Pete Carmichael analytics show you something.

SmashMouth · 02-01-2024, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave?

Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up.

Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show.

Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications.

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

Just saw your reply. Carmichael definitely has his strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately his strengths seem to be tied to Payton. Yes, I wish him well, as well.

TheOak · 02-01-2024, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines?

Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well.

Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi.

Carmichael's title is that of Senior Offensive Assistant. Sounds like he'll be joining Payton back in the lab brewing up new plays.

iceshack149 · 02-01-2024, 10:16 AM

Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed.

This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

iceshack149 · 02-01-2024, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed.

This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...

AsylumGuido · 02-01-2024, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...

I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.

TheOak · 02-05-2024, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations...

There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels..

- If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age.

- As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts.

- Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play.

- Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises.

- Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success.

K Major · 02-01-2024, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

There it ‘tis’.

Mentioned this numerous times last season.

Saints take a UGLY loss against a BACKUP QB (Dobbs). Mind you, we ONLY became COMPETITIVE once Winston came in

.

Subsequent BYE week, then get embarrassed AGAIN to another back up (Deridder) in Atlanta. 10 day rest & perform that poorly?

Stale & predictable play calling … Pete should have definitely been relieved of his duties as OC. As you mentioned, that would have been a PERFECT opportunity to see what Ronald could do on his own as signal caller.

Saints organization has become PASSIVE.

Beating the likes of Chicago, Giants, Panthers, etc was fools gold.

Yet we are here … again.

02-01-2024, 07:15 AM	#1
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,022 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak Much like a meme that makes you laugh way harder than it should this is intriguing the crap out pf me. If I am Gayle, I am on a plane to Denver to buy Sean dinner and ask him what I am missing? Why did he really leave? Gayle just let go of an 18 year employee because she was led to believe he was the roadblock to the teams success. Only to wake up to the person that arguably knows his talents best but owes him nothing picking him up. Lets assume Pete is as useless as we've tried to believe. This would make Sean an idiot and does not explain the success they had together in New Orleans. Drew might explain that but I struggle with it being a 1 man show. Lets assume Pete is as good as Sean thinks he is. Did Pete just tank a season to get out of New Orleans? What is so bad in New Orleans that he would do that? How did Dennis Allen not see it and allow it to happen? I have so many questions and they all have very dark implications. SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. AsylumGuido likes this.

02-01-2024, 08:06 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. Just saw your reply. Carmichael definitely has his strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately his strengths seem to be tied to Payton. Yes, I wish him well, as well.

02-01-2024, 08:53 AM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by SmashMouth SP is the play caller and the true OC. Pete is the guy that handles laminating the play call sheet SP uses on the sidelines? Good for Pete Carmichael, though. We wish him well. Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi. K Major likes this.

02-01-2024, 08:56 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by TheOak Yes great for Pete. Great for anyone that can manage to maintain a career in that league. Will be interesting to see what his role will be as Denver has not jetted Joseph Lombardi. Carmichael's title is that of Senior Offensive Assistant. Sounds like he'll be joining Payton back in the lab brewing up new plays.

02-01-2024, 10:16 AM	#5
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,441 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season.

02-01-2024, 10:32 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season. I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed. This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes.

02-01-2024, 10:33 AM	#7
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,441 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I can see Gayle's fingerprints all over that decision. I have often heard the description of her affection for both Loomis and Payton as that of the love for the sons she never had. I can easily see some of the similar feelings for someone with as long a tenure with the team as Carmichael enjoyed. This is much the same reason why I cannot see Gayle ever cutting ties with Mickey Loomis until he either chooses to retire or upon her death. My guess is he'd retire before she passes. Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations... Sinner likes this.

02-01-2024, 10:42 AM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations... I believe it's pretty clear that she sees the Saints as far more than just a business. This is one of the reasons why she has mandated the Saints remaining in New Orleans even past her eventual passing. Personally I'll take that sort of guidance over a cutthroat bottom line leader any day. In my many years of working within organizations of all sorts I'd take the former over the latter every time. Times have changed and I understand the younger generations see things like this differently, but it is understandable that she feels the way she feels. If not ours Saints could very well have been elsewhere years ago.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-05-2024, 07:25 AM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Add blind loyalty in business to my list of frustrations... There is a lot more to all of this than just business and very little brand loyalty regardless of what delusional rationalization has been levied. Its little more than logical fallacy and if you pick at a thread it all unravels.. - If Gayle stated that she saw Mickey as a son that would be rather sick as she is only 9 years older than he is. She has zero children and should be fairly aware of the perception of age gap since Tom was 20 years older as she was only 1 year away from Toms son's age. - As far as any blind devotion to Loomis from Gayle or Tom for that matter. In 2012 Sean Payton wanted a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave if Loomis were ever suspended, fired, or left the organization. Sean would have known if there was any sort of blind devotion to Loomis and that clause wouldn't have been requested. The league rejected the language because of the bad precedent it would set for future coaching contracts. - Tom fought and disowned his own family to prevent the Saints from being moved and his will named Gayle as sole owner because his children would have sold and or moved the team. We can keep thanking Tom for the Saints being in New Orleans as well as the fact that the Superdome lease is not up until 2030. After that, if there is no venue, secessions can read anyway they want the team will be sold out of state because no one in Louisiana will buy a team with no place to play. - Guess who will administrate Gayle Benon's estate? Not the pseudo son Loomis, its Dennis Lauscha. Tom's will stated that if the trust formed the same day the secession was signed ceases to exist, all of his property would go into another trust run by Gayle and Dennis Lauscha, with Gayle having exclusive voting power in matters concerning the sports franchises. - Lastly is the premise that Gayle has this mystical generationally dependent loyalty to the franchise. That sort of loyalty wouldn't let the franchise go to shi1t over the course of two years without swinging an axe at those held accountable for its success. saintsfan1976 and Sinner like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-01-2024, 11:33 AM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,845 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Pete Carmichael analytics show you something. Originally Posted by iceshack149 Amongst many frustrations with the Saints organization the most annoying decision the team made was to keep Carmichael all season and not drop him midseason when everyone knew he wasn't the answer. We could have watched how Ronald Curry handled the offense after the bye week and the team would therefore make a more informed decision on Pete's replacement for the 2024 season. There it ‘tis’. Mentioned this numerous times last season. Saints take a UGLY loss against a BACKUP QB (Dobbs). Mind you, we ONLY became COMPETITIVE once Winston came in . Subsequent BYE week, then get embarrassed AGAIN to another back up (Deridder) in Atlanta. 10 day rest & perform that poorly? Stale & predictable play calling … Pete should have definitely been relieved of his duties as OC. As you mentioned, that would have been a PERFECT opportunity to see what Ronald could do on his own as signal caller. Saints organization has become PASSIVE. Beating the likes of Chicago, Giants, Panthers, etc was fools gold. Yet we are here … again. dizzle88 and Sinner like this.