Good Idea?

FanNJ · 02-22-2006, 01:38 PM

I'd take a franchise QB and Leinart will not be it. This team does not need a Rickey Williams deal to do the job, but two or three additional high picks in this years draft would do the job. Remember Unless there are comensatory picks, awarded there is no pick until round 4 after the first 2. So this team will end up with one impact player in the second round and a possible one in Fourth or Fifth. The scenerio that some are dreaming of with the first round pick will ride the pine in year one more than likely.

I would rather see winning team than than a QB that will be pranced around like he's the second comming and will more likely see playing time at the local bar scene with the ladies than on the field. Hense his reason to stay another year at college and take classes in Ball room dancing.

Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ???

TheDeuce · 02-22-2006, 02:01 PM

What about the Steelers? Didn't he come in and start his first year too? hmmmm....

FanNJ · 02-22-2006, 02:26 PM

My Point was that there are Super bowl winners without the franchise QB that all had one thing in common, ecept maybe the Rams, and I do belive there D ranked high the year they won, DEFENSE. The steelers have something great going on. A dominating Ground Game, A Dominating Defence, Good Special Teams and a smart mobile quarterback who has the arm strenghth to make the throws.

The Saints last I looked have none of the above.

gandhi1007 · 02-22-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by FanNJ

Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ???

Please, don't even go there. Brad Johnson is a hell of a lot better QB than he is given credit for. Look what he did for the Vikings last year. Besides, would you rather keep Aaron Brooks, a.k.a.-"Fumbles the Clown" as your QB when you have a shot at a guy like Leinart. If that's the case, this team is destined to be a mediocre team as usual. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being mediocre. We had some of the best defenses of the '80's, but no franchise QB to lead us to the promised land. How far did that get us? 0 playoff wins. 0 Super Bowls. 1 division title.

FatiusJeebs · 02-22-2006, 02:41 PM

Keep preachin brother FanNJ.... sing the good praises of common sense team building. I have posted on too many other threads that.....we need to screw Lienart and stack up our D!!!!

gandhi1007 · 02-22-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by FanNJ

Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ???

Please, don't even go there. Brad Johnson is a hell of a lot better QB than he is given credit for. Look what he did for the Vikings last year. Besides, would you rather keep Aaron Brooks, a.k.a.-"Fumbles the Clown" as your QB when you have a shot at a guy like Leinart. If that's the case, this team is destined to be a mediocre team as usual. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being mediocre. We had some of the best defenses of the late '80's & early '90's, but no franchise QB to lead us to the promised land. How far did that get us? 0 playoff wins. 0 Super Bowls. 1 division title.

FatiusJeebs · 02-22-2006, 02:49 PM

Let me see..... I'm not saying that this is the be all end all formula but.....many times over we see that it works. The '72 and '73 Dolphins, late '70's Raiders, '85 Bears, '91 and '92 Saints I could go on and on all the way until the 2005 Bears and Steelers. A good, fast defense will get you the W's. Plenty of them. Our offense may need some work but as it stands....If we totally beef up our Defense....we could easily contend. unless we have the same scenario the Redskins of a few years ago had when they unloaded tons of money on the "ultimate defense" was their offense that horrible? Besides that team.......a GOOD DEFENSE will WIN GAMES. Please don't forget 4 out of the 5 class of '83 QB's. All of them gods among QB lore and no Super Bowls becuz....NO DEFENSE!

TheDeuce · 02-22-2006, 02:58 PM

But how many of those teams that won SBs had incompetent QBs? You can't just totally ignore a quarterback situation in order to focus on defense. Look at this year's Bears. They were being compared to the Monsters of the Midway. But what happened in the playoffs? They had no offense and they're defense couldn't win the games for them. I've said this a billion times, a team needs BALANCE. Our defense was ranked in the upper half of the league last season. Our offense was fifth worst in the NFL. Hmmmm. Which would you address? Especially when using just one draft pick could give us a jump from fifth worse to top quarter. I wouldn't go defense because OUR OFFENSE NEEDS MORE HELP. A few players on D (namely one or two LBs, and a DT) will make this defense one of the best in the NFL. We can address those in FA, in the 2nd round, and later in the draft.

