ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL...

AsylumGuido · 02-16-2021, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation.

Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel.

Exactly! It would be awesome if we played perfect in every playoff game. It would be awesome if we never suffered an injury and never turned the ball over. It would be awesome if we never missed a tackle or a block. But those things happen in virtually every game. You can pick out a play or two or three that could have made a difference by either team in every playoff game. We have been fortunate to have had the breaks go our way once throughout a post season. There are franchises that still to this date haven't had the same. All we can do is keep getting to the playoffs and hope those breaks go our way again.

saintsfan1976 · 02-16-2021, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits.

The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all.

2010 Seattle blindsided us

2011 We spanked the Lions then SF speared Pierre, no flag, we couldn't cover the tight end and basically last team with the ball won.

2013 beat a good eagles team ON THE ROAD then lost by one score to the very good seahawks ON THE ROAD

2017. Last play fluke of historic proportion to an epic defense ON THE ROAD

2018. Rams. yes, the no call but we didn't finish them off

2019. you have an argument here. sloppy but we were missing key starters. credit minnesota's game plan

2020. we handle the bears like we should. Tampa comes in healthy, we're not. We make all the mistakes possible and give the game away from the beginning. Credit tampa's game plan.

So i don't think the saints are "different" in the playoffs. They've won and lost close games.

Rugby Saint II · 02-16-2021, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation.

Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel.

Good points. The ball did bounce our way a lot in 2009. But, I still believe that You have to be in the right place for good things to happen.

dizzle88 · 02-16-2021, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

2010 Seattle blindsided us

2011 We spanked the Lions then SF speared Pierre, no flag, we couldn't cover the tight end and basically last team with the ball won.

2013 beat a good eagles team ON THE ROAD then lost by one score to the very good seahawks ON THE ROAD

2017. Last play fluke of historic proportion to an epic defense ON THE ROAD

2018. Rams. yes, the no call but we didn't finish them off

2019. you have an argument here. sloppy but we were missing key starters. credit minnesota's game plan

2020. we handle the bears like we should. Tampa comes in healthy, we're not. We make all the mistakes possible and give the game away from the beginning. Credit tampa's game plan.

So i don't think the saints are "different" in the playoffs. They've won and lost close games.

I think they are extremely different in the playoffs.

We have consistently been a low turnover offense, yet the playoffs come and they turn it over 4 times.

We consistently score redzone TD's in the regular season, yet settle for FG's in the playoffs and let teams hang around.

I see what you are saying, but all I really see are excuses for a team that has never lived up to its potential.

Good teams tackle Diggs in bounds.
Good teams score TD's and don't let the refs miss a call that decides the game.
And good teams do not only barely win against the Eagles in 2018 and Bears in 2020.

Our last 3 exits have all been at home, which dumbfounds me.

AsylumGuido · 02-16-2021, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I think they are extremely different in the playoffs.

We have consistently been a low turnover offense, yet the playoffs come and they turn it over 4 times.

We consistently score redzone TD's in the regular season, yet settle for FG's in the playoffs and let teams hang around.

I see what you are saying, but all I really see are excuses for a team that has never lived up to its potential.

Good teams tackle Diggs in bounds.
Good teams score TD's and don't let the refs miss a call that decides the game.
And good teams do not only barely win against the Eagles in 2018 and Bears in 2020.

Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well.

dizzle88 · 02-16-2021, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well.

As I said earlier, in the regular season yes, in the playoffs absolutely not.

AsylumGuido · 02-16-2021, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

As I said earlier, in the regular season yes, in the playoffs absolutely not.

Every team in the playoffs are "good teams". Some happen to be "gooder" on any given day, however.

dizzle88 · 02-16-2021, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Every team in the playoffs are "good teams". Some happen to be "gooder" on any given day, however.

Yes and No.

The Bears and the Redskins were not good teams, they were merely lucky to get there. The Bears were one dropped TD from leading at the half against us. Which at home especially, was pretty embarrassing on our part.

The 2010 Seahawks that beat us were definitely not a good team. I believe that also made us the only team in the playoffs to ever lose to an opponent with a losing record.

That stat that was mentioned recently tells the full story I believe. We are the only team in the Superbowl Era to win 49 games in 4 years and not appear in a Superbowl.

gosaints1 · 02-16-2021, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well.

