Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says

WillSaints81 · 02-03-2013, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Usually Brandt is pretty spot-on, but I can't agree here. I like Julio - as a Bama fan, not a Failcons one - but he wasn't even the most productive WR on his own TEAM this season.

And frankly, Natty Arse is a slightly-better QB than Matt Stafford.

Johnson produces more with less around him - no quality #2 WR, no consistent running game, shaky O-line - so I gotta give him the edge. No doubt Julio is up-and-coming fast, though.

I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well.

SloMotion · 02-04-2013, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well.

All valid points, and god knows I've been defending the Lions for 40+yrs, but the fact remains they always find a way snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and I'm tired of sticking up for them. Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!).

It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do.

mutineer10 · 02-04-2013, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!).

It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do.

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

burningmetal · 02-04-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

Just thoroughly wash out those Ratty Mice thoughts with some battery acid. I can't promise that you'll survive, but at least it'll burn the negative memories from your mind.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-04-2013, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation.
Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up)
Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up)
How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2

Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year?

I rest my case.

Oh, and I doing this for your own good

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency.

The tale of the tape (2012 Season):

QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1
Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6%
Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719
TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2

It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close.

Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan,

. You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better?

Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ...

Tale of the Tape/2011

QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2
Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3%
Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177
TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12
Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 **yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective.

Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5
Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 **I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient

So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

SloMotion · 02-04-2013, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by mutineer10

Usually Brandt is pretty spot-on, but I can't agree here. I like Julio - as a Bama fan, not a Failcons one - but he wasn't even the most productive WR on his own TEAM this season.

And frankly, Natty Arse is a slightly-better QB than Matt Stafford.

Johnson produces more with less around him - no quality #2 WR, no consistent running game, shaky O-line - so I gotta give him the edge. No doubt Julio is up-and-coming fast, though.

The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad.

.

Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones.

I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well,

.

Budsdrinker · 02-05-2013, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. .

Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones.

I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, .

Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success.

SloMotion · 02-06-2013, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success.

, Stafford's had a rough start to his career, injury-wise & having to play for Detroit, but I think he's 'potential unrealized' at this point. We saw what he did in 2011 with a solid receiving corps.

People were really getting on him for the sidearm throws, but you're right, it's part of the kid's style and honestly, he was throwing under duress quite a bit this season, which is where I think the sidearm came from.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-03-2013, 11:34 AM

There used to be a time when the editor of a newspaper would read what their one sportswriter with an opinion wrote, and make a decision as to whether the piece had any merit. Today, that has been replaced by the number of unique web hits.

02-04-2013, 07:25 AM	#3
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!). It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do. Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself.

02-04-2013, 08:12 AM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. Just thoroughly wash out those Ratty Mice thoughts with some battery acid. I can't promise that you'll survive, but at least it'll burn the negative memories from your mind.

02-04-2013, 04:09 PM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. So, let's say, for the sake of argument, we take Julio and Calvin out of the equation. Who is the Lions' #2 WR? (without looking i up) Who is the Lions' #1 TE? (without looking it up) How good is the Lions' O-line at keeping Stafford upright in comparison to Matty Melt and his O-line? BTW, I am no math genius, but I believe 6/4 = 3/2 Did Stafford get to play against the Saints D twice last year? I rest my case. Oh, and I doing this for your own good mutineer10 and SloMotion like this.

02-06-2013, 06:41 AM	#6
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Yeah, I gave myself some of that Brandt "wiggle room" with the "slightly better." Like you I'd call both Stafford and Ryan second-tier, there's no arguing they're quality starters. I mainly give Ryan an edge for durability (although Stafford did finally play in all 16 games this season) and consistency. The tale of the tape (2012 Season): QB Rating: Stafford 79.8, Ryan 99.1 Comp. %: Stafford 59.8%, Ryan 68.6% Total Yds: Stafford 4,967, Ryan 4,719 TD / INT: Stafford 20 / 17, Ryan 32 / 14 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 6 / 4, Ryan 3 / 2 It's clear to me which QB I'd take in the debate. If you believe the stats don't lie - I personally believe they often do - it's not really close. Now that I've defended Natty Arse, I'll end this threadjacking and go hang myself. Ok, I'm gonna' help a brother out because there's now way I can let you go about your day feeling like you just made an argument for Matt Ryan, . You see, stats are subjective and really only exist to support our own individual viewpoints, so one should never have to feel fully obligated to choosing Matt Ryan over a comparable QB. Feel better? Let's go back a season, to that magical/mythical season that comes around for the Lions every decade or so ... Tale of the Tape/2011 QB Rating: Stafford 97.2, Ryan 92.2 Comp. %: Stafford 63.5%, Ryan 61.3% Total Yds: Stafford 5038, Ryan 4,177 TD / INT: Stafford 41 / 16, Ryan 29 / 12 Fumb / Lost: Stafford 5 / 4, Ryan 5 / 3 *yes, I know, but remember, stats are subjective. Playoff record: Stafford 0-1, Ryan 1-5 Career Tackles: Stafford - 1, Ryan - 1 *I was looking for the 'tough guy' quotient So, I guess you could argue when Stafford has the weapons and/or is healthy, he's your man over Ryan. At least I could. It's all hypothetical, of course, in the court of NFL QB's where you're ultimately judged on playoff wins & SuperBowls, of which there's only one between the two of them.

