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We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I am glad we have been winning but I am skeptical of folks who think we are some kind of 2023 Super Bowl contender who should trade all our future first rounders, f the cap, and can win it all. ...

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Old 01-04-2023, 12:01 AM   #1
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We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

I am glad we have been winning but I am skeptical of folks who think we are some kind of 2023 Super Bowl contender who should trade all our future first rounders, f the cap, and can win it all.

Looking at our record this year I noticed a trend.

Lets define a stable established QB as one who was a regular starter last year and has not been benched for performance this year. We have not beat any team with such a starter able to play a full game against us this year.

Consider our wins:

1. Atlanta we beat Mariota, a 2022 backup making his first start with a new team with little fanfare.

2. Seattle we beat Geno Smith, a 2022 backup making his 5th start after inheriting the job with little fanfare.

3. Las Vegas we beat Derek Carr, who although established at the time has since been benched for performance after never suceeding in his new coaches system. Carr was also benched late in this game.

4. Rams Matt Stafford was an established starter but he has been plagued with injury and Bryce Perkins, a no name backup, took over mid way in a close game and took the loss.

5. Atlanta Desmond Ridders first start as a rookie second day pick.

6. Deshaun Watsonís rusty second game back after 2 years out of football.

7. Gardner Minshew filling in for Jalen Hurts.

Compare this to our losses. 6 losses to stable established starters: brady 2x, cousins, murray, burrow, jackson. Loss to garrapalo who was a starter last year and regained starting job this year after stupid experiment with draft bust. Loss to Kenny Pickett the only 1st round pick rookie we faced. Loss to Baker Mayfield who was a starter last year, came into the season a starter this year, and is starting again with another team now.

Its nice that we can beat teams trying out new QBs. But basically we are not beating anyone who brings a good stable qb who has been starting for his team since last year with safe job and healthy. Perhaps Allen is not improving, perhaps he just got a lucky to have 3 games in a row against the kind of QBs he has beat all year.

I dont know that we need to dump Allen at all costs if no clearly way better alternative like Payton or Harbaugh is available. But I think getting too excited about this streak and thinking we are Lombardi bound because of Thomas, Lattimore, and Peat inevitably being so healthy when they are a year older is unwise. We need to rebuild.
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Old 01-04-2023, 08:30 AM   #2
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Paralysis by analysis.
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Old 01-04-2023, 08:45 AM   #3
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

It's hard to take you seriously, Bako, when you can't get your "facts" even close to being right.

The Saints faced Watson in his FOURTH game back, not his second.

There are several other "stretches" you made to attempt to support your argument, but I have already wasted too much time responding, much the less even reading what you posted.
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Old 01-04-2023, 09:24 AM   #4
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
It's hard to take you seriously, Bako, when you can't get your "facts" even close to being right.

The Saints faced Watson in his FOURTH game back, not his second.

There are several other "stretches" you made to attempt to support your argument, but I have already wasted too much time responding, much the less even reading what you posted.
Minor errors happen. I remembered the last game he missed was against the bucs and may have mixed up with when we played the bucs which was 2 games before. And when I google searched watson it just showed 3 games in googles preview of his game log. But anyway yay crown Dennis Allen the heir to Lombardi because we beat a rusty Watson in his 4th game back from a giant scandal and missing all 2021 and most of 2022, a mediocre David Carr on his way to being benched for inability to tread water in his new coaches convulted system, and 2.5 quarters of a creaky old Stafford. The facts are that if you look the best most stable established QBs we faced its clearly guys like Brady, Jackson, Murray, and Burrow. And since Cousins has not been benched he comes in above Carr. And we lost to all those guys. There are borderline cases like Carr, Garappalo, Stafford, and Mayfield who all started last year but have had issues this year and it seems we are 50/50 on those guys. But clearly there is a pattern: clear undisputed starting qb this and last year we lose. Didnít start last year and wasnít a 1st round pick rookie we win. Borderline guy who started last year but has issues this year we win. We are not suddenly lombardi contender because we got to play the shaky qbs we can beat for 3 games in a row. There is no indication we can beat Maholmes, Allen, Jackson, Rodgers, Brady, Hebert, Hurts, or Prescott. We have not beat any QB in that class all year.
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Old 01-04-2023, 09:26 AM   #5
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Not following Bako because you cannot have a reasonable conversation on his core positions Ö Not worth the energy.
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Old 01-04-2023, 09:43 AM   #6
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat View Post
Not following Bako because you cannot have a reasonable conversation on his core positions Ö Not worth the energy.
Don't blame you. I've periodically done the same but end up opening him back up again hoping for different.
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Old 01-04-2023, 01:00 PM   #7
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat View Post
Not following Bako because you cannot have a reasonable conversation on his core positions Ö Not worth the energy.
My core position is that Mickey Loomis is a washed up GM and we need to rebuild. Your core position is that he a good GM and we are poised to win it all next year if we max out the cap and trade up. Our core positions are opposite, and I donít see you moving on yours either.
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Old 01-04-2023, 01:01 PM   #8
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

I agree with the overall synopsis that we have only beaten backup quarterbacks. There may be one or two contributing factors that change rookie to inexperienced quarterback. We definitely need a better quarterback than what we've got. Andy Dalton has done well considering he was our backup this year. However, Andy Dalton is not the future here.
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Old 01-04-2023, 02:16 PM   #9
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
My core position is that Mickey Loomis is a washed up GM and we need to rebuild. Your core position is that he a good GM and we are poised to win it all next year if we max out the cap and trade up. Our core positions are opposite, and I donít see you moving on yours either.
See THAT ^^^ is one "core position" that a lot of Fans aren't ready willing or able to face, let alone hold. Easier to swat at symptoms and blame our losing on injuries, mistakes, practicing on bad turf, refs, whatever - than to demand that root causes be addressed. The root causes cover all the symptoms, but too many Fans can't seem to accept that fact.
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Old 01-04-2023, 04:09 PM   #10
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Re: We Havenít Beat A Stable Established QB

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
My core position is that Mickey Loomis is a washed up GM and we need to rebuild. Your core position is that he a good GM and we are poised to win it all next year if we max out the cap and trade up. Our core positions are opposite, and I donít see you moving on yours either.
I see you have no true understanding of my "core position". However, you have continuously ran yours into the ground by attempting to shove it down everyone's throats numerous times a day for months. That's what I mean by wasting my time and effort. I'm not sure what audience you are trying to reach, but it surely isn't anyone that can make your dreams come true.
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