Is it time to shake up upper management?

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by papz

The root of the issue with CGJ not being here was money. Money we didn't have to give him which IMO, he certainly earned. Loomis failed with getting a contract done and Allen failed getting a bag of balls for the trade. Why in the flying F do we have Allen in position of making trades? That makes Loomis a fail on both accounts regarding CGJ.

They had and still have the money to give him if they wanted. They made a decision to get rid of him and do not doubt the trouble he was causing throughout the preseason was more of a factor than the contract demands.

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case.

Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference.

Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson.

C.J. Gardner-Johnson’s behavior towards Saints coaches reportedly paved way for trade

Scott Rogust - Aug 30

The New Orleans Saints trading defensive back C.J. Gardner Johnson to the Philadelphia Eagles shocked many. But according to one report, it was bound to happen.

On Aug. 30, the day of the NFL's roster cutdown deadline, the New Orleans Saints made a rather shocking decision. They decided to trade safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson and a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a 2023 fifth-round pick and a 2024 sixth-round pick. The move made Philadelphia's active offseason that much better. But why would the Saints trade away their talented defensive back?

According to New Orleans Football's Nick Underhill (subscription required), the Saints let it be known that they were not going to re-sign Gardner-Johnson "on his terms." Not only that, but Underhill reports that Gardner-Johnson "stopped taking coaching."

neugey · 11-16-2022, 12:29 PM

I'm having mixed feelings and trying to remember the particulars of Sean Payton's hiring. If Loomis was hired as GM and was the main guy responsible for interviewing and hiring Payton, who was a huge success, maybe we should give him a chance to find the next successful Saints head coach from the outside. But if his decision is to plod along with Allen and most of the current staff into next season and we ain't looking much better in January, that is where I'd start to roll my eyes and really feel we need a new GM as well.

My patience though with Loomis is growing thin, because if we are losing a lot of games paying for all those trade-ups in the draft and the dead-money cap limitations really start to hit home and lead me to believe we need a different financial approach to roster building.

Rugby Saint II · 11-16-2022, 12:46 PM

The way that Kai Harley has set up our salary cap has given us a lot of extra money to use on acquiring players. Last year we had an extra 25.7 million dollars to spend because of our financial structuring. I like Loomis, but he really is just being counter and does not have the qualifications for personnel to be a GM. And Jeff Island failed miserably his last go round so I don't think he's an option. He's good at what he does now though!

papz · 11-16-2022, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson.

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

halloween 65 · 11-16-2022, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

If that were true then CGJ and/or Williams would still be on the team.

I think CGJ leads the NFL in int's right now, 6 i think, to hand him over for a bag of balls like papz said, lunacy.

halloween 65 · 11-16-2022, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Teams let players go every year based upon salary and other concerns. While Williams might have been salary related, I believe that Gardner-Johnson, right or wrong, was moved due to being disruptive (refusing to practice and such). As for Williams, they had the ability to pay him more and even whatever he wanted, but, right or wrong, they probably believed he wasn't worth it. The same thing with Terron Armstead, but part of his departure may have been their disappointment with his availability.

It's too easy for fans to blame things on the cap when other factors exist. Ever since the advent of free agency players have been allowed to leave teams. Not having the funds to be able to pay them is seldom the reason.

Spin it how u want but very few teams let go of or trade poorly like a talent CJG was, that dude was just a plain stud. And being disruptive was them not giving him the money on a new contract. That's because of cap he!! we're in.MONEY!!

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Spin it how u want but very few teams let go of or trade poorly like a talent CJG was, that dude was just a plain stud. And being disruptive was them not giving him the money on a new contract. That's because of cap he!! we're in.MONEY!!

But we aren't in cap hell. And we have the money. For whatever reason (ie. his refusing to take coaching, demanding more than they felt he was worth) he's gone and at least they got something for him in exchange.

Boston Saint · 11-16-2022, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

Guido is delusional

rezburna · 11-16-2022, 05:06 PM

I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk.

11-16-2022, 12:11 PM	#11
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz The root of the issue with CGJ not being here was money. Money we didn't have to give him which IMO, he certainly earned. Loomis failed with getting a contract done and Allen failed getting a bag of balls for the trade. Why in the flying F do we have Allen in position of making trades? That makes Loomis a fail on both accounts regarding CGJ. They had and still have the money to give him if they wanted. They made a decision to get rid of him and do not doubt the trouble he was causing throughout the preseason was more of a factor than the contract demands.