As Bill Parcells once wisely quipped:

“You are what your record says you are”.

CSP and Drew Brees, as a combo, are 9-8 overall in the playoffs. Very simply, just a tad over .500. AG, I’m still not buying the “luck” excuse, lol. Luck obviously comes into play for ALL teams, therefore it’s an equal unknown, as the ball bounces oddly for everybody. I would argue the missed call wasn’t “bad luck”, it was incompetence. Other than that, the Diggs missed tackle, among others aren’t “bad luck” either. Failing to fall on a ball in the end zone for a safety instead of a TD isn’t bad luck either. I can continue on for hours, but I won’t.

But, that’s just how I see things.

stickman · 02-16-2021, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Good points. The ball did bounce our way a lot in 2009. But, I still believe that You have to be in the right place for good things to happen.

I remember Howie Long saying almost exactly this before the NFC Championship against the Vikings. He said the Vikings were a better team but, when its your year, its your year and the ball bounces your way.

And he was right. I have long believed the Vikings don't turn the ball over 5 times in that game the Saints lose by double digits.

02-16-2021, 04:39 PM	#31
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by Boston Saint I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation. Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel. Exactly! It would be awesome if we played perfect in every playoff game. It would be awesome if we never suffered an injury and never turned the ball over. It would be awesome if we never missed a tackle or a block. But those things happen in virtually every game. You can pick out a play or two or three that could have made a difference by either team in every playoff game. We have been fortunate to have had the breaks go our way once throughout a post season. There are franchises that still to this date haven't had the same. All we can do is keep getting to the playoffs and hope those breaks go our way again. Boston Saint likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-16-2021, 04:46 PM	#32
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,846 Blog Entries: 3	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by dizzle88 I agree on the injury and reffing front in terms of in the playoffs and vs KC. However, regardless of our Injury Status, I've seen this team come out flat in 4 straight playoff exits. The playoff saints are a different team. Everything we do well during the regular season, inexplicably becomes a weakness in the playoffs and they look like they don't want to be there. No fire at all. 2010 Seattle blindsided us 2011 We spanked the Lions then SF speared Pierre, no flag, we couldn't cover the tight end and basically last team with the ball won. 2013 beat a good eagles team ON THE ROAD then lost by one score to the very good seahawks ON THE ROAD 2017. Last play fluke of historic proportion to an epic defense ON THE ROAD 2018. Rams. yes, the no call but we didn't finish them off 2019. you have an argument here. sloppy but we were missing key starters. credit minnesota's game plan 2020. we handle the bears like we should. Tampa comes in healthy, we're not. We make all the mistakes possible and give the game away from the beginning. Credit tampa's game plan. So i don't think the saints are "different" in the playoffs. They've won and lost close games. neugey and Boston Saint like this.

02-16-2021, 06:24 PM	#33
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by Boston Saint I get it and understand/and agree with what his meaning is. But saying you make your own luck implies that everything on the field is within your control. That simply is not true and there is an element of injuries or bad calls or weather conditions that fall into this category of “luck” that can’t be controlled. Sure the effort put forth by the players and coaches is the most important thing. But IMO it’s unrealistic (almost arrogant) to think that when going up against another, quality playoff team like Tampa this year or the Rams a few years ago that you can be and perform that much better than the other team that you can take getting screwed by the refs or having an in game injury out of the equation. Another case in point was the playoff game at the Niners back in 2011 where Pierre Thomas took a head hit, fumbled and Niners got ball deep and scored in first quarter. Thomas is out for game, saints down 7-0 in a game we end up losing by less than a score on a last minute drive. Now, I call it bad luck that Thomas took a borderline dirty hit and left the game. I think this really hurt the Saints in the game. Could they have still won if say, Shanle does anything to stop Vernon Davis...sure they could (and should have). But that doesn’t change the bad luck of having Thomas knocked out just like it was bad luck Harris got knocked out against Tampa just like it was bad luck the refs didn’t call against the Rams. There was nothing the Saints did or didn’t do to make the luck that happened on those plays. But that’s just how I feel. Good points. The ball did bounce our way a lot in 2009. But, I still believe that You have to be in the right place for good things to happen. Boston Saint likes this.

