Haener

rezburna · 01-03-2024, 12:46 PM

We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan.

Sinner · 01-03-2024, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan.

There’s a fine line between optimism and being unrealistic. That line ain’t so fine here.

Danno · 01-03-2024, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan.

I expected improvement but it looks like we got exactly what he is for exactly what he's worth

A mid-tier QB at a mid-tier contract.

We can win with Carr, but we better improve greatly on defense and our O-line.

Sinner · 01-03-2024, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I expected improvement but it looks like we got exactly what he is for exactly what he's worth

A mid-tier QB at a mid-tier contract.

We can win with Carr, but we better improve greatly on defense and our O-line.

Yeah I mean it’s not like we saw this coming from a million miles away when Drew was in decline…

“Just keep doing what you’re doing…”
“We have all the right people in the building…”

Rugby Saint II · 01-04-2024, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by iceshack149

I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB.

Carr's numbers aren't bad -- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well.

Honestly, Carr looked better once he got some protection from the O line. If we solidify the O line through the draft and free agency this offseason he could be just good enough.

Carr was hurt early and often while still playing through the injuries and it had to affect his game. He had a crappy line and a crappy coordinator this year. Give him a better line and a competent aggressive alpha male OC who knows how to scheme to his players strengths.

Like you said, he's here at least next year. I agree about passing on a QB in the draft. For one thing we don't really have the ammo to move up and if we win Sunday we will pick lower in the draft and a few low comp picks isn't enough ammo.

Originally Posted by rezburna

At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like.

The Saints have never fired a coach after two years. DA's got another year to mislead our team.
I like the Dorsey prospect.

Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay.

I still feel good about the organization....for now. We are still coming out of a very good record recently with this organization.

This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team.

It's all part of the master plan to fold for Arch!

Originally Posted by hitta

I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass.

I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC!

hitta · 01-04-2024, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC!

As do I. We also need someone who knows how to call plays in the red zone. We don't move the ball horribly between the 20s. It could be much much better, it's below average, but we still accumulate some yardage. It's like once we hit the 30 yd line we start doing go routes and **** that make no sense. It feels like we can't even get a couple of yds. This is how I know there is something wrong more on the OC side than the QB side and why we can't really judge our QBs yet. I've seen Carr play great for Oakland. People pretend like he didn't have some good years, but he did. You have to keep moving the markers in creative ways. It's like the closer to the goal line we get, the lower the IQ of Carmichael gets and it's not too high to begin with.

I'm not sure Dennis Allen has the demeanor to be an HC, but he's got the defense playing well. You can't fault him for that. Dennis Allen is a smart guy. He may be a bit too smart and introverted. He has no energy. You can fault him for team camaraderie, togetherness, preparedness, etc. Still, I think we have a good roster and I believe that if we had a good OC we could compete for a Super Bowl even with Allen.

rezburna · 01-04-2024, 10:17 PM

Drew Brees for OC.

MatthewT · 01-05-2024, 07:01 AM

The stats we are all accustom to reading would indicate Carr is a decent QB. Watching Carr tells a different story. He gets rattled way to easy, he consistently throws a couple yards short on 3rd downs, doesn't move the team consistently, has a long history of ups and downs in the red zone, and seems to have communication issues with receivers. He is generally a 7 to 9 win QB, with a great team around him may be good enough to get to the playoffs.

SmashMouth · 01-05-2024, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Drew Brees for OC.

It's been suggested before. He don't want none of that arduous schedule. And he just started his own YouTube channel analyzing other QBs. Funny part is he's not doing an analysis on DC4.

K Major · 01-05-2024, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

It's been suggested before. He don't want none of that arduous schedule. And he just started his own YouTube channel analyzing other QBs. Funny part is he's not doing an analysis on DC4.

Right.

Mr. Southlake (Chase Daniels) did an analysis after the Jags loss, but never again

.

I was glad he pointed out why Carmaxx takes sacks & rarely scrambles ... poor pocket awareness.

After 10 seasons, he is what he is. MID.

01-03-2024, 12:46 PM	#41
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,239	Re: Haener We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan. MatthewT, saintsfan1976, SmashMouth and 3 others like this.

01-03-2024, 12:49 PM	#42
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,083	Re: Haener Originally Posted by rezburna We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan. There’s a fine line between optimism and being unrealistic. That line ain’t so fine here.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,083

01-03-2024, 04:00 PM	#43
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,761	Re: Haener Originally Posted by rezburna We’ve seen Carr under other OC’s in Oakland and he was pretty much always mediocre. He has one 30 TD season. I’m not sure why there’s some optimism, but I understand being a loyal fan. I expected improvement but it looks like we got exactly what he is for exactly what he's worth A mid-tier QB at a mid-tier contract. We can win with Carr, but we better improve greatly on defense and our O-line. iceshack149, jnormand, saintsfan1976 and 1 others like this.

01-03-2024, 04:15 PM	#44
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,083	Re: Haener Originally Posted by Danno I expected improvement but it looks like we got exactly what he is for exactly what he's worth A mid-tier QB at a mid-tier contract. We can win with Carr, but we better improve greatly on defense and our O-line. Yeah I mean it’s not like we saw this coming from a million miles away when Drew was in decline… “Just keep doing what you’re doing…” “We have all the right people in the building…” K Major likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,083

01-04-2024, 04:10 PM	#45
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,250	Re: Haener Originally Posted by iceshack149 I know that this will bring the ire of a few posters here but Derek Carr really isn't the Saints biggest problem right now and he's likely better than Winston and Haener. In the next draft the Saints should focus on building from the ground up, so to speak. Work on both lines (especially the O-line) and go from there. I'd even get an LB or RB before thinking about drafting a QB. Carr's numbers aren't bad -- I know he's got situational awareness issues-- but I think that the Saints can work with him going forward. That and they're married to his contract for a while as well. Honestly, Carr looked better once he got some protection from the O line. If we solidify the O line through the draft and free agency this offseason he could be just good enough. Carr was hurt early and often while still playing through the injuries and it had to affect his game. He had a crappy line and a crappy coordinator this year. Give him a better line and a competent aggressive alpha male OC who knows how to scheme to his players strengths. Like you said, he's here at least next year. I agree about passing on a QB in the draft. For one thing we don't really have the ammo to move up and if we win Sunday we will pick lower in the draft and a few low comp picks isn't enough ammo. Originally Posted by rezburna At this point, we have to be realistic and assess the situation based on the way this organization runs. I’m pretty sure Carr will be the QB and Allen will be the coach. Saints have the 13th ranked defense which will save Allen his job, and I’ve started seeing more and more Saints fan make the same excuses for Carr that Raiders fans did for those 9 years of mediocrity. They’re going to run it back and we’ll have to pray for the best. I’m not sure who the offensive coordinator will be, but Ken Dorsey fits the mold of someone I believe Mickey Loomis would like. The Saints have never fired a coach after two years. DA's got another year to mislead our team. I like the Dorsey prospect. Any optimism I had about this organization is currently running close to empty. I see Carr as nothing more than an expensive band aid trying to cover up multiple bullet wounds. I don’t think he’s better than Jameis Winston at anything other than protecting the ball. Andy Dalton could have given us 21 TD’s and 8 picks on a season for a whole lot cheaper, but Carr and his contract is here to stay. I still feel good about the organization....for now. We are still coming out of a very good record recently with this organization. This rebuild is going to be messy, and if we aren’t strategic and lucky, very long. Depending on what we do going forward, we could have $96 million in cap space going into 2026. That’s the Arch Manning year. Sounds like a story the NFL script writers might be interested in. Arch comes home to New Orleans to redeem his grandfathers team. It's all part of the master plan to fold for Arch! Originally Posted by hitta I don't believe any of our QBs have shown us what they have. We have the worst OC in the league. An OC can make all the difference in the world for a QB. I won't say anything about any QB until we get an OC that can call plays. Situational awareness issues within the context of a play could be due to how the play is designed read-wise, I am warning you all against reading anything into any QB we have. Like I see people saying Carr missed someone open but it might be one of the last reads in the play scheme. The QB may see someone open along the way but how they view the play is dependent on the OC. Playreads are more technical than people realize. It's like the order of operations or something. Carmichael also sucks so hard in the red zone. I don't care for Winston honestly, but I'm even giving him a pass. I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC! iceshack149, jnormand and AsylumGuido like this.
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01-04-2024, 08:02 PM	#46
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,348	Re: Haener Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I hope we are heavily researching a young aggressive OC! As do I. We also need someone who knows how to call plays in the red zone. We don't move the ball horribly between the 20s. It could be much much better, it's below average, but we still accumulate some yardage. It's like once we hit the 30 yd line we start doing go routes and **** that make no sense. It feels like we can't even get a couple of yds. This is how I know there is something wrong more on the OC side than the QB side and why we can't really judge our QBs yet. I've seen Carr play great for Oakland. People pretend like he didn't have some good years, but he did. You have to keep moving the markers in creative ways. It's like the closer to the goal line we get, the lower the IQ of Carmichael gets and it's not too high to begin with. I'm not sure Dennis Allen has the demeanor to be an HC, but he's got the defense playing well. You can't fault him for that. Dennis Allen is a smart guy. He may be a bit too smart and introverted. He has no energy. You can fault him for team camaraderie, togetherness, preparedness, etc. Still, I think we have a good roster and I believe that if we had a good OC we could compete for a Super Bowl even with Allen. jnormand, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,348

01-04-2024, 10:17 PM	#47
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,239	Re: Haener Drew Brees for OC. MatthewT and Sinner like this.

01-05-2024, 07:01 AM	#48
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Haener The stats we are all accustom to reading would indicate Carr is a decent QB. Watching Carr tells a different story. He gets rattled way to easy, he consistently throws a couple yards short on 3rd downs, doesn't move the team consistently, has a long history of ups and downs in the red zone, and seems to have communication issues with receivers. He is generally a 7 to 9 win QB, with a great team around him may be good enough to get to the playoffs. Danno and Sinner like this.

01-05-2024, 09:21 AM	#49
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 39,272 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Haener Originally Posted by rezburna Drew Brees for OC. It's been suggested before. He don't want none of that arduous schedule. And he just started his own YouTube channel analyzing other QBs. Funny part is he's not doing an analysis on DC4. Rugby Saint II, Sinner and K Major like this.

01-05-2024, 09:35 AM	#50
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,919 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Haener Originally Posted by SmashMouth It's been suggested before. He don't want none of that arduous schedule. And he just started his own YouTube channel analyzing other QBs. Funny part is he's not doing an analysis on DC4. Right. Mr. Southlake (Chase Daniels) did an analysis after the Jags loss, but never again . I was glad he pointed out why Carmaxx takes sacks & rarely scrambles ... poor pocket awareness. After 10 seasons, he is what he is. MID. SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and Sinner like this.