Potential 2025 Rebuild Math

Sinner · 07-29-2024, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You say it's all about winning it all, right? And when did the 49er's win their last Super Bowl? If I'm not mistaken the Cowgirls have even won a Super Bowl since the 49er's won their last.

Shirley, you digress…

BakoSaint · 07-29-2024, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

You say it's all about winning it all, right? And when did the 49er's win their last Super Bowl? If I'm not mistaken the Cowgirls have even won a Super Bowl since the 49er's won their last.

I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl.

Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me.

You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year?

Sinner · 07-29-2024, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl.

Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me.

You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year?

Even when not “winning it all”, one would have to be on crack, no matter how loyal a Saints Fan one might be, to compare the quality of product between last season’s niners (no matter how much one might hate them) and our Saints.

AsylumGuido · 07-29-2024, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl.

Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me.

You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year?

So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that!

At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done.

Sinner · 07-29-2024, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that!

At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done.

Bro, you’re happy with stinking up the dome just bad enough to renovate the restrooms for as long as you live. Sit down.

K Major · 07-29-2024, 05:34 PM

lol

K Major · 07-29-2024, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal.

+1.

And to 99.999 percent of the Owners/GMs, coaches.

Did you catch the very first episode of Giants Hard Knocks? Their GM said it several times within the first 5 minutes of the show.

MINDSET.

If LD Bell misses the post season (again), he needs to be shown the door.

AsylumGuido · 07-29-2024, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me.

I doubt anyone truly feels that the Super Bowl isn't the ultimate goal. I sure don't. But there have to be intermediary goals for those in charge. There's no guarantee any move made by any franchise will result in a path to the championship or backfire and lead to years of struggle. Those goals may include a winning record. Or a playoff win. Or a trip to the conference championship game. Or even an appearance in the Super Bowl itself, win or lose.

BakoSaint · 07-29-2024, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that!

At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done.

Let me clarify. We can't go all in like the Bucs did with Brady and Gronk if we don't build a war chest first by not going all-in when we don't have a war chest of carried over cap and don't have an elite QB. You have to save to spend. Living paycheck to paycheck and maxxing the credit cards that were already maxxed before making the minimum payment doesn't work. Every dime you could but don't borrow/spend now is a dime you can borrow/spend later, and by waiting until later you can build up a war chest to spend it all at once and overwhelm the competition. This is a league where 4-13 one year and 13-4 the next year is a better outcome than 8-9 one year and 9-8 the next year, so spending money unevenly makes more sense unless you have a Patrick Mahomes who can make you 13-4 every year.

I don't expect Patrick Mahomes will become available as a free agent or via a reasonable trade offer any time soon, unless he becomes so banged up we should not want him or that he would be very risky to acquire.

Going all-in does not necessarily mean going all-in on the QB position. Hypothetically, a team could win with a Carr-like QB I guess, by going all in on extreme surrounding talent. Lets say Kool Aid developed into Deion Sanders, Chase Young resumed his early career track and developed into the next Reggie White, Demario Davis showed no signs of aging, and Fuaga made the pro bowl, and the Saints went 12-5 but could not beat the 49ers or Lions quite yet. At that point you could go all-in to win now by signing or trading for pro bowl caliber players at RT, WR, TE etc. Like the spending sprees that, got the Bucs and Rams their rings. But to go on a spending spree like that, you need the cash, so it helps if you are not already starting $90 million over the cap and can barely get under and sign one name player.

Its all about timing, but if you max out like every year is your time, then when it really is your time, you can't do anything extra that offseason. It will be a shame if the Saints do get within reach of a ring but can't make the extra push for the players they need because too much cash was wasted in deferred compensation to aging players and trying to 'win now' every previous year when it wasn't in reach. You have to save to really be able to spend. And if you don't have a QB like Mahomes, you probably need to be able to really spend when it counts to win.

I never mentioned the Cowboys. If anything the Cowboys are an example of the failure of trying to 'reload not rebuild' and have modeled the always competitive and never on top results you define as success.

As for the 49ers, it makes no sense for you to call 3 Super Bowl appearances, all close games, an abject failure, but at the same time argue that by poaching their 1 year passing games coordinator offensive assistant, we are guaranteed a perfect record because they are so great.

AsylumGuido · 07-30-2024, 07:44 AM

20-0 Baby!!

Championship!!

07-29-2024, 03:26 PM	#31
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You say it's all about winning it all, right? And when did the 49er's win their last Super Bowl? If I'm not mistaken the Cowgirls have even won a Super Bowl since the 49er's won their last. Shirley, you digress…
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815

07-29-2024, 03:57 PM	#32
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,087	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by AsylumGuido You say it's all about winning it all, right? And when did the 49er's win their last Super Bowl? If I'm not mistaken the Cowgirls have even won a Super Bowl since the 49er's won their last. I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl. Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me. You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year? saintsfan1976 and Sinner like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,087

07-29-2024, 04:06 PM	#33
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by BakoSaint I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl. Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me. You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year? Even when not “winning it all”, one would have to be on crack, no matter how loyal a Saints Fan one might be, to compare the quality of product between last season’s niners (no matter how much one might hate them) and our Saints.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815

