KC Plan Against Kamara

AsylumGuido · 12-24-2020, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Vikings on tomorrow.

I'll be curious to see what the game plan will be offensively w/ Sean P.

The game plan and what plays are actually executed during the game can differ quite a bit. That's the point Coach Weis was trying to make. I have zero doubt the game plan is ALWAYS to run the ball as much as possible. But Payton's philosophy has ALWAYS been to take what the defense offers. It all comes down to execution whether the play is a run or a pass.

WW_Who_Dat · 12-24-2020, 08:40 AM

It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working.
We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box.

Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws.

With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws.

But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version
Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert.

AsylumGuido · 12-24-2020, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working.
We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box.

Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws.

With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws.

But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version
Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert.

Your eyes do not deceive you. You are seeing the same thing I am seeing.

TheOak · 12-25-2020, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working.
We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box.

Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws.

With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws.

But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version
Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert.

I’m only a run, run, run guy when you are up against a team that allows the run but nearly leads the league in interceptions, and 0-6 passing and an INT later we are still trying to throw.

You can focus on Drews arm if you wish but even if he is throwing like his arm was blessed by the baby Jesus himself, and our line is blocking like a Venetian chastity belt, if the receivers can’t get separation and aren’t catching you are 0-6 and that’s no first downs, little time off the clock, risk of INTs.

Interceptions are always blamed on the QB but the higher percentage of interceptions are tipped or contested throws and not clean picks.

You mention Drew marching down the field wearing defenses out making our running game better but Drew hasn’t done that in over a month and our best rushing games have been with him off the field.. When your QB can average over 4.5 YPC on 10 attempts per game, your run blocking is working.

As far as for pass first run second or only running when there isn’t an 8 man box that’s really a chicken or egg isn’t it? The fact that we are an anything first, anything second weakens our effectiveness as both actions open the other up. If you aren’t balanced then you are predictable and if you are predictable then defenses know what’s coming. In 2009 we were 53/47 split pass/run then for many seasons we were closer to 60% pass, 40% run= more predictable and less successful.

tl;dr version

If Drew Brees has a completion percentage below 45%, why in the hell are you passing? Please don’t blame practice squad receivers, if you are going to game plan on Monday and execute on Sunday with the same plan but different people then we are right back to losing games on the sidelines because there is no improvisation or adaptation.

You are a veteran so you understand me when I say, we aren’t adjusting to down range conditions which makes us less effective.

K Major · 12-24-2020, 08:57 AM

I know we are coming off a short week and a loss against the champs & playing on Christmas Day however ..

Division title is on the line. Take it personal from last years playoff loss & leave no doubt.

If Coach Sean Payton is ever gonna bring his A game vs Zimmer, tomorrow is it.

K Major · 12-24-2020, 09:44 AM

Saints / Vikes preview

Minnesota Vikings vs. New Orleans Saints \| NFL Week 16 Game Preview - YouTube

Rugby Saint II · 12-24-2020, 10:33 AM

They don't stop the run well and we have a potent passing game with one or two decent receivers on the field.

Revenge Game! Something tells me that even though it's a short week we'll be highly motivated to kick a$$.

WW_Who_Dat · 12-25-2020, 12:00 PM

Battle plan is great until the first shot is fired then “ Improvise Adapt and Overcome”

43% completion rate is an outlier ... some of that is on Brees trying to hit the deep routes early on but you have to acknowledge he had no favors from the receiving group. Maybe folks like Cooks got use the the plan called in the huddle and did pay attention to the adjustment Brees was making Pre snap.

Against KC the Saints could not run effectively till later in the game when they went to spread offense and the play action was more effective.

TheOak · 12-25-2020, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Battle plan is great until the first shot is fired then “ Improvise Adapt and Overcome”

43% completion rate is an outlier ... some of that is on Brees trying to hit the deep routes early on but you have to acknowledge he had no favors from the receiving group. Maybe folks like Cooks got use the the plan called in the huddle and did pay attention to the adjustment Brees was making Pre snap.

Against KC the Saints could not run effectively till later in the game when they went to spread offense and the play action was more effective.

Should not wait for the first shot to be fired to assess the battlefield. Ever.
We didn’t adapt or improvise, the completion rate isn’t an outlier it was the game with the first three possessions being 0% and an INT.

1st possession
5 yard rush
Incomplete pass
Incomplete pass
Punt

2nd possession
5 yard rush
Incomplete pass
Interception

3rd possession
4 yard rush
2 yard rush
Incomplete pass
Punt

4th possession
Incomplete pass
3 yard rush
-9 yard sack
Punt

5th possession
7 yard rush
1st complete pass for 6 yards
Incomplete pass
Incomplete pass
2nd complete pass for 51 yards.
2 yard rush
1 yard rushing TD

6th possession
11 yard rush
2 yard rush
Penalty
3 yard rush (Peat got hurt)
Incomplete pass
Punt penalty
Punt again

7th possession
21 yard pass to Kamara
8 yard pass to Cook
Incomplete pass
Incomplete pass
Fumble
Half

We literally did nothing effectively in the first half but run. I’m not sure what game you were watching but it isn’t the same game that I watched.

12-24-2020, 08:32 AM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara Originally Posted by K Major Vikings on tomorrow. I'll be curious to see what the game plan will be offensively w/ Sean P. The game plan and what plays are actually executed during the game can differ quite a bit. That's the point Coach Weis was trying to make. I have zero doubt the game plan is ALWAYS to run the ball as much as possible. But Payton's philosophy has ALWAYS been to take what the defense offers. It all comes down to execution whether the play is a run or a pass.

12-24-2020, 08:40 AM	#2
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,277 Blog Entries: 1	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working. We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box. Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws. With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws. But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert. AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and gosaints1 like this.

