Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints

06-27-2021, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Mismanagement? #WTF?!?

Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl?

To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense.

jeanpierre · 06-27-2021, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense.

So what percentage of influence would place on the outcome of victory based on QB play?

Because this discussion is about to get real interesting in seven months where no less than four other teams just changed their starting QBs...

Tom Brady's experience and poise was absolutely the difference in TB getting to and winning the SuperBowl; yes, a great defense was also necessary...

Something Sean Payton took years to figure out, accept after winning only one Superbowl and getting rid of the only competent D-coordinator he had at that point...

Boston Saint · 06-27-2021, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Mismanagement? #WTF?!?

Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl?

You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise.

gosaints1 · 06-28-2021, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

So what percentage of influence would place on the outcome of victory based on QB play?

Because this discussion is about to get real interesting in seven months where no less than four other teams just changed their starting QBs...

Tom Brady's experience and poise was absolutely the difference in TB getting to and winning the SuperBowl; yes, a great defense was also necessary...

Something Sean Payton took years to figure out, accept after winning only one Superbowl and getting rid of the only competent D-coordinator he had at that point...

It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run:

1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team.

2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him.

3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own.

4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam.

Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was the deciding factor in their championship run.

Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam.

jeanpierre · 06-28-2021, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise.

Yeah, Bucs signed a better, proven quarterback that was available and won the Superbowl - Imagine That!

jeanpierre · 06-28-2021, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run:

1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team.

2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him.

3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own.

4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam.

Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was the deciding factor in their championship run.

Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam.

First season with the team, he's an all-time GOAT, and after a slow start behind a stocked team (Saints) with more time together, Bucs caught up...

No-brainer GM move to sign Brady and move on from the turnover clown; Jameis has a new start, with Sean Payton, we'll see how it plays out...

But to say the Bucs weren't smart going Winston to Brady, and that wasn't the difference, impact to put them over the top, you're just not facing reality...

Boston Saint · 06-28-2021, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Yeah, Bucs signed a better, proven quarterback that was available and won the Superbowl - Imagine That!

No one (at least not me) is arguing that Brady didn’t come in and help them to a SB. I would expect that type of thing from him. He’s a winner. But, He got to choose practically any team he wanted to go play for and he chose one that had a stacked WR corps and a blooming D that was super bowl caliber. Adding last years Brady at QB would have been an upgrade to a good 2/3 rds of the league. I was pointing out that their Franchise has been abysmal for a long time before this last season and well before Winston was there. You go through 15 years of getting top 10 picks in each round and you are eventually going to get some good players. Brady took advantage of that. Winston may have won the SB with that team and schedule as well.

Lord_Saint83 · 06-28-2021, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Mismanagement? #WTF?!?

Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl?

New coaches do that all the time. They have a guy in mind be it a rookie or free agent. Harbaugh with Alex Smith and keapernick and Payton with Brooks and Brees to name a couple. I don’t know why a lot of people are shi*ting all over Winston. The kid has a lot of upside and Sean is the one coach that can get him to wire his head and arse together. Am I saying he’ll be drew no. They are two different styles of qb’s. Winston is a gunslinger and Drew’s a precision qb. Give Winston a year and if he does good, great. If not then move on.

gosaints1 · 06-28-2021, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

First season with the team, he's an all-time GOAT, and after a slow start behind a stocked team (Saints) with more time together, Bucs caught up...

No-brainer GM move to sign Brady and move on from the turnover clown; Jameis has a new start, with Sean Payton, we'll see how it plays out...

But to say the Bucs weren't smart going Winston to Brady, and that wasn't the difference, impact to put them over the top, you're just not facing reality...

I hear you, and it’s a legitimate argument, tough to say the GOAT doesn’t have an impact on a new team. It’s just not the same team, nor coaches out in Strip Club Mecca though. Simply put, Tom Terrific doesn’t make it through NoLa without those four turnovers in the divisional round.

