Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Once again, Oak, I agree with you that the college stats are irrelevant. I was only replying in kind to Thirty3 who had tried to use Hill's college play (erroneously claiming that Taysom had broken all of Steve Youngs records) as support for Hill being better than Winston.

Oh, and I don't really follow college football. I of course know the conferences and their relative strengths, but I can seldom name more than a couple of players and that's only after Heisman hype begins.

:p

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

JN, this is a good post and I agree with most of it. My only point, and it’s one
that I don’t think some have accepted from me yet is that I don’t WANT Winston to win out over Hill. I don’t believe I have ever said that. I THINK he has shown so far to be the better QB and have more potential for growth than Hill. I THINK he can be a better QB for this team than Hill. I may be wrong of
course.

Winston historically has certainly had more negatives against him in his personality and actions than Hill. I can certainly understand why some want him to fail and are pulling for Hill over him. It’s not hard to understand why.

What I don’t understand is people writing him off and saying they “know who Winston is” and such type things. Acting like he has no chance. The numbers and video show differently. I posted a video of him with numerous plays that require immense skill and talent to perform. Skills that can only be done by someone who possess all the tools necessary to be a successful NFL QB, and the reaction from some is, “Sure, that’s a highlight reel”. Does that mean he didn’t pull off those plays? Does it mean he can’t make more of
those great plays and cut down on the bad ones under Payton’s coaching? I just don’t see why some aren’t willing to give him the same chance as Hill to win the job in Training camp. I’ve seen too many “We know what he is” type comments for me to wrap my head around. Especially for a QB that beat the Saints twice while he was with Tampa.

One last thing is about Winston’s actions and attitudes since he’s been a
Saint. I’ve heard nothing but positives about and from him since he’s been here. His talking about being a family man and getting married was an eye opener about his character for me. I know getting married and becoming a father straightened my ass out quite a bit. He never made a single complaint about Hill starting over him in Brees’s absence last year. He has maturely and gracefully accepted the backup role so he could get a “Harvard education” in QBing was the way he put it I believe. He also get LASIKS done to help his vision (another thing that made a big difference in my life). I just don’t understand the desire to write him off so readily when the option is the VERY unproven Hill.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Which if you look at things behaviorally/psychologically you should expect from fans who know in the back of their mind that Winston is the better QB but are coming off 15 years of Drew Brees.

The anchor is gone and its left a hole in the minds of fans, a hole that wont be filled with one shovel of dirt or comment on forums.

Making this racial is the least intellectually taxing or stimulating argument anyone can make. When a race card is dropped the real discussion about two QBs becomes dead and gone.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Possibly so about the race issue Oak. It’s not my normal go-to angle. However, players have been mentioning it for years, and the league has recognized its existence and has implemented a program to help black coaches in the league by rewarding those teams that help them get coaching jobs. It’s kinda hard to say it doesn’t exist AT ALL. When people say a 5,000 yard 33 TD passer who has lead a historically struggling team to a 9-7 record has no chance against a guy with 4 starts to his resume, you start scratching your head and trying to figure out where they are coming from.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Matters of racial bias and prejudice will forever be difficult to substantiate. There’s always some level of plausible deniability. I do know Aaron Brooks gets a lot of undeserved, hate for a QB that led us to our first playoff win in franchise history. He had a better winning percentage, completion percentage, more TD’s, and far less interceptions than Archie Manning. Aaron Brooks is the best QB not named Drew Brees in franchise history. Why the hate? If it’s because of his race, we’d still never be able to prove the disdain for him is based on racial bias. It’s a rabbit hole not worth exploring.

I can’t pretend that those sentiments don’t cross my mind when I hear people attempt to make a case for Hill over Winston, but trust me when I say, it’s not worth the headache. I’m with you. Winston is the younger, QB. He’s the more talented QB. He’s the more proven QB. He’s the QB that was compared to Peyton Manning when it came to X’s and O’s. He had maturity issues, but Hill has injury issues. He’s a faster version of Tim Tebow. I like him a lot, but there’s no scenario I can envision where Taysom Hill beats out Winston in an open competition.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Come on Rez, just because someone may have a different opinion than you or I shouldn’t automatically result in race being applied. I have been on record for saying that Winston is the better QB while Taysom is a gadget guy. But I definitely can see a scenario where Taysom could beat out Winston..., and it revolves around a QB who has 88 career int’s over 70 games as a starter. And has absolutely nothing to do with his race or even if I like/dislike the guy.

Turning the ball over as a QB will eliminate your team from postseason play almost always. Taysom has a tendency to turn the ball over also, but he just doesn’t have the stats over time that Jameis has. When I hear “We know what Jameis is”, it’s an argument I don’t agree with, but understand. I keep in mind that Tampa performance won’t necessarily result in NoLa performance though. But I’ve always been a believer in the best predictor for future behavior/performance is past behavior/performance.

Bottom line Jameis’ career stats are a double edged sword. They’re his strongest advocate..., and also his greatest detractor.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I’m not necessarily taking that position. I was just offering up my analysis on the position in general.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Pardon me for jumping in go, but they simply are not the double edge sword you are making them out to be. As demonstrated before there have been multiple
seasons for quarterbacks that made the Hall of Fame that had worse touchdown to interception ratio’s in a season than Winston; including a year when Brett Favre through 29 interceptions to only 20 touchdowns. Yet no one wrote Brett Favre off after that year. It’s simply a misnomer that his stats are that bad. Why did Favre, Elway, Manning and others get passes for seasons with negative 5, 6 or more Ints to TD seasons and Winston is branded for his career for a season he threw for 5,000 and had a +3 TD number? Answer me that simple question please ! Anyone!

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

I know you have pointed out that fact numerous times, Boston, but it is conveniently ignored as it plays havoc with their stance.

To add to your logical observation is also the fact that his last season was in Bruce Arian's "No risk it, no biscuit" offense where taking chances was expected. His 30 interceptions more than doubled his career interception average (14.5) from his previous four seasons. I have FAR more concerns with his demonstrated lack of maturity early on than his turnover numbers and it is appearing that he has made very positive strides in that area.

Re: Taysom Hill: “Really nice” to tailor all offseason work to playing QB
 

Who is giving him a pass? If those QB’s were on the Saints rosters after having horrible seasons wrt interceptions, I would be making the EXACT same argument that I am now. Those QB’s are all retired though, their stats and careers are history..., aka the past. What we’re discussing is the future. And anybody who says I don’t trust Winston to not throw a crapton of int’s has a legitimate point.

Winston could be the best thing in a Saints uni since crunchy peanut butter was introduced to the consumer market, lol. Entirely possible, entirely possible the opposite will happen. It’s not fair to compare already finished and completed careers to one that is in process. We, at least I, just don’t know the future. You know my arguments, lol, I’ve been very critical of Drew Brees this past year, and was called a “hater” many times, just for my criticism of his arm strength and ability to push the ball vertically. First ballot HOFer or not, the guy I want starting at QB is not the guy who says:

“I can’t make that throw,
I can’t make that throw,
I know I can’t make that throw,
I can’t make that throw...,
What do I have left in my toolbox”

I’m excited about the future, Hill, Winston..., or heck, maybe even Ian Book, or someone else!

May the best player get the start, stay healthy, and lead the Saints to many championships!!!

As far as Winston’s stats go? 88 int’s in 70 starts. That’s more than one int every game he’s started. Bad? That’s subjective. Me? I’m not ok with turning the ball over that much. You may evaluate turnovers differently though.