Why pick a qb?

spkb25 · 01-15-2006, 12:03 PM

well cherm it also takes a good o line along with that great d. then you are as they say in buisness

jergensl · 01-15-2006, 03:39 PM

So what you are saying is it only takes an average QB and a great defense to win the superbowl? That's exactly what I have been saying all along.

and i agree with that, but doesn't a great d with a great qb do much better?

TheDeuce · 01-15-2006, 05:39 PM

Woa.. hold it right there...
Kyle Boller is a good QB???
Joey Harrington is a good QB???
Michael Vick is a good QB??? He is exciting to watch, and dangerous when he runs, but good QB???
Byron Leftwich?? I don't know if I would call him "good".. tough, sure... but "good"?? I don't know
Rex Grossman?? The guy has started 2 games in the NFL and he's good???
Culpepper is good??? Guess lofting balls to Randy Moss makes anyone good.

Last time I checked Kyle Boller is still a starting QB in the league. I still think Joey Harrington could become a good QB if a team put him in the right situation. Michael Vick is a good QB. He's a Pro-Bowler isn't he? YOu want to say he's not a good QB, by arguing that he isn't really even a QB? That's such a dumb argument that I don't even know what to say to it. He's never played any other position, so what do you want him to be? He's a quarterback tard, just accept it. And a little bit of success? I would say getting to the NFC championship successful, not to mention he's also made the playoffs in other years. Byron Leftwich isn't good? HAHAHAHAHA. Get a clue T-R. This guy is a top tier quarterback in this league. I guess being 9th in the league in passing efficiency isn't good? Yeah, that's really crappy. So you're wrong again. Rex Grossman is a good QB, he just has some injury problems. That's why he comes back from injury and immediately is handed the reigns of his team. Culpepper has been one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL the last few years. He had a bad year because his entire game plan changed. If it's sooooo easy to just throw it up to Randy Moss and make yourself successful, then why couldn't Collins do it? Oh yeah that's right, it takes a little more skill than that. So, guess what, you're wrong again. Culpepper had to make good throws, and he made them to all of his receivers, not just to Moss. Look what he did to us. That's at least 3 quarterbacks that you were wrong about. And you're going to try and weasel your way out of saying that Eli is good because "he doesn't have enough experience." Well he has 2 full years in the NFL and this year led his team to the playoffs, I would consider that successful.

TheDeuce · 01-15-2006, 05:45 PM

And how about you look up the percentage of quarterbacks drafted after the first round that become successful. I would bet you 100 bucks that the percentage of QBs drafted after the first round that are successful is DRASTICALLY lower than the number of successful quarterbacks drafted in the first round.

I did exaggerate on the success rate of first round QBs, I'll give you that one T-R. However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that, out of all the QBs drafted in later rounds, only a few become successful, while QBs drafted in the first round have a higher success rate. The only reason people think that later round QBs have a good chance of becoming successful is because you hear about all of the success stories, but you never hear about the hundreds of guys who get drafted later in the draft and become permanent backups or drop out after a year or two. Would you agree?

pakowitz · 01-15-2006, 05:46 PM

Michael Vick is a good QB. He's a Pro-Bowler isn't he? YOu want to say he's not a good QB, by arguing that he isn't really even a QB? That's such a dumb argument that I don't even know what to say to it. He's never played any other position, so what do you want him to be? He's a quarterback tard, just accept it. And a little bit of success? I would say getting to the NFC championship successful, not to mention he's also made the playoffs in other years.

you have said the exact same things about VY.... so whats ur answer for that....

TheDeuce · 01-15-2006, 05:48 PM

VY is no Michael Vick that's for sure. Probably the same arm strength, but Vick could burn VY any day of the week

TheDeuce · 01-15-2006, 05:51 PM

And actually Pak that's one of the reasons why I don't want VY is because he's not as fast, not nearly as elusive as Vick, and doesn't have the suddenness that Vick has that allows him to beat defenders to the corner like no other player in the NFL can. But hey pak, don't take my word for it, listen to an NFL scout:

"Young is a great competitor, that's the thing you have to like about him. But be careful about his athleticism. It's a great attribute but he doesn't have Michael Vick's suddenness. He's got real good speed, but it's not world-class speed, and you see what eventually happens to the guys in this league -- they get beat up and they slow down. He is strong for a fairly lean guy. And you have to like his size. But if you do the film cut-ups on just his throws from last night's game, you're going to be fairly unimpressed."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...ris&id=2281337

pakowitz · 01-15-2006, 05:53 PM

he is also a much better passer then MV at this stage of his career.....

TheDeuce · 01-15-2006, 06:04 PM

I will give you that... but the reason why MV is so successful is because of his speed. Would you agree with that? And if that's the kind of player VY is (especially in that option offense that he played in at UT), then he's going to have some trouble. VY is a very good player Pak, anybody who says otherwise doesn't have any sense. But I would still take Leinart because I believe pocket passers have a better chance of success in this league. That's my opinion. You might have a different one, and I respect that. I just don't believe that VY will be able to run in the pros like he did in college.

pakowitz · 01-15-2006, 06:14 PM

But I would still take Leinart because I believe pocket passers have a better chance of success in this league

see... i think that statement is true... pocket passers have had more success in the league... but mostly b/c there have been more pocket passers then scramblers....most qbs in the league are white.. n they dont have the great scrambling ability of a black qb... some do... but not to the ability of a vick or a VY

01-15-2006, 12:03 PM	#61
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	RE: qb can be found in later rounds well cherm it also takes a good o line along with that great d. then you are as they say in buisness

01-15-2006, 03:39 PM	#62
jergensl 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belleview, FL Posts: 526	RE: qb can be found in later rounds So what you are saying is it only takes an average QB and a great defense to win the superbowl? That's exactly what I have been saying all along. and i agree with that, but doesn't a great d with a great qb do much better?

01-15-2006, 05:39 PM	#63
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: qb can be found in later rounds Woa.. hold it right there... Kyle Boller is a good QB??? Joey Harrington is a good QB??? Michael Vick is a good QB??? He is exciting to watch, and dangerous when he runs, but good QB??? Byron Leftwich?? I don't know if I would call him "good".. tough, sure... but "good"?? I don't know Rex Grossman?? The guy has started 2 games in the NFL and he's good??? Culpepper is good??? Guess lofting balls to Randy Moss makes anyone good. Last time I checked Kyle Boller is still a starting QB in the league. I still think Joey Harrington could become a good QB if a team put him in the right situation. Michael Vick is a good QB. He's a Pro-Bowler isn't he? YOu want to say he's not a good QB, by arguing that he isn't really even a QB? That's such a dumb argument that I don't even know what to say to it. He's never played any other position, so what do you want him to be? He's a quarterback tard, just accept it. And a little bit of success? I would say getting to the NFC championship successful, not to mention he's also made the playoffs in other years. Byron Leftwich isn't good? HAHAHAHAHA. Get a clue T-R. This guy is a top tier quarterback in this league. I guess being 9th in the league in passing efficiency isn't good? Yeah, that's really crappy. So you're wrong again. Rex Grossman is a good QB, he just has some injury problems. That's why he comes back from injury and immediately is handed the reigns of his team. Culpepper has been one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL the last few years. He had a bad year because his entire game plan changed. If it's sooooo easy to just throw it up to Randy Moss and make yourself successful, then why couldn't Collins do it? Oh yeah that's right, it takes a little more skill than that. So, guess what, you're wrong again. Culpepper had to make good throws, and he made them to all of his receivers, not just to Moss. Look what he did to us. That's at least 3 quarterbacks that you were wrong about. And you're going to try and weasel your way out of saying that Eli is good because "he doesn't have enough experience." Well he has 2 full years in the NFL and this year led his team to the playoffs, I would consider that successful.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-15-2006, 05:45 PM	#64
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: qb can be found in later rounds And how about you look up the percentage of quarterbacks drafted after the first round that become successful. I would bet you 100 bucks that the percentage of QBs drafted after the first round that are successful is DRASTICALLY lower than the number of successful quarterbacks drafted in the first round. I did exaggerate on the success rate of first round QBs, I'll give you that one T-R. However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that, out of all the QBs drafted in later rounds, only a few become successful, while QBs drafted in the first round have a higher success rate. The only reason people think that later round QBs have a good chance of becoming successful is because you hear about all of the success stories, but you never hear about the hundreds of guys who get drafted later in the draft and become permanent backups or drop out after a year or two. Would you agree?
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-15-2006, 05:46 PM	#65
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	RE: qb can be found in later rounds Michael Vick is a good QB. He's a Pro-Bowler isn't he? YOu want to say he's not a good QB, by arguing that he isn't really even a QB? That's such a dumb argument that I don't even know what to say to it. He's never played any other position, so what do you want him to be? He's a quarterback tard, just accept it. And a little bit of success? I would say getting to the NFC championship successful, not to mention he's also made the playoffs in other years. you have said the exact same things about VY.... so whats ur answer for that....

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01-15-2006, 05:48 PM	#66
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: qb can be found in later rounds VY is no Michael Vick that's for sure. Probably the same arm strength, but Vick could burn VY any day of the week
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-15-2006, 05:51 PM	#67
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: qb can be found in later rounds And actually Pak that's one of the reasons why I don't want VY is because he's not as fast, not nearly as elusive as Vick, and doesn't have the suddenness that Vick has that allows him to beat defenders to the corner like no other player in the NFL can. But hey pak, don't take my word for it, listen to an NFL scout: "Young is a great competitor, that's the thing you have to like about him. But be careful about his athleticism. It's a great attribute but he doesn't have Michael Vick's suddenness. He's got real good speed, but it's not world-class speed, and you see what eventually happens to the guys in this league -- they get beat up and they slow down. He is strong for a fairly lean guy. And you have to like his size. But if you do the film cut-ups on just his throws from last night's game, you're going to be fairly unimpressed." http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...ris&id=2281337
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-15-2006, 05:53 PM	#68
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	RE: qb can be found in later rounds he is also a much better passer then MV at this stage of his career.....

01-15-2006, 06:04 PM	#69
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	RE: qb can be found in later rounds I will give you that... but the reason why MV is so successful is because of his speed. Would you agree with that? And if that's the kind of player VY is (especially in that option offense that he played in at UT), then he's going to have some trouble. VY is a very good player Pak, anybody who says otherwise doesn't have any sense. But I would still take Leinart because I believe pocket passers have a better chance of success in this league. That's my opinion. You might have a different one, and I respect that. I just don't believe that VY will be able to run in the pros like he did in college.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-15-2006, 06:14 PM	#70
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	RE: qb can be found in later rounds But I would still take Leinart because I believe pocket passers have a better chance of success in this league see... i think that statement is true... pocket passers have had more success in the league... but mostly b/c there have been more pocket passers then scramblers....most qbs in the league are white.. n they dont have the great scrambling ability of a black qb... some do... but not to the ability of a vick or a VY