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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Whodi.... I don't see why you aren't at least a little concerned about Leinart's possible future in N.O. I think people somewhat doubt his physical abilities, but mostly people doubt how he will adapt to life on our team. He'll ...

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Old 01-09-2006, 01:58 PM   #41
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Whodi....

I don't see why you aren't at least a little concerned about Leinart's possible future in N.O. I think people somewhat doubt his physical abilities, but mostly people doubt how he will adapt to life on our team. He'll be going quite literally from riches to rags(regardless of the contract he will get). I know he said he will go wherever he is drafted but that doesn't alleviate any of my concerns in the least. What is he supposed to say at this point? I think he doesn't want to come off as a complete jerk by saying "I would rather not go here, but i will go wherever i'm drafted". There is no precedent for this situation, being that no team's home city has been ravaged by a hurricane to this degree, plus the lack of stability in the franchise overall. I think it would be a little naive to think that everything will be hunky dory. Honestly if i was in his situation I would hold out and force a trade. Coming from where he's coming from, would u want to buy a house and live in N.O.?? Come on now.

Besides addressing another critical need, i don't think that the dropoff in lifestyle is as significant to a player like A.J. Hawk. And all of this stuff definitely matters to these guys. It's not all about the football to them.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:16 PM   #42
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I just don't see it. The guy will be playing football, and will be a millionaire 40 times over. I am sure the league will also throw in some concessions to players who come here as FAs, or are drafted here. He doesn't have to live in New Olreans, most of the players don't. During the season all he has to worry about is football, after that, he can do whatever the hell he wants. Go back to LA in the offseason if he so chooses. Hell, all the Univ of Miami players hang out in Miami after the season. And like I said, if he does, AT THAT POINT, we trade him for a pirate's booty of picks and or players. This really is not a concern to me at all. Also, for the guy to say he would play wherever he is drafted, and still have people question him, just shows a bias to me. Until he says something different, I am gonna operate under the knowledge he will stand by that. When/if he changes his mind, then other choices will need to be made. Until then, I am not gonna pretend I know the man better than he knows himself.
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:32 PM   #43
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I'm not gonna disagree on the fact we need impact defensive players, I am just not willing to pass up on Leinart for them, especially since this draft is so deep with defense.
Perhaps the truest thing I have heard in awhile. Thank you Whodi for your unbiased opinion.

I think people somewhat doubt his physical abilities, but mostly people doubt how he will adapt to life on our team.
I don't understand why people doubt either one. His physical skills are pretty damn good. He's 6'4". Great poise. Here's Scouts, Inc. scouting report on Leinart:
Strengths: Is a proven winner and one of the most effective quarterbacks to ever play the collegiate game. A pressure performer. Has a terrific command of his offense. A natural born leader with terrific all-around intangibles. Is calm and poised. Steps up in key situations and isn't afraid to have the ball in his hands when it counts the most. He has very good size. Is tall with decent build, long arms and big hands. He has an excellent feel for reading defenses. Shows rare touch and accuracy as a passer. Can fit the ball in between coverage and knows how to lead his receivers. He throws a tight spiral. Has excellent feel for timing routes and anticipates his receivers' breaks well. Has enough quickness and fluidity to buy extra time from within the pocket. He sets up quicker than his speed would indicate. He also does a very good job of reading defenses in his drop. He has good body control, balance and COD skills. He has a high release point, has no trouble seeing over his offensive line and rarely has a pass batted down. Has a very good work ethic.

Weaknesses: Durability is becoming an increasing concern. Had a rotator cuff injury that forced him to miss his sophomore season in high school, tendonitis that bothered him in 2004 and required off-season surgery that shelved him in the spring of 2005. Lacks great mobility and speed. Not a threat to take off and run. Has good pocket awareness but lacks the quick feet and agility to consistently buy second chances as a passer. He winds up a little bit too much as a passer. Doe not have ideal quickness in terms of his release. He has adequate-to-good arm strength, but lacks elite NFL arm.

Overall: Leinart, who replaced Heisman Trophy winner Carson Palmer as the Trojans' starting quarterback in 2003, has been a fulltime starter since his sophomore season, when he finished 255 of 404 (63.4-percent) with 3,556 yards, 38 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Leinart started for his second season at quarterback as a junior in 2004, when he completed 269-of-412 passes (65.3%) for 3,322 yards and 33 TDs with just 6 interceptions, plus he rushed for 3 TDs. He won the Heisman Trophy in 2004. In two seasons as a fulltime starter prior to his senior season in 2005, Leinart is 25-1 in games that he has started and he led his team to back-to-back national championships. Leinart is a southpaw quarterback with great size, leadership skills and intangibles. Even prior to his senior season in 2005, Leinart was already as one of the most decorated quarterbacks in the history of college football. As a potential top-five draft pick, Leinart's lack of speed is a bit concerning, as are his minor durability issues and lack of elite arm strength. He also has been surrounded by the best supporting cast in college football during his three seasons as a starter. However, Leinart still has enough physical tools and all the intangibles an NFL team could want in its starting quarterback. He is quick enough in the pocket to buy second-chance passing opportunities, he has played through pain and he has better arm strength than several above average starters in the NFL right now. Very much like the Patriots' Tom Brady, Leinart simply knows how to win. He possesses rare intangibles and leadership skills, as well as accuracy as a passer. That is why, despite his lack of elite all-around physical tools, Leinart is the clear-cut top-rated quarterback in the 2006 class.
OK so he has some MINOR injury issues, he's not Michael Vick, and he doesn't have ELITE arm strength. But this guy is still rated a 98 (the same as Reggie Bush). That's pretty freakin good. Give this guy the credit he deserves instead of holding biased grudges for no reason. This guy is a total stud. SUPER ACCURATE. Good arm-strength. GREAT ON-FIELD INTELLIGENCE. How can we not want this guy?
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Old 01-09-2006, 03:53 PM   #44
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It really isn't about not wanting him. It's about not wanting him at #2 overall.

Danny Wuerffel
Completed his career in 1996 as arguably the most efficient and productive QB in major college history. The 1996 Heisman Trophy recipient and two-time recipient of the O'Brien National Quarterback of the Year Award (1995-96), completed his career throwing for 10,875 yards (fifth best in college history) with 114 TD passes (second best in collegiate history and 40 more than any other QB in SEC history at that point). His career pass efficiency rating of 163.56 was best in collegiate history and his 178.4 rating in 1995 was the best single-season mark in collegiate history. He became the first QB in collegiate history to post a pass efficiency rating of at least 170 in back-to-back seasons (1995-96). His percentage of passes which went for a TD (9.74%) was the best in collegiate history. He led the nation in TD passes in both 1995 (35) and 1996 (39) and in the process he became one of only two QBs in collegiate history to throw for 35 or more TDs in back-to-back seasons.
http://www.gatorzone.com/insidefootb...page=greats#qb

Leinart--CAREER: He is fourth on USC's career completions (524), passing yardage (6,878) and total offense (6,772) charts. He already has thrown 71 touchdowns (second most in USC history behind Carson Palmer's 72) in just 26 career starts, with at least 1 TD in all but 1 game he has started (the first 24) and at least 2 TDs in all but 3 games (he had a string of at least 2 TDs in 15 consecutive games). He also has thrown at least 3 TDs 13 times (and at least 4 TDs 7 times, including 5 TDs on 3 occasions). He is averaging a TD pass every 11.5 career attempts. His career passing efficiency rating of 160.5 is fifth on the all-time NCAA chart. During USC's current 22-game winning streak, he has thrown 63 TDs and just 9 interceptions (his career TD/interception ratio is 71/15). His 71 career TD passes-already sixth on the Pac-10 career ladder-are the most ever in back-to-back seasons by a Pac-10 quarterback. His 64.3% career passing percentage is just below USC's career record of 64.6% set by Rob Johnson (1991-94). His 1.84% career interception rate is lower than the USC and Pac-10 career record of 1.95% set by Brad Otton (1994-96). USC is 25-1 when Leinart starts (his 96.2% winning percentage is the highest of any USC quarterback ever and is the second-best mark in NCAA history, minimum 25 starts, behind Toledo's Chuck Ealey, who was 35-0).
http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/...rt_matt00.html

Comparing Leinart to Peyton doesn't seem to fit since Peyton does have elite arm strength and is the model of the dropback passer.

Comparing Leinart to Brady is certainly complimentary, but if you had suggested that the Redskins take Tom Brady at #2 in the 2000 draft, they'd have laughed you out of town. Every team in the league passed on him at least 6 times. New England took him at pick #33 in the 6th round. I'm also pretty sure that Mel Kiper didn't grade Brady out higher than anyone else ever drafted either.

But when you get right down to it, what makes Leinart a better choice than Wuerffel? They've both won at every level of competition they've ever been involved in. They're numbers are similar, but if you're honest, Wuerffel is the better candidate. Winning the SEC 4 straight times is a pretty impressive feat.

My problem with Leinart is that he is either going to be good or going to be a total bust. I'd rather trade down and take the best defensive player in this class and pick up a quality QB in round 2 or even manage a later round 1. I'd have no problems at all with Leinart at #16 or later, it's just #2 that I think we're asking for trouble with.

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Old 01-09-2006, 03:57 PM   #45
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And in case anybody's wondering how Vince Young's scouting report looks:

Strengths: Possesses ideal size. Is tall, well-built and strong. A terrific athlete. Has reportedly been timed in the 4.4's in the 40-yard dash. Displays outstanding mobility and is a huge threat as a runner. Shows very good initial quickness and the ability to consistently avoid the rush. He has elusiveness and an impressive second-gear in the open field. A true dual-threat QB. Has improved his accuracy when throwing on the run. Extremely dangerous when he breaks contain. Makes a lot of things happen after the initial play breaks down. Is improving as a passer. Possesses adequate arm strength and can make most of the throws necessary in the NFL. His touch and timing continue to improve as a passer.

