So... who you got as next Saints HC ?

iceshack149 · 10-18-2024, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

I like Flores too. I think Miami ran him off a little early.

I think Flores ran himself off in Miami.

BakoSaint · 10-18-2024, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Nobody up and coming or a big name like Bellicheck will touch the job. $81ml over the cap and look at the highest earners and dead money vs cap savings

With 6 picks next year
Round 1
Round 2
Round 3
Round 4
Round 6
Round 6

Way over the cap with a injury probe, over paid roster than you likely have to stick with and few picks to change things up.

If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding.

Danno · 10-18-2024, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding.

I never bought in to that "we're gonna need 3 or 4 years to rebuild"

With free-agency, the draft and undrafted free-agents, a team can be rebuilt in one season.

From my view shoring up the trenches solves 80% of our problems roster wise. Thats the roux we need for that excellent pot of gumbo. Throw in some spicy free-agents and a skill stud or two and we're back on top, roster wise.

lee909 · 10-18-2024, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Not so sure... think about it. Endure the pain for a year or two with cap cleansing attrition, the benefit of which is high draft picks for at least a couple of years. If you can continue to find gems in UDFA, it can be done.

Saints need a HC the players will respect and listen to. The johny-come-latelys are mostly unproven. Might get lucky, might not.

I remember SP conveying a story about Parcells and staying too long with a certain franchise. The win now culture has shown us the demise of longer tenured coaches with one team, Tomlin notwithstanding. It's the old argument: Is it the coach or the HOF QB? Probably a little of both. Andy Reid says hello in KC after all these years in Philly.

I say let's get our own Andy Reid in bringing BB here. The man just knows and understands football. And he wants to continue coaching. He loves it.

While that makes sense for a front office, how many coaches are going to survive 2 or 3 bad years before they start to see the hopefully improved years. You are likely on the hot seat before the light is visable at the end of the tunnel

BakoSaint · 10-18-2024, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I never bought in to that "we're gonna need 3 or 4 years to rebuild"

With free-agency, the draft and undrafted free-agents, a team can be rebuilt in one season.

From my view shoring up the trenches solves 80% of our problems roster wise. Thats the roux we need for that excellent pot of gumbo. Throw in some spicy free-agents and a skill stud or two and we're back on top, roster wise.

We can get back to competing quickly. But, it will take until 2026-2027 to full heal our salary cap if we go all in to rebuild, longer if we go slower. 2025 we will have to do restructures to afford the cap hits the to get rid of the dead weight. Much of that will hit as dead cap in 2025 but big hits from the two designated post-june-1 cuts, i would propose Carr and Ram, will hit in 2026. But then again our 2026 cap situation will look no worse, it will just be dead cap hits for Carr and Ram instead of their massive salaries, so it will be a minor issue. Then in 2027 we could have a fairly clean cap.

We could contend in 2025 and 2026 with the right draft picks and maybe a few value free agents. But sometimes a team that is almost all the way there needs big cap money to bring in the next Tom Brady, Jalen Ramsey, or Trent Williams to become the top dog. We certainly wont have the money to do that until 2026 or later, ideally 2027 or later.

I think the smart more is to cut the dead weight and aging injured players, try to build a young core, cleanup our cap, and try to find a young QB who clearly has what it takes. Then when that QB is in his window to win and we clearly need a little more boost, then spend the money to get a big free agent and take a shot. Don't spend the big money just to try to get the wildcard, get the wildcard through the draft, hopefully the division through the draft, and then spend for the ring.

lee909 · 10-18-2024, 05:32 PM

You need to be really strict and accept it will be a up and down ride for a couple of years. But if fans see the bright side they will stick with younger players more than highly paid vets. No signing players with injury flags, no signing vets on long/high paid contracts. You want players under 28 who have 3-5 years left minimum at a high level so they can lead and grown with young players.

Sell that to the best UDFA and players needing to make the step up from back ups to starters in free agency.

But most of all you need a front office that is scouting better and using a data department to find players that are underused,that will play beyond their pay. Data is being used in soccer now at quite a few clubs(Red Bull group,Liverpool,Brighton,probably doesn't interest many on here) once football started taking notes from Billy Beane and money ball ideas in baseball and its been a massive success at all them clubs. When you get a coach,data team and good scouting it leads to big improvements.

