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Re: Voluntary Workouts

It’s also fair to point out that we are talking about guys that are 20-21 when they come into the league. A lot of physical and mental development happens still until 25 or so. Not surprising that first round draft picks get beat out by later picks sometime as that development occurs.

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 918675)

Exactly!

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 918675)

Is it a well-run team? a well-coached team? teammate chemistry? team scheme?

Yes, all of it is a factor. But when a team invests in a first round pick, that player should still be expected to start right away...

An All-Pro Rookie? Maybe a RB, K, or P has the best shot at it. But they should be able to start, contribute right away...

Day 2 picks should be starters by their second year; they may not be ProBowlers, but they should be competent starters...

Your Day 3 picks are depth or players with obvious talent, but with red flags, whatever they may be...

The fact that teams like the Saints and Patriots, do so well with late round picks or UDFAs says other teams' scouts, personnel folks aren't getting it done...

And there's no excuse, Not with the access they have to resources and information that the general public don't have...

Re: Voluntary Workouts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 918675)

I would agree but... These 1st round draft picks are heavily vetted by many organizations physically, characteristically, and cognitively. There are absolutely zero excuses for making a 1st round draft pick and it being a wash other than process failure (note i said wash, not failure to start year one). If a team is not 90% sure of what they are getting they shouldn't pick in the first round just to splash a headline, it is a waste of resources, value, and screws other rookies in the draft who are ready..

First round draft pics vs starting rookie season is very much a skewed stat and drafting is more an art than inexact science. What the stat fails to account for are teams that draft BPA and not PON and already have a starter which is generally a draft pick with a future season in mind, this is a deliberate pick and has nothing to do with a rookie being able to tie down a spot his first year in the league..

The stat also doesn't account for the type of talent a draft pick has, some of these players have so much raw talent and such an extremely high ceiling it is difficult to pass up but the team drafting them know they have a lot of work to do. First round draft picks being expected to start year 1 is a fan thing, its the fans need for instant gratification and a win now mentality.

We do continue to develop after our teens but its minor development. A 21 year old idiot will generally be a 25 year old idiot in 4 years, while maturation can certainly slow someone down and certainly make them a more thoughtful decision maker, the behavior modification process after the formative years is subject to the law of diminished returns. Have you made a 10, 20, 30 year high school reunion? Not many make dramatic change after 21, spend much time on social media or here :) reading the fits of 60+ year olds ( I have actually been called a Boomer here so younger isnt exactly better either:D)?

Good decision makers are rarely made, objectivity is a difficult trait to learn because it requires a person to overcome emotion.:bng:

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 918692)

I would agree but... These 1st round draft picks are heavily vetted by many organizations physically, characteristically, and cognitively. There are absolutely zero excuses for making a 1st round draft pick and it being a wash other than process failure (note i said wash, not failure to start year one). If a team is not 90% sure of what they are getting they shouldn't pick in the first round just to splash a headline, it is a waste of resources, value, and screws other rookies in the draft who are ready..

First round draft pics vs starting rookie season is very much a skewed stat and drafting is more an art than inexact science. What the stat fails to account for are teams that draft BPA and not PON and already have a starter which is generally a draft pick with a future season in mind, this is a deliberate pick and has nothing to do with a rookie being able to tie down a spot his first year in the league..

The stat also doesn't account for the type of talent a draft pick has, some of these players have so much raw talent and such an extremely high ceiling it is difficult to pass up but the team drafting them know they have a lot of work to do. First round draft picks being expected to start year 1 is a fan thing, its the fans need for instant gratification and a win now mentality.

We do continue to develop after our teens but its minor development. A 21 year old idiot will generally be a 25 year old idiot in 4 years, while maturation can certainly slow someone down and certainly make them a more thoughtful decision maker, the behavior modification process after the formative years is subject to the law of diminished returns. Have you made a 10, 20, 30 year high school reunion? Not many make dramatic change after 21, spend much time on social media or here :) reading the fits of 60+ year olds ( I have actually been called a Boomer here so younger isnt exactly better either:D)?

Good decision makers are rarely made, objectivity is a difficult trait to learn because it requires a person to overcome emotion.:bng:

Bingo.

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 918692)

I was a troublesome child and a late bloomer who has spent the night in lockup before. If I had their kind of money I'd have been dead a long time ago. Thank goodness we were land rich and money poor.

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 918729)

You are not alone brother. When my wife asks where I would be today had I not met her and I say dead, she doesn’t entirely get it. You do though.

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 918758)

You are not alone brother. When my wife asks where I would be today had I not met her and I say dead, she doesn’t entirely get it. You do though.

Probably not dead, but in a far less hospitable existence. Most likely suffering from polyester poisoning.

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 918762)

Probably not dead, but in a far less hospitable existence. Most likely suffering from polyester poisoning.

Oh no, I'd certainly be dead!

Re: Voluntary Workouts

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Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 918796)

Oh no, I'd certainly be dead!

I was referring to my rescue.