11-16-2022, 12:17 PM	#12
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by Boston Saint Yeah, I felt really good going into game 1 until that trade happened. I (we) can only guess as to what happened and why we got so apparently little. On the surface it seems like a bad deal for the Saints. But I doubt we will know what happened in truth. CGJ is an emotional player and personality. Could be after negotiations broke down CGJ said “trade me to Philly. If you trade me anywhere else I’ll be a problem for my new team. If you don’t trade me I’ll be a problem for yours”. So the Saints decided to get what they could. Could be there were teams offering more than what Philly was and the front office/DA was dumb enough to take Philly’s offer anyway. Somehow I doubt that was the case. Regardless, how much cap space they had certainly made a difference. Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson. C.J. Gardner-Johnson’s behavior towards Saints coaches reportedly paved way for trade Scott Rogust - Aug 30 The New Orleans Saints trading defensive back C.J. Gardner Johnson to the Philadelphia Eagles shocked many. But according to one report, it was bound to happen. On Aug. 30, the day of the NFL's roster cutdown deadline, the New Orleans Saints made a rather shocking decision. They decided to trade safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson and a 2025 seventh-round pick to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a 2023 fifth-round pick and a 2024 sixth-round pick. The move made Philadelphia's active offseason that much better. But why would the Saints trade away their talented defensive back? According to New Orleans Football's Nick Underhill (subscription required), the Saints let it be known that they were not going to re-sign Gardner-Johnson "on his terms." Not only that, but Underhill reports that Gardner-Johnson "stopped taking coaching."
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-16-2022, 12:29 PM	#13
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? I'm having mixed feelings and trying to remember the particulars of Sean Payton's hiring. If Loomis was hired as GM and was the main guy responsible for interviewing and hiring Payton, who was a huge success, maybe we should give him a chance to find the next successful Saints head coach from the outside. But if his decision is to plod along with Allen and most of the current staff into next season and we ain't looking much better in January, that is where I'd start to roll my eyes and really feel we need a new GM as well. My patience though with Loomis is growing thin, because if we are losing a lot of games paying for all those trade-ups in the draft and the dead-money cap limitations really start to hit home and lead me to believe we need a different financial approach to roster building.

11-16-2022, 12:46 PM	#14
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? The way that Kai Harley has set up our salary cap has given us a lot of extra money to use on acquiring players. Last year we had an extra 25.7 million dollars to spend because of our financial structuring. I like Loomis, but he really is just being counter and does not have the qualifications for personnel to be a GM. And Jeff Island failed miserably his last go round so I don't think he's an option. He's good at what he does now though!

11-16-2022, 02:17 PM	#15
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,753	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Don't forget they had a ton of cap space that they had cleared for the run after Deshaun Watson. Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. saintsfan1976, SmashMouth, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.

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11-16-2022, 02:59 PM	#16
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by Boston Saint If that were true then CGJ and/or Williams would still be on the team. I think CGJ leads the NFL in int's right now, 6 i think, to hand him over for a bag of balls like papz said, lunacy. SmashMouth likes this.

11-16-2022, 03:07 PM	#17
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Teams let players go every year based upon salary and other concerns. While Williams might have been salary related, I believe that Gardner-Johnson, right or wrong, was moved due to being disruptive (refusing to practice and such). As for Williams, they had the ability to pay him more and even whatever he wanted, but, right or wrong, they probably believed he wasn't worth it. The same thing with Terron Armstead, but part of his departure may have been their disappointment with his availability. It's too easy for fans to blame things on the cap when other factors exist. Ever since the advent of free agency players have been allowed to leave teams. Not having the funds to be able to pay them is seldom the reason. Spin it how u want but very few teams let go of or trade poorly like a talent CJG was, that dude was just a plain stud. And being disruptive was them not giving him the money on a new contract. That's because of cap he!! we're in.MONEY!!

11-16-2022, 03:51 PM	#18
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by halloween 65 Spin it how u want but very few teams let go of or trade poorly like a talent CJG was, that dude was just a plain stud. And being disruptive was them not giving him the money on a new contract. That's because of cap he!! we're in.MONEY!! But we aren't in cap hell. And we have the money. For whatever reason (ie. his refusing to take coaching, demanding more than they felt he was worth) he's gone and at least they got something for him in exchange.

11-16-2022, 04:58 PM	#19
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. Guido is delusional

11-16-2022, 05:06 PM	#20
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk.