Deshaun Watson to Saints?

TheOak · 03-19-2022, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

What were the specifics of the Saints' offer to both the Texans and Watson? I have only seen speculations and rumors regarding the offers, so I'd be interested in knowing the facts.

I read at least one article during this past week that claimed Allen wanted Watson in a big way, and then in a few articles that Loomis was aggressive and all in on trying to land the deal. Which came first - the chicken or the egg?

Lastly, I just don't agree with you on the notion of "Watson fiasco." If you are approaching this from the morality standpoint, then you have to turn around and give Loomis and the FO credit for bringing in guys like Demario Davis and Benjamin Watson or severing ties with a player like Junior Gallette.

No one that I know of knows the specifics or I haven’t seen them available to the public. That said, there are reasonable assumptions that can be made due to the cap vs what we have to work with.

Look, I get the recent only the ‘only the facts matter’ movement but a fact of many matters is that perception can sometimes do more damage than reality and if no one had a discussion with those players before their names were listed that’s piss-poor management. I suspect agents were notified of the possibilities and they in turn told their players which is why there was a general tone change on social media for some.

And maybe no one said sh1t to anyone because no one’s name was up for trade but that in it self… well you see how much anxiety it created in these forums? Now be a player left in the wind.

If I’m a player and I’m traded as part of a last minute deal, I get it, that’s the game. If I’m part of a trade package for 3-4 days and no one tells me, I won’t tweet I’ll be in the correct persons office and we will discuss future expectations.

On your last paragraph you’ve completely misunderstood me. My comments have zero to do with my feelings on the morality of the decisions and everything to do with a players feelings after he puts in work year over year to build something and he is sent elsewhere due to someone else. This also isn’t about players that do not pull their weight lol, no one is wanting Junior Gallette in a trade.

Seriously these players get pissed if someone starts a game before them and you don’t see sending them to another team as a bone of contention?

FinSaint · 03-19-2022, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

well you see how much anxiety it created in these forums? Now be a player left in the wind.

How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did.

I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams.

Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan.

You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with.

rezburna · 03-19-2022, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did.

I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams.

Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan.

You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with.

Very true. Saints “fans” were heavily trolling CJ about being traded and telling him he’s not worth more than Watson. They basically told him he was dispensable. We’re having conversations about the front office but with social media the players hear the people loud and clear. Like I said before, y’all don’t think Marcus Williams heard all the hate? Michael Thomas definitely hears it. So when these players say **** it and dip nobody can really be mad. Fans don’t often have loyalty to players.

FinSaint · 03-19-2022, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Very true. Saints “fans” were heavily trolling CJ about being traded and telling him he’s not worth more than Watson. They basically told him he was dispensable. We’re having conversations about the front office but with social media the players hear the people loud and clear. Like I said before, y’all don’t think Marcus Williams heard all the hate? Michael Thomas definitely hears it. So when these players say **** it and dip nobody can really be mad. Fans don’t often have loyalty to players.

Exactly, and in my opinion, the Saints have shown by their past actions that they are loyal to their foundational players. On the other hand, they don't hesitate to ship out those who they feel are disruptive (right or wrong) as was the case with Cooks, Stills and Hicks.

It's a business, and players are commodities for the franchises, which is why fans should never be upset when players don't take a "hometown discount" to play for less than what they could get on the open market.

Most, if not all, of us are first and foremost fans of the team, and fandom of individual players can change greatly with their performance on the field, actions off the field and where they play. Same goes for the coaches and the front office. It's a shame some feel the need to seek out these individuals and vent their frustrations directly at them.

TheOak · 03-20-2022, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did.

I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams.

Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan.

You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with.

Your first paragraph. Not sure if there is a language barrier but I’ve never criticized the deal and haven’t mentioned what in the deal
Either good or bad because it’s unknown. I have no clue what you are going on about, I’ve not criticized it or tried to criticize the unknown.

About it being business and professionalism. When dealing with everything but players it’s 100% all about the terms and conditions on the paper (again if you missed it, I critiqued nothing here).

I agree that there are probably General Managers and coaches that look at players as horses at an auction and treat them as such. Keep them in the dark and then just give them a one liner and send them on their way.. Money Ball like. There are also true leaders in those positions that don’t just expect the horse to be professional, they lead lead by example. Professionalism means professional courtesy and treating your players/employees with humanity and respect. Those managers pick up the phone and take the 2 minutes to say “Ceedy, hard changes are coming. We value you and we do not intend on trading you. Things do not always go as planned but you now know as much as I know and we want to keep you as a Saint. You are hearing from me because I make the decisions and because when the Watson trade rumors hit the street, I want you to have the answers form me before you have questions to anyone else.” That two minutes gives him the knowledge to ignore social media, and deal with his family. Wait… did you forget that the business of trading in human equity more likely than not also involves uprooting a family? If you want to know how the family feels about it then go find Sproles’s wife’s tweets immediately after he was traded. If you are married then you understand that when your wife has a problem you share it.

I get your idealist outlook, perfect world, people behaving as they should, professionalism.. If all players behaved with professionalism, Deshaun Watson would not have been up for trade. If owners and GMs behaved professionally Watson wouldn’t have gone public about being lied to.

Usually it’s the Americans Horta trading under the name of business and the rest of the world trying g to remind them that humans and family’s are involved.

