Register All Albums FAQ Community Experience
Go Back   New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com > Main > Saints

What Went Right & What Went Wrong

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Twitter...

Like Tree100Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2023, 08:06 AM   #91
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bossier City, LA
Posts: 24,394
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

AsylumGuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 08:11 AM   #92
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,874
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Fixed league.
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 09:38 AM   #93
Site Donor 2019
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bedford, TX
Posts: 24,053
Blog Entries: 3
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

It depends on where you get your information from.

SB Nation highlighted AT Perry & actually praised his debut performance.

Edit: Here is the link on Perry
SmashMouth likes this.
K Major is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 09:50 AM   #94
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,874
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
It depends on where you get your information from.

SB Nation highlighted AT Perry & actually praised his debut performance.

Edit: Here is the link on Perry
True and I’ve heard others praise him too. That came from @NFL though which makes it more “official” sounding. When the league highlights one receiver then neglects another who had more catches more yards and a better catch percentage then that’s saying something.
Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 11:45 AM   #95
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,759
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
Point is you say they stopped doing it when they did it this past draft. Are you saying you want every year to draft Oline with picks 3-6 despite team needs? Or are you just looking for your typical baseless reason to bash the front office?

If you’re gonna complain about drafting on the line, you’ve got much more ammunition on the Dline when they’ve had just as many if not more high rounds miss.
I don’t get whats so hard to understand. When we were most successful drafting oline we used 4 midround picks on the position in 3 years. Recently we only use one mid rounder on oline every 5 years: 4th in 23, 4th in 18, 3rd in 13. Its like when people complain we aren’t running the ball, its ridiculous to reply that they are wrong bc we had one rushing attempt in the last quarter, obviously their complaintvis that we are doing it at well below league average rates. For some reason we are great at finding oline in the mid rounds but insist on using the picks there at a far below league average rate, so when we have oline injuries the backup is not a young 4 th rounder with upside they are a journeyman or udfa we can scapegoat losses on.
BakoSaint is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 12:05 PM   #96
Bounty Money $$$
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA.
Posts: 23,739
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I don’t get whats so hard to understand. When we were most successful drafting oline we used 4 midround picks on the position in 3 years. Recently we only use one mid rounder on oline every 5 years: 4th in 23, 4th in 18, 3rd in 13. Its like when people complain we aren’t running the ball, its ridiculous to reply that they are wrong bc we had one rushing attempt in the last quarter, obviously their complaintvis that we are doing it at well below league average rates. For some reason we are great at finding oline in the mid rounds but insist on using the picks there at a far below league average rate, so when we have oline injuries the backup is not a young 4 th rounder with upside they are a journeyman or udfa we can scapegoat losses on.
I hear what you're saying. Maybe we just don't draft linemen very well. It's been quite some time since we nailed a first round lineman on offense of defense.
Rugby Saint II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 12:25 PM   #97
10000 POST CLUB
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bossier City, LA
Posts: 24,394
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II View Post
I hear what you're saying. Maybe we just don't draft linemen very well. It's been quite some time since we nailed a first round lineman on offense of defense.
Ramczyk is really good. Penning has signs of being a stud. Ruiz has really come on strong. Peat has been a three time pro bowler ('18, 19', 20') but hampered by injuries. That's not too bad for 1st rounders on that side of the ball.
WW_Who_Dat and Boston Saint like this.
AsylumGuido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 12:27 PM   #98
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,874
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I don’t get whats so hard to understand. When we were most successful drafting oline we used 4 midround picks on the position in 3 years. Recently we only use one mid rounder on oline every 5 years: 4th in 23, 4th in 18, 3rd in 13. Its like when people complain we aren’t running the ball, its ridiculous to reply that they are wrong bc we had one rushing attempt in the last quarter, obviously their complaintvis that we are doing it at well below league average rates. For some reason we are great at finding oline in the mid rounds but insist on using the picks there at a far below league average rate, so when we have oline injuries the backup is not a young 4 th rounder with upside they are a journeyman or udfa we can scapegoat losses on.
That still doesn’t make sense. So, rather than draft say, Ram, you would have waited and drafted a different o lineman in the 4th round instead? Whether it be making moves like trading Graham for a pick and Unger or NOT signing Armstead to the big contract you hate to spending high draft capital on the position the team has regularly done what has needed to maintain a top 10 offensive line in the league. Even a guy like Peat. I like to hack on him as much or more than the next guy but he is by far not the worst first round draft pick we’ve made. He’s even been to a few pro bowls.

Last year was a massive injury fest on the line. That really hurt us. But as pointed out by others practically every team has line questions. Over the past 20 seasons, the Saints have handled it better than most in the league. Sorry, I just don’t buy into the premise that the key to getting a good line is drafting guys in round 3, 4, and five frequently rather than draft them in round 1 or 2. We lose out on guys like Kamara that way.
jnormand and Rugby Saint II like this.

