Is it time to shake up upper management?

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk.

We did. He wanted more than we wanted to pay. That happens all the time. We could have paid what he wanted but, right or wrong, they must have felt he wasn't worth it.

AsylumGuido · 11-16-2022, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Key word.

All that money was soon spoken for.

Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose.

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Guido is delusional

No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.

BakoSaint · 11-16-2022, 09:12 PM

Mickey Loomis thinks he is a better accountant than Smith Barney and Charles Schwab combined and Dennis Allen thinks the Vince Lombardi award should be named after him so when CGJ didn't return a phone call or wish them a happy birthday when he was holding out but still hitting the weight room, their egos freaked out and they tossed him to the curb for peanuts. Every team in every sports league in the world since the beginning of time immemorial has had players hold out. Remember when the Cowboys traded Zeke for a 5th. Or when Wilson made some noise about not being allowed to cook, the Seahawks got a 5th for him right? Deebo Samuel: 5th? The thing is, every other team in the league has either a GM who knows football or a coach with some ability to lead, so they kind of realize that holdouts happen and tend to pass. But we have dumb and dumber who the first sign of a holdout they got to send their pants to the dry cleaner and trade a young star who is under contract for a 5th.

With Marcus Williams we could have offered more if we had more to offer. We also could have franchise tagged him again but we probably didn't have the cash.

The way we managed the cap, we lost Terron Armstead and Marcus Williams this year. We didn't get any free agent to replace Armstead we mortgaged our draft future to get an unproven raw replacement. And we replaced Williams with a bargain basement washed older player and convict with disciplinary issues. And last year we lost a lot of players too. We lost Hendrickson for nothing. We lost Sanders and Cook who were not great, given, but they left us with giant holes at WR and TE and we did not have cash to sign replacements at similar salary, we went with Trout Man and Train Wreck who were cheap and talentless. The future of how Loomis manages our cap is we lose about 2 key players every year and replace them with bargain bin injury and suspension rejects or whatever few draft picks we dont trade away. It does not get better. It gets worse every year until we hit reset. Our competitiveness now is an illusion, but clinging to that illusion and not resetting will prevent us from ever gaining competitiveness again.

Rell&Gold · 11-16-2022, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk.

Ravens gave him 32mil guaranteed

neugey · 11-16-2022, 09:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3SA5Z-cbC8

Boston Saint · 11-17-2022, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk.

Baltimore offered him a lot more because they had the cap space to do so.

papz · 11-17-2022, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.

Where's this money you're talking about?

We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship.

We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well.

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

Boston Saint · 11-17-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz.

AsylumGuido · 11-17-2022, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by papz

Where's this money you're talking about?

We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship.

We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well.

Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once.

You are missing the point that the 2022 cap has nothing to do with the contract demands of Gardner-Johnson. He was already under contract for 2022, the final year of his original 4 year contract. He was refusing to practice while wanting a new 2023 contract. We have about $100 million in convertible cap available for 2023 in base salaries and bonuses. Money was not a problem. Philly is paying him his final year salary per his original contract. He hasn't received an additional penny yet. He is still on the same contract.

A second scenario: Let's say CGJ was indeed wanting to redo his final year as part of an extension which I believe you are trying to suggest. He was already on the books for a $2.7 million salary for 2022. They could have actually saved 2022 cap by redoing his final year by converting that $2.7 million into a signing bonus and spreading it over the term of his new deal. Let's say four years. That would make his 2022 base a little over $500K freeing up over $2 million in 2022 cap. They could have then made his 2023-26 salaries whatever was required not affecting the 2022 cap.

That's where the money is. The money was there. He was traded because he refused to practice and wouldn't work with the coaches. Pure and simple.

AsylumGuido · 11-17-2022, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz.

Black and gold colored.

11-16-2022, 04:09 PM	#21
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by rezburna I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk. We did. He wanted more than we wanted to pay. That happens all the time. We could have paid what he wanted but, right or wrong, they must have felt he wasn't worth it.

