Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****

rezburna · 10-27-2020, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve.

I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion?

Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me.

gosaints1 · 10-27-2020, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

There’s issues in the secondary. No doubt about it, but this far from the worse we seen and it’s not even close to being the worse defense in the NFL. The Seahawks are winning games with that sorry ass defense they have. Let’s look at the Panthers game.

The Panthers rushed for 37 yards! 2.6 yards per carry. This defense continues to be ELITE when it comes to stopping the run year in and year out. We gave up 246 yards through the air which isn’t too bad. We gave up 24 points, which is really decent and right around our average in games when Brees doesn’t throw a costly interception that results in 6. It’s really not that bad.

DVOA has the Saints at 10th overall, 16th vs the pass and 4th vs the run. I understand the logic behind saying Dennis Allen isn’t getting it done though. What really kills the Saints is the number of passing TD’s allowed. 2d to last in the league with 17 passing TD’s allowed..., only Atlanta is worse with 19, but they’ve played one more game. That stat just has to get better. And the last three games have shown the stat worsening. I’m with K on this one, I don’t think it’s a lack of talent on the field. That’s a bad, bad, very bad stat to have on your DC resume’, imho. It has to improve.

papz · 10-27-2020, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year.

It's NOT the players. It's what they're being asked to do.

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

rezburna · 10-27-2020, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by papz

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

The shoulder tackles are definitely annoying.

K Major · 10-27-2020, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by papz

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

But how many times have you heard CSP at his post-game media coverage say, “It starts with us, the coaching staff”.

Well then …

K Major · 10-27-2020, 01:29 PM

Papz,

I totally get it on the players though. If one player regresses, the blame likely falls on the player. If the whole unit regresses, it points toward coaching.

st thomas · 10-27-2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

There’s issues in the secondary. No doubt about it, but this far from the worse we seen and it’s not even close to being the worse defense in the NFL. The Seahawks are winning games with that sorry ass defense they have. Let’s look at the Panthers game.

The Panthers rushed for 37 yards! 2.6 yards per carry. This defense continues to be ELITE when it comes to stopping the run year in and year out. We gave up 246 yards through the air which isn’t too bad. We gave up 24 points, which is really decent and right around our average in games when Brees doesn’t throw a costly interception that results in 6. It’s really not that bad.

Rez, they were one player away named McCafery that would change that outcome possibly. Just saying our troubles aren’t over By a long shot. DA needs a foot in his asre if u ask me. I’m fed up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

st thomas · 10-27-2020, 02:53 PM

I heard deuce mc commit on I believe it’s Marcus Williams that it’s time to pull that dude he can’t correct his play it’s time to move on

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

K Major · 10-27-2020, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by st thomas

I heard deuce mc commit on I believe it’s Marcus Williams that it’s time to pull that dude he can’t correct his play it’s time to move on

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deuce, Hebert and even Swilling "hinted" at it. His blunders are starting to be called out by guys who have played the game. Tackling, coverage lapses you name it.

Try MJ or Swearinger at Free Safety if you don't plan on making a trade before the deadline.

You can't continue to hold Marcus Williams hand forever.

rezburna · 10-27-2020, 04:44 PM

I honestly don’t know why Earl Thomas isn’t here. The Saints want to run the Cover 1/Cover 3 style defense that Seattle ran but with more emphasis on Cover 1...so why not go get the guy that’s used to it? That’s his specialty. He can handle the center fielder style of play.

10-27-2020, 12:10 PM	#11
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,662	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat** Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve. I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion? Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me. WW_Who_Dat and K Major like this.
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10-27-2020, 12:24 PM	#12
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by rezburna** There’s issues in the secondary. No doubt about it, but this far from the worse we seen and it’s not even close to being the worse defense in the NFL. The Seahawks are winning games with that sorry ass defense they have. Let’s look at the Panthers game. The Panthers rushed for 37 yards! 2.6 yards per carry. This defense continues to be ELITE when it comes to stopping the run year in and year out. We gave up 246 yards through the air which isn’t too bad. We gave up 24 points, which is really decent and right around our average in games when Brees doesn’t throw a costly interception that results in 6. It’s really not that bad. DVOA has the Saints at 10th overall, 16th vs the pass and 4th vs the run. I understand the logic behind saying Dennis Allen isn’t getting it done though. What really kills the Saints is the number of passing TD’s allowed. 2d to last in the league with 17 passing TD’s allowed..., only Atlanta is worse with 19, but they’ve played one more game. That stat just has to get better. And the last three games have shown the stat worsening. I’m with K on this one, I don’t think it’s a lack of talent on the field. That’s a bad, bad, very bad stat to have on your DC resume’, imho. It has to improve. rezburna likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-27-2020, 12:55 PM	#13
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,687	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year. It's NOT** the players. It's what they're being asked to do. The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays. Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-27-2020, 12:57 PM	#14
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,662	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by papz** The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays. The shoulder tackles are definitely annoying.

10-27-2020, 01:27 PM	#15
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,053 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by papz** The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays. But how many times have you heard CSP at his post-game media coverage say, “It starts with us, the coaching staff”. Well then …

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10-27-2020, 01:29 PM	#16
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,053 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like **** Papz, I totally get it on the players though. If one player regresses, the blame likely falls on the player. If the whole unit regresses, it points toward coaching. gosaints1 likes this.

10-27-2020, 02:49 PM	#17
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by rezburna** There’s issues in the secondary. No doubt about it, but this far from the worse we seen and it’s not even close to being the worse defense in the NFL. The Seahawks are winning games with that sorry ass defense they have. Let’s look at the Panthers game. The Panthers rushed for 37 yards! 2.6 yards per carry. This defense continues to be ELITE when it comes to stopping the run year in and year out. We gave up 246 yards through the air which isn’t too bad. We gave up 24 points, which is really decent and right around our average in games when Brees doesn’t throw a costly interception that results in 6. It’s really not that bad. Rez, they were one player away named McCafery that would change that outcome possibly. Just saying our troubles aren’t over By a long shot. DA needs a foot in his asre if u ask me. I’m fed up Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-27-2020, 02:53 PM	#18
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like **** I heard deuce mc commit on I believe it’s Marcus Williams that it’s time to pull that dude he can’t correct his play it’s time to move on Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-27-2020, 03:27 PM	#19
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,053 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by st thomas** I heard deuce mc commit on I believe it’s Marcus Williams that it’s time to pull that dude he can’t correct his play it’s time to move on Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Deuce, Hebert and even Swilling "hinted" at it. His blunders are starting to be called out by guys who have played the game. Tackling, coverage lapses you name it. Try MJ or Swearinger at Free Safety if you don't plan on making a trade before the deadline. You can't continue to hold Marcus Williams hand forever. WW_Who_Dat and rezburna like this.

10-27-2020, 04:44 PM	#20
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,662	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like **** I honestly don’t know why Earl Thomas isn’t here. The Saints want to run the Cover 1/Cover 3 style defense that Seattle ran but with more emphasis on Cover 1...so why not go get the guy that’s used to it? That’s his specialty. He can handle the center fielder style of play.