You think you know, but you don’t know...and you never will! Coach Jim Mora
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 09:08 PM   #99
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,759
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by Boston Saint View Post
That still doesn’t make sense. So, rather than draft say, Ram, you would have waited and drafted a different o lineman in the 4th round instead? Whether it be making moves like trading Graham for a pick and Unger or NOT signing Armstead to the big contract you hate to spending high draft capital on the position the team has regularly done what has needed to maintain a top 10 offensive line in the league. Even a guy like Peat. I like to hack on him as much or more than the next guy but he is by far not the worst first round draft pick we’ve made. He’s even been to a few pro bowls.

Last year was a massive injury fest on the line. That really hurt us. But as pointed out by others practically every team has line questions. Over the past 20 seasons, the Saints have handled it better than most in the league. Sorry, I just don’t buy into the premise that the key to getting a good line is drafting guys in round 3, 4, and five frequently rather than draft them in round 1 or 2. We lose out on guys like Kamara that way.
I never said we should never draft oline in the 1st round. But since 2015 we have drafted 5 oline in the 1st round, zero in the 3rd, two in the 4th, and zero in the 5th. We are ok at drafting oline in the 1st but Ramczyk is our biggest hit. Meanwhile with midround picks on oline over the years we have hit on Armstead, Evans, Nicks, and Bushrod, like half our mid round picks on oline have been starters and like one third pro bowlers.

I feel like a very 1st round heavy and mid-round light drafting strategy for oline is bad for our team. The result is a line of players who were entitled to start from day 1 bc they are 1st round picks and then a group of backups who are mostly journeymen, udfa, or very late rounds and dont have the physical tools to push them. Guys like Peat and Ruiz can feel entitled coming out of the draft bc they dont really have to compete, and as they dont progress they can still start bc the guy pushing them is an udfa without the size or athletics to match them, so they still feel like heroes without having to work. If you get two mid-rounders and one first round pick, the mid rounders have to compete to start, the 1st rounder sees a healthy competition and feels maybe he needs to compete too. If you just take two 1st rounders they both get entitled and maybe one of them works hard anyway and the other doesnt, but it doesnt matter they both start. And then if one gets hurt the udfa backup comes in and doesnt have the tools usually so you lose and blame injury. But if you have a bunch of depth from the mid rounds, your backup will be better, and can even compete to keep his job when the starter comes back. So I just think the strategy of building an oline from 5 first rounders who are all slated to start from day 1 (even if there is sometimes a 1 year wait with some impending free agent we dont plan to resign) is a bad way to build a team. You need competition. UDFA and journeyman are often not enough to provide it. Add to that we are great at finding gems on oline in the mid rounds, half our picks there perform like 1st rounders. We just refuse to pick oline much there since after our success at it in 06-08.
BakoSaint is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2023, 10:17 AM   #100
1000 Posts +
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,874
Re: What Went Right & What Went Wrong

Originally Posted by BakoSaint View Post
I never said we should never draft oline in the 1st round. But since 2015 we have drafted 5 oline in the 1st round, zero in the 3rd, two in the 4th, and zero in the 5th. We are ok at drafting oline in the 1st but Ramczyk is our biggest hit. Meanwhile with midround picks on oline over the years we have hit on Armstead, Evans, Nicks, and Bushrod, like half our mid round picks on oline have been starters and like one third pro bowlers.

I feel like a very 1st round heavy and mid-round light drafting strategy for oline is bad for our team. The result is a line of players who were entitled to start from day 1 bc they are 1st round picks and then a group of backups who are mostly journeymen, udfa, or very late rounds and dont have the physical tools to push them. Guys like Peat and Ruiz can feel entitled coming out of the draft bc they dont really have to compete, and as they dont progress they can still start bc the guy pushing them is an udfa without the size or athletics to match them, so they still feel like heroes without having to work. If you get two mid-rounders and one first round pick, the mid rounders have to compete to start, the 1st rounder sees a healthy competition and feels maybe he needs to compete too. If you just take two 1st rounders they both get entitled and maybe one of them works hard anyway and the other doesnt, but it doesnt matter they both start. And then if one gets hurt the udfa backup comes in and doesnt have the tools usually so you lose and blame injury. But if you have a bunch of depth from the mid rounds, your backup will be better, and can even compete to keep his job when the starter comes back. So I just think the strategy of building an oline from 5 first rounders who are all slated to start from day 1 (even if there is sometimes a 1 year wait with some impending free agent we dont plan to resign) is a bad way to build a team. You need competition. UDFA and journeyman are often not enough to provide it. Add to that we are great at finding gems on oline in the mid rounds, half our picks there perform like 1st rounders. We just refuse to pick oline much there since after our success at it in 06-08.
Fair enough. Seems to me that over that time period that the line was stable enough and they addressed deficiencies enough with multiple 1st rounder picks and trades/signings that adding 3-4 rounders either a) would not have made a difference and b) would have neglected other positions of need. I could be wrong. Just seems a pretty specific complaint though.
Boston Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com
no new posts