07-29-2024, 04:16 PM	#34
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,044	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by BakoSaint I will admit going to OT against Mahomes in the Super Bowl is respectable too. When Carr does that, call me back. But alas even if the Super Bowl was the absolute only thing that mattered, your argument doesn't hold water, because I also pointed out a team that rebuilt and won the Super Bowl. Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me. You admit that not every team can have a Patrick Mahomes, but you ignore the fact that the last teams to win it all without a Patrick Mahomes did so by not settling for an 'average' qb (Rams dumping Goff) and going under the cap to build a financial war chest before going all-in (Bucs with Brady). One could also argue that the Bucs didn't settle for an 'average' QB when they let Winston walk. Yet you think we can win it all by settling for an average qb and spending the same cash every year because we never save a dime to double it up the next year? So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that! At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done.

07-29-2024, 04:20 PM	#35
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by AsylumGuido So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that! At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done. Bro, you’re happy with stinking up the dome just bad enough to renovate the restrooms for as long as you live. Sit down. K Major likes this.
Sinner 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,815

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07-29-2024, 05:34 PM	#36
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,588 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math lol

07-29-2024, 05:44 PM	#37
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,588 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by BakoSaint Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. +1. And to 99.999 percent of the Owners/GMs, coaches. Did you catch the very first episode of Giants Hard Knocks? Their GM said it several times within the first 5 minutes of the show. MINDSET. If LD Bell misses the post season (again), he needs to be shown the door. Sinner likes this.

07-29-2024, 06:05 PM	#38
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,044	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by BakoSaint Ultimately to me the Super Bowl is the goal. But when you get to the conference championship or super bowl and play respectably, it does mean you are close, its a good thing. Having a .500-ish or barely winning record and maybe sneaking into the playoffs and getting trounced means little to me. I doubt anyone truly feels that the Super Bowl isn't the ultimate goal. I sure don't. But there have to be intermediary goals for those in charge. There's no guarantee any move made by any franchise will result in a path to the championship or backfire and lead to years of struggle. Those goals may include a winning record. Or a playoff win. Or a trip to the conference championship game. Or even an appearance in the Super Bowl itself, win or lose.

07-29-2024, 06:16 PM	#39
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,087	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math Originally Posted by AsylumGuido So basically, what you are are saying, is that we need to do what the Bucs did with Brady and go all in on Mahomes when he becomes available in five years. Sounds good to me. Until then, give me an average QB until that move becomes available. Right there with you on that! At least we won't go twice as long since our last Championship like both the Cowboys (29 years) and 49er's (30 years) have done. Let me clarify. We can't go all in like the Bucs did with Brady and Gronk if we don't build a war chest first by not going all-in when we don't have a war chest of carried over cap and don't have an elite QB. You have to save to spend. Living paycheck to paycheck and maxxing the credit cards that were already maxxed before making the minimum payment doesn't work. Every dime you could but don't borrow/spend now is a dime you can borrow/spend later, and by waiting until later you can build up a war chest to spend it all at once and overwhelm the competition. This is a league where 4-13 one year and 13-4 the next year is a better outcome than 8-9 one year and 9-8 the next year, so spending money unevenly makes more sense unless you have a Patrick Mahomes who can make you 13-4 every year. I don't expect Patrick Mahomes will become available as a free agent or via a reasonable trade offer any time soon, unless he becomes so banged up we should not want him or that he would be very risky to acquire. Going all-in does not necessarily mean going all-in on the QB position. Hypothetically, a team could win with a Carr-like QB I guess, by going all in on extreme surrounding talent. Lets say Kool Aid developed into Deion Sanders, Chase Young resumed his early career track and developed into the next Reggie White, Demario Davis showed no signs of aging, and Fuaga made the pro bowl, and the Saints went 12-5 but could not beat the 49ers or Lions quite yet. At that point you could go all-in to win now by signing or trading for pro bowl caliber players at RT, WR, TE etc. Like the spending sprees that, got the Bucs and Rams their rings. But to go on a spending spree like that, you need the cash, so it helps if you are not already starting $90 million over the cap and can barely get under and sign one name player. Its all about timing, but if you max out like every year is your time, then when it really is your time, you can't do anything extra that offseason. It will be a shame if the Saints do get within reach of a ring but can't make the extra push for the players they need because too much cash was wasted in deferred compensation to aging players and trying to 'win now' every previous year when it wasn't in reach. You have to save to really be able to spend. And if you don't have a QB like Mahomes, you probably need to be able to really spend when it counts to win. I never mentioned the Cowboys. If anything the Cowboys are an example of the failure of trying to 'reload not rebuild' and have modeled the always competitive and never on top results you define as success. As for the 49ers, it makes no sense for you to call 3 Super Bowl appearances, all close games, an abject failure, but at the same time argue that by poaching their 1 year passing games coordinator offensive assistant, we are guaranteed a perfect record because they are so great. Sinner likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,087	Last edited by BakoSaint; 07-29-2024 at 06:26 PM..

07-30-2024, 07:44 AM	#40
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,044	Re: Potential 2025 Rebuild Math 20-0 Baby!! Championship!!