Def Coordinator, fix it or find replacements for him and Glenn.

Players gotta make plays. Coaches gotta coach up talent. Its a complete circle.

Allen's name doesn't get mentioned enough for poor performances from this group.

blackangold · 10-28-2020, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Dennis Allen's forte with the Saints is the secondary. As Def Coordinator, fix it or find replacements for him and Glenn.

Players gotta make plays. Coaches gotta coach up talent. Its a complete circle.

Allen's name doesn't get mentioned enough for poor performances from this group.

How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team?

Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong?

K Major · 10-28-2020, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team?

Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong?

B&G,

See post #10, last sentence.

It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched.

Lattimore - regression since rookie season.
Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage.
MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO.
PRob - see above
Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed.
Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO.
Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress.
PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride.
Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start

Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long?

SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

blackangold · 10-28-2020, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

B&G,

See post #10, last sentence.

It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched.

Lattimore - regression since rookie season.
Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage.
MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO.
PRob - see above
Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed.
Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO.
Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress.
PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride.
Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start

Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long?

SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

Is your solution that these players who are all vets need a more simplified defense because they don't understand?
Or
Are you saying all of these players should be benched and they just aren't pulling the trigger?

I guess we aren't taking into account the improvements Allen has made with this team...

Every year since Allen has taken over he has improved the D.
2015- ranked 31st
2016- 27th
2017- 17th
2018- 14th
2019- 11th
2020- so far 7th

Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards?

My point of view- our locker-room is cancerous and that is allowing sloppy undisciplined play to occur because players aren't taking lead and captains in the locker-room aren't holding each other accountable.

AsylumGuido · 10-28-2020, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Is your solution that these players who are all vets need a more simplified defense because they don't understand?
Or
Are you saying all of these players should be benched and they just aren't pulling the trigger?

I guess we aren't taking into account the improvements Allen has made with this team...

Every year since Allen has taken over he has improved the D.
2015- ranked 31st
2016- 27th
2017- 17th
2018- 14th
2019- 11th
2020- so far 7th

Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards?

My point of view- our locker-room is cancerous and that is allowing sloppy undisciplined play to occur because players aren't taking lead and captains in the locker-room aren't holding each other accountable.

When were you able to spend time in the locker room to come to that conclusion? Wouldn't that violate COVID protocols?

K Major · 10-28-2020, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards?

7th? LOL .. how can Dennis Allen continuously put our secondary in zone coverage get ranked that high? Ultimately though, it is a results-based league. If the defense cannot improve on the back end, changes need to be considered.

The problem is we don't have very much turnover (J. Jenkins & Baun being the only 2 new players; M. Jenkins played under DA while here the first time) and yet we constantly have guys out of place or making the wrong reads. These guys should know this system by heart and yet they look like they are playing a brand new system every game. SIMPLIFY THE DEFENSE. Get guys on the same page.

That is completely on coaching. If you don't see this, not sure what to tell you.

gosaints1 · 10-29-2020, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

7th? LOL .. how can Dennis Allen continuously put our secondary in zone coverage get ranked that high?...

Depends on what single metrics you used to evaluate the defense. Hell, statistically, I can make Dallas’ defense “appear” to be better than what it actually is. But..., the eye test never fails my friend. Ppl pay to much attention to quantitative analyses these days, myself included, lol. But the eye test? It just doesn’t fail.

A bad pass defense is a bad pass defense. Allowing more passing TD’s than any other team in the league just isn’t championship level football. Play has been bad also. I’ve seen more defensive backs late to their assignments than I’ve ever seen before. That’s not coaching, those are just missed assignments. I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen and regardless of who to blame, ultimately it’s either his scheme failure or his leadership failure that has allowed the defense to be rock bottom in passing TD’s allowed.

blackangold · 10-29-2020, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

That is completely on coaching. If you don't see this, not sure what to tell you.

If you can't defend your position I understand...

K Major · 10-29-2020, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

If you can't defend your position I understand...

Watch more games.

10-28-2020, 12:35 PM	#2
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major Dennis Allen's forte with the Saints is the secondary. As Def Coordinator, fix it or find replacements for him and** Glenn. Players gotta make plays. Coaches gotta coach up talent. Its a complete circle. Allen's name doesn't get mentioned enough for poor performances from this group. How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team? Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong?