Boston Saint · 06-28-2021, 12:50 PM

I say that all things being equal money and contract status (I know it’s not), there are probably only 5-8 teams in the league that would have taken their QB over Brady straight up to start the 2020 season with the COVID protocols. To use the Bucs signing Brady as a mark against Winston is a stretch in my mind. Both were free agents. I’d have signed Brady over Winston for a year or two deal to chase a SB as well. Same as Denver did with Manning and Chiefs tried to do with Montana. If you want to say that proves Winston is a crap QB, then OK. We shall see.

06-27-2021, 08:56 PM	#41
Threaded by gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by jeanpierre Mismanagement? #WTF?!? Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl? To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense. AsylumGuido likes this.
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06-27-2021, 09:30 PM	#42
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by gosaints1 To be fair jp, it’s my belief that their Super Bowl win had very little to do with Tom Brady. I think they drafted well defensively over the past couple of years, post Winston, and it’s just now paying off for them. Entirely reasonable argument can be made that the Bucs, with the teams lined up the way they did, with Winston at the helm, would have won the SB also. Others may not agree with that belief, but I feel it’s a reasonable argument…, unprovable, but reasonable. That defense was legit, it destroyed the Saints offense. So what percentage of influence would place on the outcome of victory based on QB play? Because this discussion is about to get real interesting in seven months where no less than four other teams just changed their starting QBs... Tom Brady's experience and poise was absolutely the difference in TB getting to and winning the SuperBowl; yes, a great defense was also necessary... Something Sean Payton took years to figure out, accept after winning only one Superbowl and getting rid of the only competent D-coordinator he had at that point... gosaints1 likes this.

06-27-2021, 10:29 PM	#43
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,878	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Mismanagement? #WTF?!? Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl? You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise. AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

06-28-2021, 06:48 AM	#44
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre So what percentage of influence would place on the outcome of victory based on QB play? Because this discussion is about to get real interesting in seven months where no less than four other teams just changed their starting QBs... Tom Brady's experience and poise was absolutely the difference in TB getting to and winning the SuperBowl; yes, a great defense was also necessary... Something Sean Payton took years to figure out, accept after winning only one Superbowl and getting rid of the only competent D-coordinator he had at that point... It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run: 1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team. 2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him. 3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own. 4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam. Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was *the* deciding factor in their championship run. Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

06-28-2021, 10:27 AM	#45
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by Boston Saint You can’t argue that the stars sort of lined up for Tampa last year JP. They had gone 13 seasons without a playoff appearance before last year and finished last in the division 8 times in a 10 year stretch. It’s fair to say they have been a poorly managed franchise. *Yeah, Bucs signed a better, proven quarterback that was available and won the Superbowl - Imagine That!*

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06-28-2021, 10:33 AM	#46
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by gosaints1 It’s a fair point, and one that can’t be quantitatively proven…, nor disproven. Yes, the ‘street cred’ that Tom Terrific brings is an instant “influence” to a team…, but let’s look back at TB’s run: 1) Wild Card, Washington was a bad team, a very, very, very bad team. 2) Divisional, Saints turned the ball over four times, all Tom Terrific did was not screw up the advantages the defense gave him. 3) Conference championship, Didn’t Brady toss three interceptions in that game? He was fortunate Bowle’s defense offset those three with two turnovers of their own. 4) Super Bowl? lol, That game was decided by an immobile Mahomes, due to his injuries. Mahomes is KC…, they won’t go anywhere without him being healthy. Not all teams are that QB dependent though. Heck, the Saints just went 8-1 sans our future first ballot HOF’er. With very average QB play in DB#9’s absences, iyam. Saints are a good team, even without Drew Brees. My bias for younger players is obvious though, and it applies to Tom Brady, equally as much as it did to Mr Brees these past few years. After looking back and pouring over the possessions and stats for the TB 2021 playoff games, outside of the Washington game. It’s still my belief that Bowle’s defense was *the* deciding factor in their championship run. Differences in how we view things my friend. If Tom Brady were to have gone to a very bad Carolina football team…, would they have won the SB? It’s my belief the answer is no, they wouldn’t have even made the playoffs. I see those intangible qualities that you are seeing also…, and there is substantial value in that leadership quality that TB brought to Tampa. I don’t discount it. It was important to TB’s successes, but Tom Terrific in Carolina…, or Washington, or most other clubs, would have been an abysmal failure, iyam. First season with the team, he's an all-time GOAT, and after a slow start behind a stocked team (Saints) with more time together, Bucs caught up... No-brainer GM move to sign Brady and move on from the turnover clown; Jameis has a new start, with Sean Payton, we'll see how it plays out... But to say the Bucs weren't smart going Winston to Brady, and that wasn't the difference, impact to put them over the top, you're just not facing reality... jnormand, Rugby Saint II and gosaints1 like this.