The Scouting department needs ripped up, who knows if its scouts not having a eye for talent or Ireland/Loomis,Allen ignoring them. But since that 2017 draft that should have set this team up for a decade this is the drafts

Marcus Davenport
Tre'quan Smith
Rick Leonard
Natrell Jamerson
Kamrin Moore
Boston Scott
Will Clapp

Eric McCoy
C.J Gardner Johnson
Saquan Hampton
Alize Mack
Kaden Ellis

Cesar Ruiz
Zack Baun
Adam Trautman
Tommy Stevens

Payton Turner
Pete Werner
Paulson Adebo
Ian Book
Landon Young
Kawaan Baker

Chris Olave
Trevor Penning
Alonte Taylor
D'Marco Jackson
Jordan Jackson

bryan Bresee
Isaiah Foskey
Kendre Miller
Nick Saldiveri
Jake Haener
Jordan Howden
A.T Perry

That is very likely in the 5 worst drafting teams since

You can't be at the cap limit and not having the cap space to be very aggressive and drafting this badly

iceshack149 · 10-18-2024, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding.

Trading some of these guys right now might be beneficial.

leilung · 10-18-2024, 08:33 PM

What happens if we bottom out this season? Do you think DA gets a Mulligan?

mjf150 · 10-18-2024, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

Vrabel could be a good choice. The Titans seem lost without him!

Excellent choice!

SmashMouth · 10-19-2024, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by lee909

While that makes sense for a front office, how many coaches are going to survive 2 or 3 bad years before they start to see the hopefully improved years. You are likely on the hot seat before the light is visable at the end of the tunnel

I'm not saying we'd go to 1-16, although that's basically what Houston did. Even with bad talent, a proper coach can keep a team from being with the bottom dwellers. And as posted earlier, better drafting and keep UDFA gets us in better shape more quickly than most realize.

10-18-2024, 03:26 PM	#31
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,257 Blog Entries: 1	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by stickman I like Flores too. I think Miami ran him off a little early. I think Flores ran himself off in Miami. bobdog86 likes this.

10-18-2024, 04:19 PM	#32
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,134	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by lee909 Nobody up and coming or a big name like Bellicheck will touch the job. $81ml over the cap and look at the highest earners and dead money vs cap savings With 6 picks next year Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4 Round 6 Round 6 Way over the cap with a injury probe, over paid roster than you likely have to stick with and few picks to change things up. If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding. Danno, SmashMouth and stickman like this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,134

10-18-2024, 04:27 PM	#33
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by BakoSaint If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding. I never bought in to that "we're gonna need 3 or 4 years to rebuild" With free-agency, the draft and undrafted free-agents, a team can be rebuilt in one season. From my view shoring up the trenches solves 80% of our problems roster wise. Thats the roux we need for that excellent pot of gumbo. Throw in some spicy free-agents and a skill stud or two and we're back on top, roster wise. SmashMouth likes this.

10-18-2024, 04:36 PM	#34
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Not so sure... think about it. Endure the pain for a year or two with cap cleansing attrition, the benefit of which is high draft picks for at least a couple of years. If you can continue to find gems in UDFA, it can be done. Saints need a HC the players will respect and listen to. The johny-come-latelys are mostly unproven. Might get lucky, might not. I remember SP conveying a story about Parcells and staying too long with a certain franchise. The win now culture has shown us the demise of longer tenured coaches with one team, Tomlin notwithstanding. It's the old argument: Is it the coach or the HOF QB? Probably a little of both. Andy Reid says hello in KC after all these years in Philly. I say let's get our own Andy Reid in bringing BB here. The man just knows and understands football. And he wants to continue coaching. He loves it. While that makes sense for a front office, how many coaches are going to survive 2 or 3 bad years before they start to see the hopefully improved years. You are likely on the hot seat before the light is visable at the end of the tunnel