02-04-2013, 06:26 AM	#7
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Usually Brandt is pretty spot-on, but I can't agree here. I like Julio - as a Bama fan, not a Failcons one - but he wasn't even the most productive WR on his own TEAM this season. And frankly, Natty Arse is a slightly-better QB than Matt Stafford. Johnson produces more with less around him - no quality #2 WR, no consistent running game, shaky O-line - so I gotta give him the edge. No doubt Julio is up-and-coming fast, though. The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. . Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones. I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, .

02-03-2013, 11:54 PM	#1
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,276	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by mutineer10 Usually Brandt is pretty spot-on, but I can't agree here. I like Julio - as a Bama fan, not a Failcons one - but he wasn't even the most productive WR on his own TEAM this season. And frankly, Natty Arse is a slightly-better QB than Matt Stafford. Johnson produces more with less around him - no quality #2 WR, no consistent running game, shaky O-line - so I gotta give him the edge. No doubt Julio is up-and-coming fast, though. I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well.

02-04-2013, 06:17 AM	#2
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by WillSaints81 I have to disagree there. Any qb that throws for 5,000 yards in a season is elite or soon to be. The lions lost eight games by seven points or less and five of them they were in position to win at the end. As for JJ being better, no way. If that were the case why does he not show up in some games. And if Ryan was better than Stafford then would that falcons offense be putting up the points the lions do in their games? the lions do score points, its their defense that hasnt done well. All valid points, and god knows I've been defending the Lions for 40+yrs, but the fact remains they always find a way snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and I'm tired of sticking up for them. Stafford vs Ryan is a great debate. I put 'em both in that second tier but I think when Mut10 says Ryan is 'slightly better', he may have a point (blech! puke! choke!, can't believe I'm saying that!). Stafford arguably does more with less, but is always fighting off some sort of injury and has yet to notch a playoff win, so I give a slight edge to Ryan (blech! puke! choke!). It's one of them deals where you'd like to see them switch places and see how they do. mutineer10 likes this.

02-05-2013, 08:59 AM	#8
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by SloMotion The Lions O/line is actually one of the better lines in the pass-blocking department, run-blocking not so much. I say this not to up Stafford in the Stafford/Ryan debate, but in defense of the much maligned Lions offensive line, which really isn't that bad. . Now that I've gotten over the initial shock of the title to the thread, I did notice Brandt said, "they're both pretty good" and "I like Julio a little better then Johnson", so there's some wiggle room there & not a total declaration for Jones. I kept waiting for Randy Moss to be interfected into the conversation as well, . Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success. SloMotion likes this.

02-06-2013, 07:12 AM	#9
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says Originally Posted by Budsdrinker Nah SloMo, you have the better QB in Stafford with all his throwing styles. That sidearm almost underhand flick is incredible. Get a solid #2 WR and your Lions are set. Ryan has 2 good wideouts plus the best TE in the game is what makes him impressive. If Gonzales goes this year so will Ryan's success. , Stafford's had a rough start to his career, injury-wise & having to play for Detroit, but I think he's 'potential unrealized' at this point. We saw what he did in 2011 with a solid receiving corps. People were really getting on him for the sidearm throws, but you're right, it's part of the kid's style and honestly, he was throwing under duress quite a bit this season, which is where I think the sidearm came from.

02-03-2013, 11:34 AM	#10
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Julio Jones better than Calvin Johnson, Gil Brandt says There used to be a time when the editor of a newspaper would read what their one sportswriter with an opinion wrote, and make a decision as to whether the piece had any merit. Today, that has been replaced by the number of unique web hits. mutineer10 and SloMotion like this.