Weaknesses: Shows decent but not good arm strength. His mechanics need a lot of improving. Shows a low release point and, for the most part, shot-puts the ball as a passer. A better runner than passer at this point. Does not show a good comprehension of reading defenses and making progression reads. Is extremely raw as pocket passer and will need a lot of developmental tutelage in that area in the NFL. Still lacks ideal decision-making skills. Tries to force things when they are not available. Must learn to better protect the football. Takes too many chances when protection is breaking down and throws too many passes up for grabs. Is impatient in the pocket. Frequently takes off too early and does not allow his receivers enough time to separate.

Overall: Young redshirted in 2002 and started seven of the 12 games he played in 2003. As a sophomore in 2004, Young completed 59.2-percent of his attempts (250) for 1,849 yards with 12 TD's and 11 INT's. He also rushed for 1079 yards and 14 TD's on 167 carries. Young is a junior in 2005 and has not indicated what his intentions are regarding his NFL future. Prior to the significant improvements he made as a passer between his sophomore and junior seasons; it was nearly a foregone conclusion that Young would need to make a position change in order to make a living in the NFL. Young still has lots of room to improve in terms of his mechanics, release point, accuracy and ability to read coverages. However, he has made huge strides in terms of his arm strength, accuracy and vertical passing abilities. Because he is such an elite athlete, we feel safe at this early point grading him out as a potential first round prospect. If he doesn't work out as a quarterback, Young can still make a significant contribution in a versatile wide receiver/return specialist-type role in the NFL.
He graded at a 93.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:02 PM   #46
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My problem with Leinart is that he is either going to be good or going to be a total bust. I'd rather trade down and take the best defensive player in this class and pick up a quality QB in round 2 or even manage a later round 1.
OK so you'd trade the 2nd best offensive player for the best defensive player because you're afraid Leinart could be a bust? What stops AJ Hawk from being a bust? NOthing, and you know it. He has more injury concerns that Leinart. Also, adding a "quality" QB isn't the same as adding a stud QB. Like I said earlier, just having a bunch of mediocre QBs doesn't mean the quarterback position will be good. It means they'll be mediocre. Look at the COlts. THey have Peyton and then.... Jim Sorgi. You don't need an Omar Jacobs, AMAC and a washed up veteran, you need a franchise QB, which is exactly what Leinart is.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:04 PM   #47
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with all these LBs declaring... i actually think we need to trade down and try to acquire another high 2nd round pick and pick 2 LBs with both of them
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:07 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by TheDeuce
My problem with Leinart is that he is either going to be good or going to be a total bust. I'd rather trade down and take the best defensive player in this class and pick up a quality QB in round 2 or even manage a later round 1.
OK so you'd trade the 2nd best offensive player for the best defensive player because you're afraid Leinart could be a bust? What stops AJ Hawk from being a bust? NOthing, and you know it. He has more injury concerns that Leinart. Also, adding a "quality" QB isn't the same as adding a stud QB. Like I said earlier, just having a bunch of mediocre QBs doesn't mean the quarterback position will be good. It means they'll be mediocre. Look at the COlts. THey have Peyton and then.... Jim Sorgi. You don't need an Omar Jacobs, AMAC and a washed up veteran, you need a franchise QB, which is exactly what Leinart is.
My own humble opinion is that Cutler will end up being the better pro.

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Old 01-09-2006, 04:11 PM   #49
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Is that the only road left to take to discredit Leinart, compare him to busts? I am gonna make this real simple and easy: Weurffel was not called the best college QB of all time, by anyone. Ever, at any point. No comparison. But since that's the way the game has turned, let's look at some first round defensive players to see how they shake out. Hell, i'll just stick to the ones taking one overall:

Aundray Bruce
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search
Aundray Bruce (born on April 30, 1966) was an outside linebacker at Auburn University.

[edit]
Biography
Bruce was born in Montgomery, Alabama. He graduated from Auburn in 1988 as an education major.

[edit]
College career
Bruce was named All-Southeastern Conference in 1986 and 1987, All-American in 1987, and Citrus Bowl MVP in 1987.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aundray_Bruce

Steve Emtman

Honors:

Lombardi Award - 1991
Outland Trophy - 1991
Heisman Trophy - 4th in 1991
Washington Hall of Fame - 1999
1st Team All-Pac 10 - 1990, 1991
Pac 10 Lineman of the Year - 1990, 1991
Consensus All-America - 1991
All-America - 1990
http://www.collegefootballnews.com/T...e%20Emtman.htm

I could go to Dan Wilkinson, and Courtney Brown and play this game all day. That's silly IMO. There is no other college QB to compare Leinart too, but if we are gonan compare him too busts, here are a few bust defensive players who won all the honors in college as well.
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Old 01-09-2006, 04:24 PM   #50
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Also forgot that Weurffel played in a pass happy fun n gun offense that rarely used the run under Spurrier, while Leinart played in a balanced pro style system at USC. Anyone think a guy playing ain a pro style offens ewill have an easier time adjusting to the NFL than a guy who threw 80% of the time out of the shotgun? Wait, that sounds familiar too.
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