12-24-2020, 08:53 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working. We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box. Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws. With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws. But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert. Your eyes do not deceive you. You are seeing the same thing I am seeing.

12-25-2020, 07:05 AM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat It just might be that our run game is not happening because of our Offensive line’s performance this year. A lot of our effectiveness in the run game has come in 3rd and 4th qts after Brees has March the team down the field with multiple long play and time consuming drives wearing down the opposing defense. I just don’t get the run run run mantra when it’s not working it’s not working. We only see what we see on TV with no insight into what the coaches and player are dealing with in real time and the impact their input has on the play calling. When the offense is controlling the time of possession and can run the ball, they do. But I have alway felt we are a pass first run second team and the run game is only effective when the passing game is forcing the defense out of an 8 man box. Underhill talked about in his week podcast this week, he was at the game and talked about the velocity and distance Brees was throwing the ball ... ergo Sanders touchdown reception. But several of his throws to the the out routes were very strong throws. With regards to Kamara opposing team have game planned him out of the pass to the flat coming out of the backfield or the wheel routes. Screens where not possible with Taysom because of the one speed fits all throws, how many balls did we see ricocheting of receivers hands in these type throws. But at the end of the day like most I am just a fan, a fan who has been watching the team since September 17 1967. Missed some but not many, my parent would tape games and send them to me while I was in the military, 22 years worth. Later when working in Asia I would follow using the early version Of sling box often up at 1:00 AM watching live. Retired now I miss little of any print digital or game weather home in Louisiana or out west in the desert. I’m only a run, run, run guy when you are up against a team that allows the run but nearly leads the league in interceptions, and 0-6 passing and an INT later we are still trying to throw. You can focus on Drews arm if you wish but even if he is throwing like his arm was blessed by the baby Jesus himself, and our line is blocking like a Venetian chastity belt, if the receivers can’t get separation and aren’t catching you are 0-6 and that’s no first downs, little time off the clock, risk of INTs. Interceptions are always blamed on the QB but the higher percentage of interceptions are tipped or contested throws and not clean picks. You mention Drew marching down the field wearing defenses out making our running game better but Drew hasn’t done that in over a month and our best rushing games have been with him off the field.. When your QB can average over 4.5 YPC on 10 attempts per game, your run blocking is working. As far as for pass first run second or only running when there isn’t an 8 man box that’s really a chicken or egg isn’t it? The fact that we are an anything first, anything second weakens our effectiveness as both actions open the other up. If you aren’t balanced then you are predictable and if you are predictable then defenses know what’s coming. In 2009 we were 53/47 split pass/run then for many seasons we were closer to 60% pass, 40% run= more predictable and less successful. tl;dr version If Drew Brees has a completion percentage below 45%, why in the hell are you passing? Please don’t blame practice squad receivers, if you are going to game plan on Monday and execute on Sunday with the same plan but different people then we are right back to losing games on the sidelines because there is no improvisation or adaptation. You are a veteran so you understand me when I say, we aren’t adjusting to down range conditions which makes us less effective. gosaints1 likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

12-24-2020, 08:57 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,799 Blog Entries: 3	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara I know we are coming off a short week and a loss against the champs & playing on Christmas Day however .. Division title is on the line. Take it personal from last years playoff loss & leave no doubt. If Coach Sean Payton is ever gonna bring his A game vs Zimmer, tomorrow is it. Lord_Saint83 likes this.

12-24-2020, 10:33 AM	#7
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,133	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara They don't stop the run well and we have a potent passing game with one or two decent receivers on the field. Revenge Game! Something tells me that even though it's a short week we'll be highly motivated to kick a$$.

12-25-2020, 12:00 PM	#8
WW_Who_Dat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lafayette, La and Valencia CA Posts: 1,277 Blog Entries: 1	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara Battle plan is great until the first shot is fired then “ Improvise Adapt and Overcome” 43% completion rate is an outlier ... some of that is on Brees trying to hit the deep routes early on but you have to acknowledge he had no favors from the receiving group. Maybe folks like Cooks got use the the plan called in the huddle and did pay attention to the adjustment Brees was making Pre snap. Against KC the Saints could not run effectively till later in the game when they went to spread offense and the play action was more effective. AsylumGuido likes this.

12-25-2020, 03:02 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: KC Plan Against Kamara Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat Battle plan is great until the first shot is fired then “ Improvise Adapt and Overcome” 43% completion rate is an outlier ... some of that is on Brees trying to hit the deep routes early on but you have to acknowledge he had no favors from the receiving group. Maybe folks like Cooks got use the the plan called in the huddle and did pay attention to the adjustment Brees was making Pre snap. Against KC the Saints could not run effectively till later in the game when they went to spread offense and the play action was more effective. Should not wait for the first shot to be fired to assess the battlefield. Ever. We didn’t adapt or improvise, the completion rate isn’t an outlier it was the game with the first three possessions being 0% and an INT. 1st possession 5 yard rush Incomplete pass Incomplete pass Punt 2nd possession 5 yard rush Incomplete pass Interception 3rd possession 4 yard rush 2 yard rush Incomplete pass Punt 4th possession Incomplete pass 3 yard rush -9 yard sack Punt 5th possession 7 yard rush 1st complete pass for 6 yards Incomplete pass Incomplete pass 2nd complete pass for 51 yards. 2 yard rush 1 yard rushing TD 6th possession 11 yard rush 2 yard rush Penalty 3 yard rush (Peat got hurt) Incomplete pass Punt penalty Punt again 7th possession 21 yard pass to Kamara 8 yard pass to Cook Incomplete pass Incomplete pass Fumble Half We literally did nothing effectively in the first half but run. I’m not sure what game you were watching but it isn’t the same game that I watched.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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