10-28-2020, 01:13 PM	#3
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold** How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team? Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong? B&G, See post #10, last sentence. It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched. Lattimore - regression since rookie season. Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage. MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO. PRob - see above Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed. Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO. Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress. PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride. Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long? SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

10-28-2020, 03:17 PM	#4
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major** B&G, See post #10, last sentence. It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched. Lattimore - regression since rookie season. Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage. MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO. PRob - see above Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed. Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO. Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress. PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride. Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long? SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up. Is your solution that these players who are all vets need a more simplified defense because they don't understand? Or Are you saying all of these players should be benched and they just aren't pulling the trigger? I guess we aren't taking into account the improvements Allen has made with this team... Every year since Allen has taken over he has improved the D. 2015- ranked 31st 2016- 27th 2017- 17th 2018- 14th 2019- 11th 2020- so far 7th Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards? My point of view- our locker-room is cancerous and that is allowing sloppy undisciplined play to occur because players aren't taking lead and captains in the locker-room aren't holding each other accountable.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

10-28-2020, 03:23 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold Is your solution that these players who are all vets need a more simplified defense because they don't understand? Or Are you saying all of these players should be benched and they just aren't pulling the trigger? I guess we aren't taking into account the improvements Allen has made with this team... Every year since Allen has taken over he has improved the D. 2015- ranked 31st 2016- 27th 2017- 17th 2018- 14th 2019- 11th 2020- so far 7th Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards? My point of view- our locker-room is cancerous** and that is allowing sloppy undisciplined play to occur because players aren't taking lead and captains in the locker-room aren't holding each other accountable. When were you able to spend time in the locker room to come to that conclusion? Wouldn't that violate COVID protocols?

10-28-2020, 03:35 PM	#6
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold** Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards? 7th? LOL .. how can Dennis Allen continuously put our secondary in zone coverage get ranked that high? Ultimately though, it is a results-based league. If the defense cannot improve on the back end, changes need to be considered. The problem is we don't have very much turnover (J. Jenkins & Baun being the only 2 new players; M. Jenkins played under DA while here the first time) and yet we constantly have guys out of place or making the wrong reads. These guys should know this system by heart and yet they look like they are playing a brand new system every game. SIMPLIFY THE DEFENSE. Get guys on the same page. That is completely on coaching. If you don't see this, not sure what to tell you.

10-27-2020, 10:54 AM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold Allen is getting blamed for the play calls too often on here. He isn't calling plays allowing for people to run wide open, he isn't calling plays that involve missed tackles, he isn't calling plays that involve PI. Position coaches have more responsibility over the poor performance than the play calling. Dennis Allen's forte with the Saints is the secondary. As Def Coordinator, fix it or find replacements for him and** Glenn. Players gotta make plays. Coaches gotta coach up talent. Its a complete circle. Allen's name doesn't get mentioned enough for poor performances from this group. Rugby Saint II, gosaints1 and Lord_Saint83 like this.

10-29-2020, 08:28 AM	#7
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major** 7th? LOL .. how can Dennis Allen continuously put our secondary in zone coverage get ranked that high?... Depends on what single metrics you used to evaluate the defense. Hell, statistically, I can make Dallas’ defense “appear” to be better than what it actually is. But..., the eye test never fails my friend. Ppl pay to much attention to quantitative analyses these days, myself included, lol. But the eye test? It just doesn’t fail. A bad pass defense is a bad pass defense. Allowing more passing TD’s than any other team in the league just isn’t championship level football. Play has been bad also. I’ve seen more defensive backs late to their assignments than I’ve ever seen before. That’s not coaching, those are just missed assignments. I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen and regardless of who to blame, ultimately it’s either his scheme failure or his leadership failure that has allowed the defense to be rock bottom in passing TD’s allowed.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-29-2020, 12:57 PM	#8
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major** That is completely on coaching. If you don't see this, not sure what to tell you. If you can't defend your position I understand...

10-29-2020, 03:30 PM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold** If you can't defend your position I understand... Watch more games.