10-18-2024, 04:41 PM	#35
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,134	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by Danno I never bought in to that "we're gonna need 3 or 4 years to rebuild" With free-agency, the draft and undrafted free-agents, a team can be rebuilt in one season. From my view shoring up the trenches solves 80% of our problems roster wise. Thats the roux we need for that excellent pot of gumbo. Throw in some spicy free-agents and a skill stud or two and we're back on top, roster wise. We can get back to competing quickly. But, it will take until 2026-2027 to full heal our salary cap if we go all in to rebuild, longer if we go slower. 2025 we will have to do restructures to afford the cap hits the to get rid of the dead weight. Much of that will hit as dead cap in 2025 but big hits from the two designated post-june-1 cuts, i would propose Carr and Ram, will hit in 2026. But then again our 2026 cap situation will look no worse, it will just be dead cap hits for Carr and Ram instead of their massive salaries, so it will be a minor issue. Then in 2027 we could have a fairly clean cap. We could contend in 2025 and 2026 with the right draft picks and maybe a few value free agents. But sometimes a team that is almost all the way there needs big cap money to bring in the next Tom Brady, Jalen Ramsey, or Trent Williams to become the top dog. We certainly wont have the money to do that until 2026 or later, ideally 2027 or later. I think the smart more is to cut the dead weight and aging injured players, try to build a young core, cleanup our cap, and try to find a young QB who clearly has what it takes. Then when that QB is in his window to win and we clearly need a little more boost, then spend the money to get a big free agent and take a shot. Don't spend the big money just to try to get the wildcard, get the wildcard through the draft, hopefully the division through the draft, and then spend for the ring.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,134

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10-18-2024, 05:32 PM	#36
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? You need to be really strict and accept it will be a up and down ride for a couple of years. But if fans see the bright side they will stick with younger players more than highly paid vets. No signing players with injury flags, no signing vets on long/high paid contracts. You want players under 28 who have 3-5 years left minimum at a high level so they can lead and grown with young players. Sell that to the best UDFA and players needing to make the step up from back ups to starters in free agency. But most of all you need a front office that is scouting better and using a data department to find players that are underused,that will play beyond their pay. Data is being used in soccer now at quite a few clubs(Red Bull group,Liverpool,Brighton,probably doesn't interest many on here) once football started taking notes from Billy Beane and money ball ideas in baseball and its been a massive success at all them clubs. When you get a coach,data team and good scouting it leads to big improvements. The Scouting department needs ripped up, who knows if its scouts not having a eye for talent or Ireland/Loomis,Allen ignoring them. But since that 2017 draft that should have set this team up for a decade this is the drafts Marcus Davenport Tre'quan Smith Rick Leonard Natrell Jamerson Kamrin Moore Boston Scott Will Clapp Eric McCoy C.J Gardner Johnson Saquan Hampton Alize Mack Kaden Ellis Cesar Ruiz Zack Baun Adam Trautman Tommy Stevens Payton Turner Pete Werner Paulson Adebo Ian Book Landon Young Kawaan Baker Chris Olave Trevor Penning Alonte Taylor D'Marco Jackson Jordan Jackson bryan Bresee Isaiah Foskey Kendre Miller Nick Saldiveri Jake Haener Jordan Howden A.T Perry That is very likely in the 5 worst drafting teams since You can't be at the cap limit and not having the cap space to be very aggressive and drafting this badly papz, SmashMouth, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.
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10-18-2024, 06:43 PM	#37
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,257 Blog Entries: 1	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by BakoSaint If we go all in on the rebuild its not as bad as it looks. We get two post-june-1 cuts which we can use on Carr and Ram. Those save $48 million. Then we cut Kamara and Lattimore as a regular cuts for another $30 million. That basically gets us under the cap. We will need to restructure some players like McCoy, Granderson, Ruiz, etc to get under the cap temporarily while the post-June-1 moves wait to take effect on the cap. Then after those post June 1 moves take effect, we can free up space to sign draft picks. We can rebuild this offseason if we go all in on rebuilding. Trading some of these guys right now might be beneficial. SmashMouth and Rugby Saint II like this.

10-18-2024, 08:33 PM	#38
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,368	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? What happens if we bottom out this season? Do you think DA gets a Mulligan?

10-18-2024, 08:56 PM	#39
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 747	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by neugey Vrabel could be a good choice. The Titans seem lost without him! Excellent choice!
mjf150 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 747

10-19-2024, 08:53 AM	#40
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,123 Blog Entries: 29	Re: So... who you got as next Saints HC ? Originally Posted by lee909 While that makes sense for a front office, how many coaches are going to survive 2 or 3 bad years before they start to see the hopefully improved years. You are likely on the hot seat before the light is visable at the end of the tunnel I'm not saying we'd go to 1-16, although that's basically what Houston did. Even with bad talent, a proper coach can keep a team from being with the bottom dwellers. And as posted earlier, better drafting and keep UDFA gets us in better shape more quickly than most realize.