Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 997571)

Too much gambling can also put you in a bad spot for years to come.

For over 40 years I kept saying that I wanted the Saints to win it all one time before I died. They finally did in 2010. And a few years later our name finally came up for season tickets after a 15 year wait. At this point in my life I just want to be able to go to games in the Dome and feel like we have a good chance of walking away with a win. Another championship would be great, but to me it isn't as important as being able to be competitive week in and week out. The fun of being a loyal fan is more important than winning it all. Going through dismal seasons again with the feint hope of someday becoming dominant would be at the very least a huge letdown.

The simple fact is that you nor any of your flunkies can have any impact on this season whatsoever. The perpetual complaining has ruined the site. Any time anyone tries to simply talk about the team either you or one of the flunkies have to hijack the thread to start up yet another ***** session. I agree with the others that this has gotten beyond tolerable. Why don't y'all go find somewhere else, anywhere else, to gripe non-stop?

Originally Posted by BakoSaint (Post 997534)

Realistically I think 9-8 with a historically easily schedule is equivalent to 7-10 with a normal schedule. But the Saints have a notably, but not historically, easy schedule next year, so if they fielded the same team, 8-9 would be a reasonable expectation. But also, this does not account for the Falcons adding Cousins who is a clear major upgrade, so 7-10 is also realistic if Cousins is healthy.

Carmichael being the weakest link is a case of hindsight being 20/20. As you point out, the Saints did not have the weakest offense ever and were not 3-13. Carr has never won a playoff game, despite 10 or so previous years with other OCs. Dennis Allen's best two seasons as a head coach both came with inherited Carmichael as his OC not his hand picked OC's with the Raiders. Allen and Carr were steadfastly loyal to Carmichael during the season and only change their tune when it was his ass or theirs that had to go. We don't know how much Allen, Loomis, or Carr may have interfered with the offense. It is also possible that management forced Carmichael to start Penning at LT, and then to change the entire offense to make covering for Penning a priority over getting open. It's possible Carmichael started mailing it in because he wanted out because impossible things were being asked of him, like covering for the front office drafting some juco sclub with zero talent by making him look like a starting LT for a pass first QB when Penning may not belong in the NFL.

Likewise, it is not proven that Kubiak is any savior. SF was similar before and after his 1 year stint as an assistant. Kubiak could not save Nathaniel Hackett in Denver, nor get Cousins a ring in Minnesota.

Overall, I view replacing Carmichael with Kubiak as 'if we can't make the big change that we probably need, we might as well try the smaller change that might help' but I view it as very possible that Kubiak will be the same or worse because its very possible Carmichael was not the problem and actually has a more successful track record than Carr or Allen in the past.

As to your other points:

1. I agree a win here would be nice. Given Allen's track record, there is not really a precedent for it though, unless one of them is starting a backup QB. Most likely we lose all 3 games.

2. Most likely outcome is 1-2 but 2-1 is possible. You have to account for the Falcons adding Cousins. Cousins is generally a little better than Carr and the Falcons have a much better oline than the Saints even if they are also in a sorry state with a lousy coach and dumb GM. They paid millions to beat the Saints and may achieve that.

3. Both these teams beat the Saints last year. The Saints were the oldest team, had many vets get older, and replaced 3 starting oline with one rookie changing positions. So realistically, more likely we lose these games.

4. Again, we lost to this type of opponent last year, and generally seem to have a weaker roster except for theoretical hope in an offensive coordinator change from a largely unproven/inconsistent young coordinator who we can hope will be good.

None of this means I am not optimistic. I am just optimistic that we can rebuild if we remain fiscally responsible, we can attract a better head coach if we are not ridiculously over the cap, and we can draft a talented young QB if we don't give away all our future draft picks to Howie Roseman. I am optimistic for the scenario I can see with the Saints hosting a Lombardi, and that scenario doesn't happen to feature Derek Carr in 2025 because I don't view that as realistic, because I think the only way that happens is if Kubiak is the best offensive coordinator in the history of football.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997578)

Outstanding analysis.