FatiusJeebs · 02-22-2006, 03:04 PM

Ok...I agree...but the deal here is.....we don't need Lienart to be successful. But its cool....I mentioned those teams for a reason....Griese was no QB hero...average passer......nothing special. McMahaon was nobody special either. We had Hebert....I think we could have done a hell of a lot better if we didn't have Carl Smith (OC at the time for those who forgot) and his ultra super-duper, mega CONSERVATIVE offensive scheme.
Oh I forgot the Bucs. DILFER?!?! C'mon....defense won that SuperBowl. The real questions here are...
1. Is AB competent enough to win a SB with a kick ass defense? Well as much as I like the guy as long as the ball keeps "falling" out of his hands....no.
2. Do we need Lienart if the Saints stack up on Defense? Definitely not. I heard Josh McCown is an FA....hell he could probably get the job done if we had an awesome defense.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-22-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by FanNJ

My Point was that there are Super bowl winners without the franchise QB that all had one thing in common, except maybe the Rams, and I do belive there D ranked high the year they won, DEFENSE.

See my signature. And of course the Steelers (and the Seahawks BTW if they had won) have done nothing to change it. The Rams were 4th in scoring defense the year they won it.

The steelers have something great going on. A dominating Ground Game, A Dominating Defence, Good Special Teams and a smart mobile quarterback who has the arm strenghth to make the throws.

The Saints last I looked have none of the above.

It's certainly a pickle for the Saints. If they don't pick Leinart then no matter what happens (short of winning a SB or NFC championship in the next three years) the organization will be second guessed about the decision not to pick Leinart.

The flip side is that those other needs do need to be filled. And it has been shown on several occasions that a team that uses a QB as a game manager with excellent defense, special teams, and running game can do very well.

The Saints defense last year was not that terrible. The offense unfortunately did nothing to keep them from being exposed.

I've been waffling as to the best thing to do. I just don't get the feeling that Leinart is that once in a generation QB that you must pick. Does anyone really see Leinart in the same class as Elway, Marino, Farve, Montana, Steve Young, or Peyton Manning? If you feel that he his, then take him, and use free agency and other draft picks to complement him over the next two years.

But I feel like much of the issue surrounding Leinart is the anti-AB backlash. If Leinart can't live up to the hype, then the Saints would be much better served by trading down and filling defensive and line holes. Pick Ferguson and plug the guy into a WIllie Roaf role for the next decade for example. Or do as Colin Cowart spoke on ESPN radio today and pick AJ Hawk who in his estimation makes every tackle.

Where do you feel Leinart is in terms of development as compared to the great QBs of the last 25 years? Can he get to that level of greatness?

SFIAH

02-22-2006, 01:38 PM	#31
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	I'd take a franchise QB and Leinart will not be it. This team does not need a Rickey Williams deal to do the job, but two or three additional high picks in this years draft would do the job. Remember Unless there are comensatory picks, awarded there is no pick until round 4 after the first 2. So this team will end up with one impact player in the second round and a possible one in Fourth or Fifth. The scenerio that some are dreaming of with the first round pick will ride the pine in year one more than likely. I would rather see winning team than than a QB that will be pranced around like he's the second comming and will more likely see playing time at the local bar scene with the ladies than on the field. Hense his reason to stay another year at college and take classes in Ball room dancing. Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ???
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

02-22-2006, 02:01 PM	#32
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	What about the Steelers? Didn't he come in and start his first year too? hmmmm....
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-22-2006, 02:26 PM	#33
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	My Point was that there are Super bowl winners without the franchise QB that all had one thing in common, ecept maybe the Rams, and I do belive there D ranked high the year they won, DEFENSE. The steelers have something great going on. A dominating Ground Game, A Dominating Defence, Good Special Teams and a smart mobile quarterback who has the arm strenghth to make the throws. The Saints last I looked have none of the above.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

02-22-2006, 02:33 PM	#34
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by FanNJ Oh ya, I can't remember the name of that franchise QB that the Bucks fielded when they won. ??? Please, don't even go there. Brad Johnson is a hell of a lot better QB than he is given credit for. Look what he did for the Vikings last year. Besides, would you rather keep Aaron Brooks, a.k.a.-"Fumbles the Clown" as your QB when you have a shot at a guy like Leinart. If that's the case, this team is destined to be a mediocre team as usual. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being mediocre. We had some of the best defenses of the '80's, but no franchise QB to lead us to the promised land. How far did that get us? 0 playoff wins. 0 Super Bowls. 1 division title.
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02-22-2006, 02:41 PM	#35
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Keep preachin brother FanNJ.... sing the good praises of common sense team building. I have posted on too many other threads that.....we need to screw Lienart and stack up our D!!!!
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

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02-22-2006, 02:49 PM	#37
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Let me see..... I'm not saying that this is the be all end all formula but.....many times over we see that it works. The '72 and '73 Dolphins, late '70's Raiders, '85 Bears, '91 and '92 Saints I could go on and on all the way until the 2005 Bears and Steelers. A good, fast defense will get you the W's. Plenty of them. Our offense may need some work but as it stands....If we totally beef up our Defense....we could easily contend. unless we have the same scenario the Redskins of a few years ago had when they unloaded tons of money on the "ultimate defense" was their offense that horrible? Besides that team.......a GOOD DEFENSE will WIN GAMES. Please don't forget 4 out of the 5 class of '83 QB's. All of them gods among QB lore and no Super Bowls becuz....NO DEFENSE!
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

02-22-2006, 02:58 PM	#38
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	But how many of those teams that won SBs had incompetent QBs? You can't just totally ignore a quarterback situation in order to focus on defense. Look at this year's Bears. They were being compared to the Monsters of the Midway. But what happened in the playoffs? They had no offense and they're defense couldn't win the games for them. I've said this a billion times, a team needs BALANCE. Our defense was ranked in the upper half of the league last season. Our offense was fifth worst in the NFL. Hmmmm. Which would you address? Especially when using just one draft pick could give us a jump from fifth worse to top quarter. I wouldn't go defense because OUR OFFENSE NEEDS MORE HELP. A few players on D (namely one or two LBs, and a DT) will make this defense one of the best in the NFL. We can address those in FA, in the 2nd round, and later in the draft.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-22-2006, 03:04 PM	#39
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Ok...I agree...but the deal here is.....we don't need Lienart to be successful. But its cool....I mentioned those teams for a reason....Griese was no QB hero...average passer......nothing special. McMahaon was nobody special either. We had Hebert....I think we could have done a hell of a lot better if we didn't have Carl Smith (OC at the time for those who forgot) and his ultra super-duper, mega CONSERVATIVE offensive scheme. Oh I forgot the Bucs. DILFER?!?! C'mon....defense won that SuperBowl. The real questions here are... 1. Is AB competent enough to win a SB with a kick ass defense? Well as much as I like the guy as long as the ball keeps "falling" out of his hands....no. 2. Do we need Lienart if the Saints stack up on Defense? Definitely not. I heard Josh McCown is an FA....hell he could probably get the job done if we had an awesome defense.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	BINGO!!

02-22-2006, 03:18 PM	#40
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Originally Posted by FanNJ My Point was that there are Super bowl winners without the franchise QB that all had one thing in common, except maybe the Rams, and I do belive there D ranked high the year they won, DEFENSE. See my signature. And of course the Steelers (and the Seahawks BTW if they had won) have done nothing to change it. The Rams were 4th in scoring defense the year they won it. The steelers have something great going on. A dominating Ground Game, A Dominating Defence, Good Special Teams and a smart mobile quarterback who has the arm strenghth to make the throws. The Saints last I looked have none of the above. It's certainly a pickle for the Saints. If they don't pick Leinart then no matter what happens (short of winning a SB or NFC championship in the next three years) the organization will be second guessed about the decision not to pick Leinart. The flip side is that those other needs do need to be filled. And it has been shown on several occasions that a team that uses a QB as a game manager with excellent defense, special teams, and running game can do very well. The Saints defense last year was not that terrible. The offense unfortunately did nothing to keep them from being exposed. I've been waffling as to the best thing to do. I just don't get the feeling that Leinart is that once in a generation QB that you must pick. Does anyone really see Leinart in the same class as Elway, Marino, Farve, Montana, Steve Young, or Peyton Manning? If you feel that he his, then take him, and use free agency and other draft picks to complement him over the next two years. But I feel like much of the issue surrounding Leinart is the anti-AB backlash. If Leinart can't live up to the hype, then the Saints would be much better served by trading down and filling defensive and line holes. Pick Ferguson and plug the guy into a WIllie Roaf role for the next decade for example. Or do as Colin Cowart spoke on ESPN radio today and pick AJ Hawk who in his estimation makes every tackle. Where do you feel Leinart is in terms of development as compared to the great QBs of the last 25 years? Can he get to that level of greatness? SFIAH
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