06-28-2021, 10:49 AM	#47
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,878	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Yeah, Bucs signed a better, proven quarterback that was available and won the Superbowl - Imagine That!* No one (at least not me) is arguing that Brady didn’t come in and help them to a SB. I would expect that type of thing from him. He’s a winner. But, He got to choose practically any team he wanted to go play for and he chose one that had a stacked WR corps and a blooming D that was super bowl caliber. Adding last years Brady at QB would have been an upgrade to a good 2/3 rds of the league. I was pointing out that their Franchise has been abysmal for a long time before this last season and well before Winston was there. You go through 15 years of getting top 10 picks in each round and you are eventually going to get some good players. Brady took advantage of that. Winston may have won the SB with that team and schedule as well. AsylumGuido and gosaints1 like this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora

06-28-2021, 11:23 AM	#48
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Mismanagement? #WTF?!? Are you that detached from reality that you do not realize Tampa Bay just jettisoned Jameis Winston, signed Tom Brady, and won a Super Bowl? New coaches do that all the time. They have a guy in mind be it a rookie or free agent. Harbaugh with Alex Smith and keapernick and Payton with Brooks and Brees to name a couple. I don’t know why a lot of people are shi*ting all over Winston. The kid has a lot of upside and Sean is the one coach that can get him to wire his head and arse together. Am I saying he’ll be drew no. They are two different styles of qb’s. Winston is a gunslinger and Drew’s a precision qb. Give Winston a year and if he does good, great. If not then move on. iceshack149, AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and 4 others like this.
	Sometimes… You have to crush your enemies where they live!!!

06-28-2021, 12:27 PM	#49
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre First season with the team, he's an all-time GOAT, and after a slow start behind a stocked team (Saints) with more time together, Bucs caught up... No-brainer GM move to sign Brady and move on from the turnover clown; Jameis has a new start, with Sean Payton, we'll see how it plays out... But to say the Bucs weren't smart going Winston to Brady, and that wasn't the difference, impact to put them over the top, you're just not facing reality... I hear you, and it’s a legitimate argument, tough to say the GOAT doesn’t have an impact on a new team. It’s just not the same team, nor coaches out in Strip Club Mecca though. Simply put, Tom Terrific doesn’t make it through NoLa without those four turnovers in the divisional round. Boston Saint likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

06-28-2021, 12:50 PM	#50
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,878	Re: Jameis Winston’s potential with the New Orleans Saints I say that all things being equal money and contract status (I know it’s not), there are probably only 5-8 teams in the league that would have taken their QB over Brady straight up to start the 2020 season with the COVID protocols. To use the Bucs signing Brady as a mark against Winston is a stretch in my mind. Both were free agents. I’d have signed Brady over Winston for a year or two deal to chase a SB as well. Same as Denver did with Manning and Chiefs tried to do with Montana. If you want to say that proves Winston is a crap QB, then OK. We shall see. AsylumGuido and Lord_Saint83 like this.
	You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora