FatiusJeebs

SFIAH.....that was enlightening. LOL. Seriously though....I agree with you. This is a pickle the Saints are in. I feel the same however...fill needs screw the whole glorified QB nonsense.

SaintFanInATLHELL

That's not exactly my feeling. I'm just trying to get a sense where Leinart would fit in the QB pantheon of the last 25 years. If he really can be upper echelon like McNabb, Manning, Farve, McNairs or the Elways, Marinos, or Youngs of the past, then you take the pick and fill the rest in elsewhere. Everyone knew that Elway was going to be special when he was at Stanford. Does everyone feel the same way about Leinart?

SFIAH

TheDeuce

Good posts SFIAH. Obviously a good defense is very important to winning a championship, I completely agree with you on that point. Here's my argument:
Case 1:

The Saints can trade out of the #2 pick and get one or maybe 2 more picks. They can draft Hawk and then some other people for the defense. This would obviously help the defense, but there are things to remember. Just because quarterbacks are more highly criticized and followed more, their failures are more commonly documented in the media. However, defensive players can be just as big of busts as quarterbacks. But let's just say that we trade down, get two or three more picks, and all three guys contribute right away. We will still have a huge QB problem. AB is most likely going to be gone. That leaves us with Bouman and AMac, neither of whom are good enough or ready to play in the NFL. As a result, we will most likely have to try and take our luck at getting a "fill-in" QB in FA. The guys who have been brought up have been Volek, Kitna, Ramsey, Collins, and some others. None of these guys are game changers. They might be more accurate than AB and give up less turnovers, but their production numbers per game just aren't what AB was putting up the last five years (You have to give Brooks credit that even though he sucks goat testicles that he always had big numbers). These guys, IMHO, just will never live up to the talent and promise that Leinart has. But anyways, this scenario would allow for the addition of 3 players on defense, and a guy (most likely who's been a backup or bottom tier starter in the NFL the last few seasons) to be our new starting quarterback. What would this do for our offensive and defensive production? Our defense might move up from 14th to top 10. Our offense, however, just won't be that improved (and remember, we're fifth worst in the NFL). So we might have improved our defense a couple of slots, but if our offense still doesn't have a guy behind center who can score some points, we're still going to lose.

Case 2
We draft Leinart. Immediately we have a guy, who many experts believe, can come in and be the best quarterback on this team. His potential is very high, and he's one of the most accurate quarterbacks in college football history. Immediately we've fixed the biggest (and perhaps only) glaring hole on our offense. After this, we can use the #34 pick on an impact LB such as Thomas Howard, Abdul Hodge, Bobby Carpenter (maybe), or D'Qwell Jackson. Immediately we have filled our biggest holes on defense (a good LB). After that we can use the rest of our picks to address other needs such as another LB, a DT, maybe another CB, or even an OL. But we also have to remember that we have Free Agency to try and build up the positions that we don't feel were addressed in the draft. Guys like Will Witherspoon, Akin Ayodele, Derek Smith, Rocky Bernard, and many others will be available. So basically, this scenario allows us to fill our most immediate offensive hole, something that should allow us to make a huge jump in the offensive rankings. Also, we will be able to address some of the holes on our defensive side.

Case 1- Address many defensive holes, ignore QB situation. Basically we get a lot of picks, but they're not as high quality.
Case 2- Address biggest offensive hole, and many (but not all) defensive problems. Have fewer picks, but a higher quality of players selected.

In my opinion, and this is just what I think, we need to take Leinart #2. He's the highest graded QB since Peyton Manning, and I don't think anybody would pass up on him. We can still address LB with the #34 pick. We can address the DT, other LB, and other holes later in the draft and in free agency. Many people make it seem like if we take Leinart that we won't be able to do anything else. That's just erroneous. We still have the opportunity to fill all the other holes, it just might be through FA and the later rounds.

FanNJ

Fact of the matter is our late round picks have not been that stellar. Haslett actually may have left this team with some young talent out of the last two drafts, However that impact line backer and great linemen are usually found in the early picks. That being I'll be honest. Yes. In a new system with some control around him absolutly. This team has been out of control for a good two years. Look at the penalties. I would take him any day over Leinart, Sorry but I ain't pinning the offense on him. Players make errors and no he isn't the brightest QB, but will he out perform Leinart, I am confident he would anyday. Question I ask is does he garner the respect of his offense and teamates, and I do think he does. So that tells me that there is plenty of blame to go around. IS he worth 6 Mil. HELL NO. But he is still wearing the colors.

Deuce,
I fully agree that the team needs balance and I think we are 2 LB's one Corner and a DT away on Defense of cracking the top 10. I think the defense while improved enjoyed short field position that the offensive mistakes put them in., and therefore those numbers are inflated. Teams still scored at will at least once a game. Unfortunatly that is all it took this yaer.

On offense we need a tight end or a reciever. And another running back, And some help on that O-Line. With that the ball moves from the Qb's hands to the back. Where I disagree is on QB and only time will tell. I would much rather see Cutler who reminds me of Marino only with mobility drafted, than Leinart who I fear has peaked.

To be honest either will be sitting idle behind the starter waiting there turn.

mjf150

This is from another post I made, but it applies here:
Not counting this year, does anyone know how many times that this team has had a top 2 overall pick in the Draft? Answer - Twice. That's amazing considering all of the countless years of futility that we as fans have suffered through. Absolutely amazing. The only two times that we were fortunate enough to receive a top two pick after suffering through another excruciating season was in '71 when we selected Archie Manning with the second overall pick and in '81 when we tapped George Rogers with our one and only first overall pick. In fact, the team has only drafted within the top five a total of just 5 times in almost 40 years. Unbelievable. All of that suffering year after year, after year, with so little pay-off. So, all of this talk about trading down to recieve more picks is nonsense. We owe it to ourselves and all of the fans that have came and went over these past four miserable decades to take advantage of what we have earned and select a quality player with a long overdue quality pick.

FanNJ

What we have earned is multiple quality players if the deal is offered. If it is not so be it. You don't give up the second slot for free, but if the offers on the table then you take it. Remember one important thing here Loomis is going to be making these picks with input from Payton. Four Qaulity Players for one over Hyped player ain't worth it.

mjf150

How can anyone beat the deal that we gave Washington? How many "quality picks" did we give up? We gave them everything for Ricky Williams. You would have bet for absolute sure that they would have been able to do so much with all of that, right? Well, how did they do? It took them until this year to become competitive.

TheDeuce

So you're just assuming that if we trade down we'll automatically get four good players and not take one busted "over hyped" player. That's just absurd. Here, watch, I can do it too.... Four no-talent ass clowns for the next coming of Dan Marino aint worth it.

I obviously wouldn't say that about Leinart, but that's what you're saying about these four "quality" players. First of all, how do you know we'd get four picks by trading down? I could see us getting two or three. Also:

Great post mjf. Just because you get MORE players doesn't mean you're getting BETTER players. This game is all about QUALITY, not QUANTITY. That's why we need to take Leinart and not four worse-rated players. That's why we need to take Leinart and not draft Jacobs, sign Kitna, and keep AMac and Bouman.

FanNJ

This game is all about QUALITY, not QUANTITY
[/quote]Absolutly and Four early Picks in the first three rounds. I'd take that over Leinart. AJ Hawk at 2 thats a little early, but if he can turn a defense around like a Ray Lewis, or a Urlacher I'd take em at 2. Last year I can remember ranting all over this board for a linebacker early, funny how a year changes things.

Forget Jacobs I'll agree with Ya there and Forget Kitna. Charlie Whithurst or Cutler big upside and Cutler can be the second coming of Marino in the right system.

I'm not going to take the time right now to look it up but where they not Horrid and lacking complete Talent back then? It's a mute point when some are so hell bent on Leinart.

Agree to disagree

gandhi1007

Nice post Deuce. I couldn't have said it better myself.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg

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