This is the reason I put these games on my list. Collectively, along with the other 3 division games, they will define the 2024 season for the Saints. If it goes badly:
0-3
1-2
0-2
0-1
----
1-8

Then the season is sunk. However if the Saints can do a little better than treading water:
1-2
2-1
1-1
1-0
----
4-4

Then they have a shot depending on the other 3 division games. But even though this is treading water, this would be a team that can at least can compete because it has wins against upper echelon NFL talent.

It's only going to take 6 weeks to see how the season goes. 1-5 we can write it off. 4-2 or 3-3 especially with 2 division wins means that there is still a chance.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997536)

Salient points… with a whole lotta ifs…

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997580)

That's what Saints seasons are now. A whole lotta ifs. The days of Drew Brees coming in knowing that the offense has 24 points before the game starts and the team has 7 wins in the bank before the season starts are gone.

If everyone stays healthy. If the O-line can hold up enough not to get Carr killed. If the defensive line can get pressure. If the secondary doesn't fall apart for yet another year. If DD56 can be a warrior for yet another year. If Grupe can make the clutch kick when needed. If tthe new guys can grow fast enough to make a contribution.

Every season now is a lot of ifs. It makes every game like a Forrest Gump box of chocolates.

That's why treading water in the first 6 games is going to be crucial. The difference between 1-5 and 3-3 with at least 2 division wins will literally define the entire season.

Hopefully the ifs, especially the injury ones, will be cut down in the first 6 weeks.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997579)

since you all like what you read......

ranked

22. New Orleans Saints
The New Orleans Saints are essentially running it back with the same cast from the 2023 season, albeit with some minor changes. Years of kicking salary-cap problems down the road are finally starting to catch up to New Orleans. Realistically, this team just doesn’t have the talent or youth to be viable in the NFC. Expect Dennis Allen to be featured prominently on the hot seat this fall.

*the hot seat = possibly winning just enough to remain a contender for the (not so hotly contested) NFC SOUTH, keeping the masochists happy to sing “Kumbaya”, and keeping the seat just hot enough to burn the a$$es of loyal fans, but not hot enough to eject Dennis Allen. Sounds about right.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997582)

National ranking people are dismissive of the Saints. They didn't even have the Saints ranked #1 after they won the SuperBowl in 2009 in the preseason of 2010.

We just don't know yet how the same RB corps is going to do in this new offense yet.

The Saints are being ranked low because of the uncertainty. Best believe if they find a way to upset Dallas or KC, those national media people will somewhat change their tune.

How about you see if you can find a bit more positive spin. I know it's hard to do. But I bet there is one out there somewhere.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997582)

National ranking people are dismissive of the Saints. They didn't even have the Saints ranked #1 after they won the SuperBowl in 2009 in the preseason of 2010.

We just don't know yet how the same RB corps is going to do in this new offense yet.

The Saints are being ranked low because of the uncertainty. Best believe if they find a way to upset Dallas or KC, those national media people will somewhat change their tune.

How about you see if you can find a bit more positive spin. I know it's hard to do. But I bet there is one out there somewhere.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997582)

National ranking people are dismissive of the Saints. They didn't even have the Saints ranked #1 after they won the SuperBowl in 2009 in the preseason of 2010.

We just don't know yet how the same RB corps is going to do in this new offense yet.

The Saints are being ranked low because of the uncertainty. Best believe if they find a way to upset Dallas or KC, those national media people will somewhat change their tune.

How about you see if you can find a bit more positive spin. I know it's hard to do. But I bet there is one out there somewhere.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 997586)

It ain't in the guy, SFIAH. Hate is hard to shake I suppose.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997581)

Too many years of “ifs”, while other teams have consistently developed CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER franchises.

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997587)

starting with you. :beatnik: first fire.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997542)

With the contract that our (dis) organization gave Carr, chances of finding anyone better are not slim… they are none.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997535)

Look at YOU… crying about how unfair life is. Gonna be a long season brother! 🤪

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997590)

That contract is not ironproof. If there were a guy that the Saints were willing the spend the money on, they could construct another contract to make it work.

Fact of the matter is because Carr's contract balloons after this year, something is going to have to give. So, if the Saints wanted someone else, they could designate him as a post June 1 trade/cut and get in a new guy.

But as always, who might that be? Tua? Now you've gone from $35 mil/year to $50M/year.

Who better could the Saints have gotten last off season when they picked up Carr? And why when top tier QBs are making $50M/year plus would you think the Saints could get a top 10 QB for anything less?

SFIAH

Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 997543)

Haener or Rattler could very well be better in the near future.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997591)

He was observing how you cry here about unfair life as a Saints fan now is. He wasn't crying. He said that you were. Which of course, is all that you do.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997553)

No. I’m here to talk about my Saints. You’re here to talk about ME.
We’re different.

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997554)

It’s not about luck. It’s about recognizing where your strengths lie, and focusing on it as a priority, and kicking the Raider-Refuse to the curb.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997588)

Nope. There is exactly one CHAMPIONSHIP CALIBER franchise in the NFL: the Kansas City Chiefs. No one else is close. Everyone else has their ifs also.

2 years ago Philly was a championship caliber franchise. They were in the SuperBowl. Last year they fell apart. LA Rams reached the top once, and are pretty mid now.

GM/HC/QB combos are magical when they work. Payton/Brees, Belichik/Brady, Reid/Mahommes. But they are no plucked off trees, or organizations that naturally grow them.

I realize now that you have a flawed notion of how championship football works. You can have the best combos in the world (McDermott/Allen,Harbaugh/Jackson) and never still actually climb the mountain to the top.

And every one of these except for Reid/Mahommes have ifs.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997560)

mansplain.... :rofl: Truth hurts. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997595)

No sir. I'm the one here to talk about you. Though I agree with Iceshack's general sentiment that you should take your whining elsewhere.

You have still not posted one single positive item about this year's squad. Every one of your post is how terrible they are, how the organization is mismanaged, and how you miss Payton and Brees.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997598)

You keep saying that 'Truth hurts' as if no one recognizes that the organization could be better. But none of you never ever ever EVER! tell truth about how to fix it, or who to get that can fix it.

Because you don't have a clue about how to do it. Truth hurts.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997561)

facts... not trash. Saints bring it upon themselves. What is a shame, is that you cannot see it, and obviously the people in charge of the Saints organization don't care . :beatnik:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997601)

TRASH. TRASH! TRASH!

That's all you know how to do. This is nearly the same front office that brought you a SuperBowl and multiple championship quality teams. Do you really think one day they just said "We don't need to try amymore. It doesn't matter."?

Their jobs are hard. Building an entire organization that can consistently compete is hard.

You, and that other one, never ever ever want to make any suggestion about how you can actually make it better. All you want to do is trash the teams here and call it "facts."

The fact is that you don't know how to fix it. But yet you want to come here and trash the Saints organization because they have the same challenges.

Put up or shut up! Give us some idea of how to fix this beyond Fire Allen or just keep your facts, and truth, and TRASH that nobody wants to hear anymore to yourself.

I know that you think if you just keep posting one liners, that eventually I'm going to give up. I'm not. Because I have a plan. I will challenge you everywhere on this board until you two put it some real ideas on how to fix this.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997562)

Nope.... Saints board is EXACTLY the place to voice my opinion and disapporval of the current situation with the Saints. otherwise those that do have the power to change things see it. After all, they MUST be reading it. They see all you other fans so Excited about the upcoming season.... I for one, want them to see a disgruntled "baby boomer" fan's opinion and said disgruntled view. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997603)

No it's not. Not every day. Not every post. Not in every thread. It's not for that. You can address Loomis and his staff directly. You don't need to post here for him or his guys to see it. The chances that any of them pay any attention to this fan forum is exactly zero.

So, all you're succeeding in doing is pissing us off. And now you and your little buddy have finally done it with me.

I am telling you. We don't want to hear this every damn day. If you have issues with the Saints organization, go take it up with them.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997563)

why.... same team, same coach, same owner, same fans that like mediocracy. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997564)

facts are facts. reality is reality.... dreaming is dreaming. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997605)

Same team, same coach, same owner went 9-8 last year. What happened such that they could not win one more game than last year?

As for fans and mediocrity reasonable people make a choice between being a fan of the team that they have or stop being a fan. Both are fine. What is not fine is what you are doing, which is is you are no longer a fan because they are not a championship caliber squad anymore, and you are determined to take any fan that is willing to follow the team as it's constructed and dump trash on them until they stop.

The rest of us here have put up with this for far too long. Your whining about what the Saints are now is just pointless. It's time to pack up and go to training camp. There's no longer time or space here to have you guys trash dumping on a daily basis. That part of the season is over and done with.

Face it. You have the same team. You have the same coach. You have the same owner. You already know what the results are going to be. So, you can just leave and come back in January when the team, or coach, or maybe the owner may be different.

But dammit until then just leave us the hell alone in peace so we can talk about the same team, the same coach, and the same owner in our "mediocrity".

SFIAH

Originally Posted by leilung (Post 997565)

Is it possible to bring #9 back to help out the QB stable? With the young new talent, could he possibly coach them a bit? Or is he all in on Pickle Ball?

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997569)

I’d bring back Drew’s left arm, coached by Quido’s late Father-in-Law, and we’d see more exciting results than Allen and Carr.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997609)

So you would endanger the greatest QB in Saints history to your entertainment?

Sounds about par for the course for you.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997576)

How about you stop telling people what to do and where to go, and learn how to scroll on (since your IGNORE function is in the same state of disrepair as our Saints)? If you grow up and/or grow a pair, you’ll live longer.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997611)

Because you are everywhere, as exhibited by this exact post. Neither of them were talking to you. But because it's Guido, you just had to inject yourself into the conversation doing the exact same thing, specifically telling people what to do, as Guido is.

And again you can't go a single solitary post, including this one, without trashing the Saints.

So, Guido is right here. Make a single trash the Saints thread, and everyone like you that gets off on that and go to town.

But you don't want to do that. If you did that, then we wouldn't all be miserable. And since your objective is clearly to have everyone on this board as miserable as you are about the Saints, it'll never happen.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by mapcow (Post 997583)

back in 2009 .... I KNEW the Saints were a team to be reckoned with.... not so today. It is hard to find any positive spin on any Saint reporting because it ain't out there. :beatnik:

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997584)

“We just don't know yet how the same RB corps is going to do in this new offense yet.”

Well managed teams KNOW.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 997613)

And that's fair. But I can't get you guys to see that we see that reporting everywhere. Every national media outlet thinks of the Saints as an afterthough. Most of time it's because they haven't even bothered to take the time to adequately research the team.

The one place I used to be able to get away from that is here. And some folks here are determined to destroy that. That is what has me so fired up.

And you keep bringing up mediocrity. And that simply talking about the current team is somehow an acceptance of it.

I don't how you guys spend all day just talking about how terrible the team and how everybody sucks. All day. Every day. Every post. it's exhausting.

It just want a training camp where we can talk about training camp. I want preaseason games where we just talk about preseason games. I don't need every thread, every post to discuss the Saints supposed disorganization. I don't need to hear your truth every damn day because there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Not here. Not anywhere else. That is an issue for January 2025, not today.

I'm tired of being beat with the baseball bats of you guys negativity each and every day.

Just go create your own subforum here where ya'll can ***** and moan to your heart's content and leave the rest of us alone.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by Sinner (Post 997592)

Stop with the “coulda”. Carr is our guy. Now run with it. LOL