02-16-2021, 06:42 PM	#34
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,358	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 2010 Seattle blindsided us 2011 We spanked the Lions then SF speared Pierre, no flag, we couldn't cover the tight end and basically last team with the ball won. 2013 beat a good eagles team ON THE ROAD then lost by one score to the very good seahawks ON THE ROAD 2017. Last play fluke of historic proportion to an epic defense ON THE ROAD 2018. Rams. yes, the no call but we didn't finish them off 2019. you have an argument here. sloppy but we were missing key starters. credit minnesota's game plan 2020. we handle the bears like we should. Tampa comes in healthy, we're not. We make all the mistakes possible and give the game away from the beginning. Credit tampa's game plan. So i don't think the saints are "different" in the playoffs. They've won and lost close games. I think they are extremely different in the playoffs. We have consistently been a low turnover offense, yet the playoffs come and they turn it over 4 times. We consistently score redzone TD's in the regular season, yet settle for FG's in the playoffs and let teams hang around. I see what you are saying, but all I really see are excuses for a team that has never lived up to its potential. Good teams tackle Diggs in bounds. Good teams score TD's and don't let the refs miss a call that decides the game. And good teams do not only barely win against the Eagles in 2018 and Bears in 2020. Our last 3 exits have all been at home, which dumbfounds me. jeanpierre, gosaints1 and K Major like this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

02-16-2021, 06:44 PM	#35
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by dizzle88 I think they are extremely different in the playoffs. We have consistently been a low turnover offense, yet the playoffs come and they turn it over 4 times. We consistently score redzone TD's in the regular season, yet settle for FG's in the playoffs and let teams hang around. I see what you are saying, but all I really see are excuses for a team that has never lived up to its potential. Good teams tackle Diggs in bounds. Good teams score TD's and don't let the refs miss a call that decides the game. And good teams do not only barely win against the Eagles in 2018 and Bears in 2020. Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well.

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02-16-2021, 06:45 PM	#36
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,358	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well. As I said earlier, in the regular season yes, in the playoffs absolutely not.

02-16-2021, 06:46 PM	#37
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by dizzle88 As I said earlier, in the regular season yes, in the playoffs absolutely not. Every team in the playoffs are "good teams". Some happen to be "gooder" on any given day, however.

02-16-2021, 07:19 PM	#38
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,358	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Every team in the playoffs are "good teams". Some happen to be "gooder" on any given day, however. Yes and No. The Bears and the Redskins were not good teams, they were merely lucky to get there. The Bears were one dropped TD from leading at the half against us. Which at home especially, was pretty embarrassing on our part. The 2010 Seahawks that beat us were definitely not a good team. I believe that also made us the only team in the playoffs to ever lose to an opponent with a losing record. That stat that was mentioned recently tells the full story I believe. We are the only team in the Superbowl Era to win 49 games in 4 years and not appear in a Superbowl. jeanpierre likes this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

02-16-2021, 07:49 PM	#39
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Guess we're not a good team. Oh, well. As Bill Parcells once wisely quipped: “You are what your record says you are”. CSP and Drew Brees, as a combo, are 9-8 overall in the playoffs. Very simply, just a tad over .500. AG, I’m still not buying the “luck” excuse, lol. Luck obviously comes into play for ALL teams, therefore it’s an equal unknown, as the ball bounces oddly for everybody. I would argue the missed call wasn’t “bad luck”, it was incompetence. Other than that, the Diggs missed tackle, among others aren’t “bad luck” either. Failing to fall on a ball in the end zone for a safety instead of a TD isn’t bad luck either. I can continue on for hours, but I won’t. But, that’s just how I see things. Rugby Saint II, dizzle88 and K Major like this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

02-16-2021, 07:53 PM	#40
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,687	Re: ARE WE SEEING THE NEW NFL... Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Good points. The ball did bounce our way a lot in 2009. But, I still believe that You have to be in the right place for good things to happen. I remember Howie Long saying almost exactly this before the NFC Championship against the Vikings. He said the Vikings were a better team but, when its your year, its your year and the ball bounces your way. And he was right. I have long believed the Vikings don't turn the ball over 5 times in that game the Saints lose by double digits. saintsfan1976 likes this.