11-16-2022, 04:22 PM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Key word. All that money was soon spoken for. Had that money been allocated to Johnson, none of those issues would have arose. Originally Posted by Boston Saint Guido is delusional No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-16-2022, 09:12 PM	#23
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Mickey Loomis thinks he is a better accountant than Smith Barney and Charles Schwab combined and Dennis Allen thinks the Vince Lombardi award should be named after him so when CGJ didn't return a phone call or wish them a happy birthday when he was holding out but still hitting the weight room, their egos freaked out and they tossed him to the curb for peanuts. Every team in every sports league in the world since the beginning of time immemorial has had players hold out. Remember when the Cowboys traded Zeke for a 5th. Or when Wilson made some noise about not being allowed to cook, the Seahawks got a 5th for him right? Deebo Samuel: 5th? The thing is, every other team in the league has either a GM who knows football or a coach with some ability to lead, so they kind of realize that holdouts happen and tend to pass. But we have dumb and dumber who the first sign of a holdout they got to send their pants to the dry cleaner and trade a young star who is under contract for a 5th. With Marcus Williams we could have offered more if we had more to offer. We also could have franchise tagged him again but we probably didn't have the cash. The way we managed the cap, we lost Terron Armstead and Marcus Williams this year. We didn't get any free agent to replace Armstead we mortgaged our draft future to get an unproven raw replacement. And we replaced Williams with a bargain basement washed older player and convict with disciplinary issues. And last year we lost a lot of players too. We lost Hendrickson for nothing. We lost Sanders and Cook who were not great, given, but they left us with giant holes at WR and TE and we did not have cash to sign replacements at similar salary, we went with Trout Man and Train Wreck who were cheap and talentless. The future of how Loomis manages our cap is we lose about 2 key players every year and replace them with bargain bin injury and suspension rejects or whatever few draft picks we dont trade away. It does not get better. It gets worse every year until we hit reset. Our competitiveness now is an illusion, but clinging to that illusion and not resetting will prevent us from ever gaining competitiveness again.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,091

11-16-2022, 09:29 PM	#24
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by rezburna I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk. Ravens gave him 32mil guaranteed

11-17-2022, 06:33 AM	#26
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by rezburna I thought we made an offer to Marcus Williams and he just chose to walk. Baltimore offered him a lot more because they had the cap space to do so.

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11-17-2022, 08:09 AM	#27
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido No. All that money was not spoken for. Not delusional at all. The facts are that Gardner-Johnson was still under contract for 2022 under his original 4 year deal he signed with the Saints. We had, and still have plenty of 2023 cap available to make any number of deals, including an extension for him. He was wanting a new contract for more than we were willing to pay. But he refused to practice under his current contract and refused to do as the coaches asked under his current contract. They finally decided to trade him the final day before final cuts to 53. They could have just cut him and got nothing in return. Where's this money you're talking about? We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship. We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well. Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. halloween 65 likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

11-17-2022, 08:13 AM	#28
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz. papz and halloween 65 like this.

11-17-2022, 08:33 AM	#29
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by papz Where's this money you're talking about? We signed Maye, re-signed Winston, Mathieu, and Landry. All of this was done by the middle of May. CGJ saw all of this and wanted to get his being that he's under the last year of his rookie contract. Players re-negoiate all the time coming into the last year of their contract. Ideally you want to lock up players that important to your team prior to them hitting free agency. He took it as a slap in the face and started acting out. That could have been avoided completely. We let two young, damn good football players leave for practically nothing. At least one had to be re-signed and we dropped the ball because of what? Money we didn't have. We're scrambling at the beginning of every off season manipulating contracts to find more cap space. Like I said and how you completely ignore how it would be more advantageous, to start an off season for once, ahead of the curve and not behind. The strategy makes more sense for a team ready to compete for a championship. We currently have a little less than 3 million in cap space. You actually think that's enough to give him a serious offer? And no, we did not have to trade him. We could have put him on the roster and waited for a better deal as well. Take of those rose colored glasses and try being realistic for once. You are missing the point that the 2022 cap has nothing to do with the contract demands of Gardner-Johnson. He was already under contract for 2022, the final year of his original 4 year contract. He was refusing to practice while wanting a new 2023 contract. We have about $100 million in convertible cap available for 2023 in base salaries and bonuses. Money was not a problem. Philly is paying him his final year salary per his original contract. He hasn't received an additional penny yet. He is still on the same contract. A second scenario: Let's say CGJ was indeed wanting to redo his final year as part of an extension which I believe you are trying to suggest. He was already on the books for a $2.7 million salary for 2022. They could have actually saved 2022 cap by redoing his final year by converting that $2.7 million into a signing bonus and spreading it over the term of his new deal. Let's say four years. That would make his 2022 base a little over $500K freeing up over $2 million in 2022 cap. They could have then made his 2023-26 salaries whatever was required not affecting the 2022 cap. That's where the money is. The money was there. He was traded because he refused to practice and wouldn't work with the coaches. Pure and simple.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-17-2022, 08:34 AM	#30
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,048	Re: Is it time to shake up upper management? Originally Posted by Boston Saint LOL. We are talking about Guido here papz. Black and gold colored.