03-19-2022, 10:58 AM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints? Originally Posted by FinSaint What were the specifics of the Saints' offer to both the Texans and Watson? I have only seen speculations and rumors regarding the offers, so I'd be interested in knowing the facts. I read at least one article during this past week that claimed Allen wanted Watson in a big way, and then in a few articles that Loomis was aggressive and all in on trying to land the deal. Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Lastly, I just don't agree with you on the notion of "Watson fiasco." If you are approaching this from the morality standpoint, then you have to turn around and give Loomis and the FO credit for bringing in guys like Demario Davis and Benjamin Watson or severing ties with a player like Junior Gallette. No one that I know of knows the specifics or I haven’t seen them available to the public. That said, there are reasonable assumptions that can be made due to the cap vs what we have to work with. Look, I get the recent only the ‘only the facts matter’ movement but a fact of many matters is that perception can sometimes do more damage than reality and if no one had a discussion with those players before their names were listed that’s piss-poor management. I suspect agents were notified of the possibilities and they in turn told their players which is why there was a general tone change on social media for some. And maybe no one said sh1t to anyone because no one’s name was up for trade but that in it self… well you see how much anxiety it created in these forums? Now be a player left in the wind. If I’m a player and I’m traded as part of a last minute deal, I get it, that’s the game. If I’m part of a trade package for 3-4 days and no one tells me, I won’t tweet I’ll be in the correct persons office and we will discuss future expectations. On your last paragraph you’ve completely misunderstood me. My comments have zero to do with my feelings on the morality of the decisions and everything to do with a players feelings after he puts in work year over year to build something and he is sent elsewhere due to someone else. This also isn’t about players that do not pull their weight lol, no one is wanting Junior Gallette in a trade. Seriously these players get pissed if someone starts a game before them and you don’t see sending them to another team as a bone of contention?
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

03-19-2022, 11:40 AM	#2
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints? Originally Posted by TheOak well you see how much anxiety it created in these forums? Now be a player left in the wind. How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did. I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams. Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan. You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-19-2022, 12:45 PM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,023	Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints? Originally Posted by FinSaint How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did. I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams. Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan. You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with. Very true. Saints “fans” were heavily trolling CJ about being traded and telling him he’s not worth more than Watson. They basically told him he was dispensable. We’re having conversations about the front office but with social media the players hear the people loud and clear. Like I said before, y’all don’t think Marcus Williams heard all the hate? Michael Thomas definitely hears it. So when these players say **** it and dip nobody can really be mad. Fans don’t often have loyalty to players.

03-19-2022, 01:50 PM	#4
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints? Originally Posted by rezburna Very true. Saints “fans” were heavily trolling CJ about being traded and telling him he’s not worth more than Watson. They basically told him he was dispensable. We’re having conversations about the front office but with social media the players hear the people loud and clear. Like I said before, y’all don’t think Marcus Williams heard all the hate? Michael Thomas definitely hears it. So when these players say **** it and dip nobody can really be mad. Fans don’t often have loyalty to players. Exactly, and in my opinion, the Saints have shown by their past actions that they are loyal to their foundational players. On the other hand, they don't hesitate to ship out those who they feel are disruptive (right or wrong) as was the case with Cooks, Stills and Hicks. It's a business, and players are commodities for the franchises, which is why fans should never be upset when players don't take a "hometown discount" to play for less than what they could get on the open market. Most, if not all, of us are first and foremost fans of the team, and fandom of individual players can change greatly with their performance on the field, actions off the field and where they play. Same goes for the coaches and the front office. It's a shame some feel the need to seek out these individuals and vent their frustrations directly at them.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

03-20-2022, 10:03 AM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,043	Re: Deshaun Watson to Saints? Originally Posted by FinSaint How can we criticize the terms that the Saints offered if we don't know what those terms were? Also, clearly the Saints' FO had defined limits as to what they were willing (or capable) to offer, and weren't willing to offer what the Browns did. I really don't think the players supposedly involved and made aware of it hold a grudge or let hurt feelings to linger on. They are professionals and know what the deal is, and entering the FA period all of them udoubtedly, at least subconsciously, prepare for the possibility that they are switching teams. Now, what happened with Mayfield and Ryan is different, especially the situation with Ryan. You are correct that probably most of the anxiety created by the situation was amongst the fans, but that is nothing the Saints' FO should concern themselves with. Your first paragraph. Not sure if there is a language barrier but I’ve never criticized the deal and haven’t mentioned what in the deal Either good or bad because it’s unknown. I have no clue what you are going on about, I’ve not criticized it or tried to criticize the unknown. About it being business and professionalism. When dealing with everything but players it’s 100% all about the terms and conditions on the paper (again if you missed it, I critiqued nothing here). I agree that there are probably General Managers and coaches that look at players as horses at an auction and treat them as such. Keep them in the dark and then just give them a one liner and send them on their way.. Money Ball like. There are also true leaders in those positions that don’t just expect the horse to be professional, they lead lead by example. Professionalism means professional courtesy and treating your players/employees with humanity and respect. Those managers pick up the phone and take the 2 minutes to say “Ceedy, hard changes are coming. We value you and we do not intend on trading you. Things do not always go as planned but you now know as much as I know and we want to keep you as a Saint. You are hearing from me because I make the decisions and because when the Watson trade rumors hit the street, I want you to have the answers form me before you have questions to anyone else.” That two minutes gives him the knowledge to ignore social media, and deal with his family. Wait… did you forget that the business of trading in human equity more likely than not also involves uprooting a family? If you want to know how the family feels about it then go find Sproles’s wife’s tweets immediately after he was traded. If you are married then you understand that when your wife has a problem you share it. I get your idealist outlook, perfect world, people behaving as they should, professionalism.. If all players behaved with professionalism, Deshaun Watson would not have been up for trade. If owners and GMs behaved professionally Watson wouldn’t have gone public about being lied to. Usually it’s the Americans Horta trading under the name of business and the rest of the world trying g to remind them that humans and family’s are involved.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau