Good Idea?

gandhi1007 · 02-19-2006, 11:06 AM

It's almost impossible to fathom. Here's a franchise QB sitting pretty at #2 for us, when any other year, the guy's gone at #1. And guys want to pass on him for an offensive lineman? Or a LB, when this is one of the deepest drafts at the LB position in years? Not drafting Leinart at #2 would prove to everyone in the world that this franchise is o.k. with being mediocre. Hell, we might as well chip in for the U-hauls to L.A. if we draft an O-lineman. I don't care how good D'Brickashaw Ferguson is. Nobody goes to games to watch a lineman block!!!

Tobias-Reiper · 02-19-2006, 11:19 AM

... every year during this time we always hear the "who'll want to play/coach here?" argument.

Look, there aren't that many NFL coaching positions available, and players don't want to sit out a year without getting paid or being out of the league, knowing that they could have a very hard time coming back into the league. Money is money and playing time is playing time whether you are in S.F., New England, or Miami... they may not be able to win championships, but sure as hell they can build up their resume in N.O.

.. and I know many would come back and say " but you couldn't get quality free agents..."
..well, what's a "quality free agent"? It's very easy to come up with a name, you know, like Law, or Lewis, or whathaveyou, but when has one big name player F.A. make a loser into a winner?

... to me, a quality free agent is someone who's going to work within the system, whatever his last name is...

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-19-2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

It's almost impossible to fathom. Here's a franchise QB sitting pretty at #2 for us, when any other year, the guy's gone at #1. And guys want to pass on him for an offensive lineman? Or a LB, when this is one of the deepest drafts at the LB position in years? Not drafting Leinart at #2 would prove to everyone in the world that this franchise is o.k. with being mediocre. Hell, we might as well chip in for the U-hauls to L.A. if we draft an O-lineman. I don't care how good D'Brickashaw Ferguson is. Nobody goes to games to watch a lineman block!!!

You make a good point. However, if that lineman isn't there to block, then it doesn't really matter how good that franchise QB is. He will be spending all of his time laying on his back.

David Carr is a perfect example of this. Leaguewide he is considered to be a franchise QB. Picked #1. But he has the NFL record for most sacks in a season and I believe for the 1st 4 years as a QB (202! OUCH!)

They have the #1 pick. And they are going to pick Bush. But while not flashy, I think Carr may be better served by getting someone like Ferguson to help keep him off his back.

But as you say, no one comes to see linemen block. But linemen blocking is a major step towards becoming a successful franchise.

SFIAH

CheramieIII · 02-19-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:
I will keep saying this until someone listens, Leinart will not contribute immediately to the organization which is what needs to happen for the Saints to remain viable in New Orleans.

I'll say this again too and maybe someone will listen...No player in this year's draft will have an effect on the Saints' 2006 record to any real degree to make a difference in whether the team stays in NO or goes elsewhere. No. LB. No OT. No QB. It's just not gonna happen that way. Thus, we might as well get the player that most fits our team's need for a QB in the future since we have that opportunity and hope we can somehow bring in some FA players that CAN make a difference in '06.

I guess I will continue to disagree with the majority. I feel that OL or LB will be able to adapt alot quicker than a QB and that's all I have to say about that.

D_it_up · 02-19-2006, 12:08 PM

i love when people say we should trade down to "build for the future." is taking a franchise qb that is more ready to start on an nfl team than any other prospect in years not building for the future?

Just so you don't get ME confused with those people who think we need to trade down, then maybe I should be a little more specific. I've been an advocate of drafting Matt Leinart since the season began. If you go WAYYY back to after the Green Bay disaster, you'd see a post that I made that hoped we lost out the remainder of the season (which almost happened) and draft Leinart. Anyone who watched this team last year, regardless of Hurricane Katrina, saw that this was a pathetic team. Don't expect the Saints to be 10-6 or 11-5 this coming season and contending for a Super Bowl. I say trade off some of our existing players who just aren't cutting it for more draft picks and build for the future that way. Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB.

CheramieIII · 02-19-2006, 12:16 PM

Just so you don't get ME confused with those people who think we need to trade down, then maybe I should be a little more specific. I've been an advocate of drafting Matt Leinart since the season began. If you go WAYYY back to after the Green Bay disaster, you'd see a post that I made that hoped we lost out the remainder of the season (which almost happened) and draft Leinart. Anyone who watched this team last year, regardless of Hurricane Katrina, saw that this was a pathetic team. Don't expect the Saints to be 10-6 or 11-5 this coming season and contending for a Super Bowl. I say trade off some of our existing players who just aren't cutting it for more draft picks and build for the future that way. Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB.

Hey D, I respect a man that sticks to his guns. I have a different view but damn sure respect your opinion.

D_it_up · 02-19-2006, 12:32 PM

Much appreciated, Cheramie....I respect your opinion as well. It would surprise me but not shock me to see the Saints trade down in the draft and do something similar to the scenario you'd like to see. However, if they do trade down, I'd expect them to try to pick up Furgeson or Hawk with their first pick and possibly a QB with the 2nd, if they were to get 2 first rounders. Most likely Cutler or Brodie Croyle. But, IMHO, I think the Saints would be foolish to pass up Leinart, or even Young (even though I hope they don't draft Young). People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two.

gandhi1007 · 02-19-2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up2

Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB.

TRUE DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!1

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-19-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up2

People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two.

D_it_up2,

I wasn't specifically pointing to the Saints in terms of offensive line play. I was simply pointing out while fans don't necessarily come out to see offensive linemen block, that teams must have effective OLine play to be successful.

Personally I believe that the Saints should pick Leinard for no other reason than it's the can't miss pick of the draft. Even if Leinard never turns out to be a ProBowl, HoF QB in the NFL, there will be little "what if" type second guessing about the pick.

SFIAH

gandhi1007 · 02-19-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by D_it_up2

Much appreciated, Cheramie....I respect your opinion as well. It would surprise me but not shock me to see the Saints trade down in the draft and do something similar to the scenario you'd like to see. However, if they do trade down, I'd expect them to try to pick up Furgeson or Hawk with their first pick and possibly a QB with the 2nd, if they were to get 2 first rounders. Most likely Cutler or Brodie Croyle. But, IMHO, I think the Saints would be foolish to pass up Leinart, or even Young (even though I hope they don't draft Young). People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two.

Nice post D. I've been hearing alot about the O-line lately, when they are not all that bad. Not great, but they have shown signs of improvement. Believe me, there are worse O-lines in the league. They just had bad blocking schemes & a QB that didn't know how to navigate the pocket.

I think Leinart will fare better than Carr also, simply because of his pocket presence. While not a great scrambler he moves well in the pocket allowing his linemen to do their job. It's hard for an O-lineman to block when any time your QB feels pressure, he moves outside (Aaron Brooks). That gives fast NFL DE's an edge.

02-19-2006, 11:06 AM	#11
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	RE: Good Idea? It's almost impossible to fathom. Here's a franchise QB sitting pretty at #2 for us, when any other year, the guy's gone at #1. And guys want to pass on him for an offensive lineman? Or a LB, when this is one of the deepest drafts at the LB position in years? Not drafting Leinart at #2 would prove to everyone in the world that this franchise is o.k. with being mediocre. Hell, we might as well chip in for the U-hauls to L.A. if we draft an O-lineman. I don't care how good D'Brickashaw Ferguson is. Nobody goes to games to watch a lineman block!!!
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

02-19-2006, 11:19 AM	#12
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	... every year during this time we always hear the "who'll want to play/coach here?" argument. Look, there aren't that many NFL coaching positions available, and players don't want to sit out a year without getting paid or being out of the league, knowing that they could have a very hard time coming back into the league. Money is money and playing time is playing time whether you are in S.F., New England, or Miami... they may not be able to win championships, but sure as hell they can build up their resume in N.O. .. and I know many would come back and say " but you couldn't get quality free agents..." ..well, what's a "quality free agent"? It's very easy to come up with a name, you know, like Law, or Lewis, or whathaveyou, but when has one big name player F.A. make a loser into a winner? ... to me, a quality free agent is someone who's going to work within the system, whatever his last name is...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

02-19-2006, 11:51 AM	#13
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: RE: Good Idea? Originally Posted by gandhi1007 It's almost impossible to fathom. Here's a franchise QB sitting pretty at #2 for us, when any other year, the guy's gone at #1. And guys want to pass on him for an offensive lineman? Or a LB, when this is one of the deepest drafts at the LB position in years? Not drafting Leinart at #2 would prove to everyone in the world that this franchise is o.k. with being mediocre. Hell, we might as well chip in for the U-hauls to L.A. if we draft an O-lineman. I don't care how good D'Brickashaw Ferguson is. Nobody goes to games to watch a lineman block!!! You make a good point. However, if that lineman isn't there to block, then it doesn't really matter how good that franchise QB is. He will be spending all of his time laying on his back. David Carr is a perfect example of this. Leaguewide he is considered to be a franchise QB. Picked #1. But he has the NFL record for most sacks in a season and I believe for the 1st 4 years as a QB (202! OUCH!) They have the #1 pick. And they are going to pick Bush. But while not flashy, I think Carr may be better served by getting someone like Ferguson to help keep him off his back. But as you say, no one comes to see linemen block. But linemen blocking is a major step towards becoming a successful franchise. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-19-2006, 12:08 PM	#14
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	RE: Re: RE: Good Idea? Quote: I will keep saying this until someone listens, Leinart will not contribute immediately to the organization which is what needs to happen for the Saints to remain viable in New Orleans. I'll say this again too and maybe someone will listen...No player in this year's draft will have an effect on the Saints' 2006 record to any real degree to make a difference in whether the team stays in NO or goes elsewhere. No. LB. No OT. No QB. It's just not gonna happen that way. Thus, we might as well get the player that most fits our team's need for a QB in the future since we have that opportunity and hope we can somehow bring in some FA players that CAN make a difference in '06. I guess I will continue to disagree with the majority. I feel that OL or LB will be able to adapt alot quicker than a QB and that's all I have to say about that.

02-19-2006, 12:08 PM	#15
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	i love when people say we should trade down to "build for the future." is taking a franchise qb that is more ready to start on an nfl team than any other prospect in years not building for the future? Just so you don't get ME confused with those people who think we need to trade down, then maybe I should be a little more specific. I've been an advocate of drafting Matt Leinart since the season began. If you go WAYYY back to after the Green Bay disaster, you'd see a post that I made that hoped we lost out the remainder of the season (which almost happened) and draft Leinart. Anyone who watched this team last year, regardless of Hurricane Katrina, saw that this was a pathetic team. Don't expect the Saints to be 10-6 or 11-5 this coming season and contending for a Super Bowl. I say trade off some of our existing players who just aren't cutting it for more draft picks and build for the future that way. Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

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02-19-2006, 12:16 PM	#16
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Just so you don't get ME confused with those people who think we need to trade down, then maybe I should be a little more specific. I've been an advocate of drafting Matt Leinart since the season began. If you go WAYYY back to after the Green Bay disaster, you'd see a post that I made that hoped we lost out the remainder of the season (which almost happened) and draft Leinart. Anyone who watched this team last year, regardless of Hurricane Katrina, saw that this was a pathetic team. Don't expect the Saints to be 10-6 or 11-5 this coming season and contending for a Super Bowl. I say trade off some of our existing players who just aren't cutting it for more draft picks and build for the future that way. Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB. Hey D, I respect a man that sticks to his guns. I have a different view but damn sure respect your opinion.

02-19-2006, 12:32 PM	#17
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	Much appreciated, Cheramie....I respect your opinion as well. It would surprise me but not shock me to see the Saints trade down in the draft and do something similar to the scenario you'd like to see. However, if they do trade down, I'd expect them to try to pick up Furgeson or Hawk with their first pick and possibly a QB with the 2nd, if they were to get 2 first rounders. Most likely Cutler or Brodie Croyle. But, IMHO, I think the Saints would be foolish to pass up Leinart, or even Young (even though I hope they don't draft Young). People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

02-19-2006, 12:49 PM	#18
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by D_it_up2 Never, and I mean NEVER should we pass up on a potential franchise QB. TRUE DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!1

02-19-2006, 01:01 PM	#19
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Originally Posted by D_it_up2 People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two. D_it_up2, I wasn't specifically pointing to the Saints in terms of offensive line play. I was simply pointing out while fans don't necessarily come out to see offensive linemen block, that teams must have effective OLine play to be successful. Personally I believe that the Saints should pick Leinard for no other reason than it's the can't miss pick of the draft. Even if Leinard never turns out to be a ProBowl, HoF QB in the NFL, there will be little "what if" type second guessing about the pick. SFIAH

02-19-2006, 01:17 PM	#20
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Originally Posted by D_it_up2 Much appreciated, Cheramie....I respect your opinion as well. It would surprise me but not shock me to see the Saints trade down in the draft and do something similar to the scenario you'd like to see. However, if they do trade down, I'd expect them to try to pick up Furgeson or Hawk with their first pick and possibly a QB with the 2nd, if they were to get 2 first rounders. Most likely Cutler or Brodie Croyle. But, IMHO, I think the Saints would be foolish to pass up Leinart, or even Young (even though I hope they don't draft Young). People use the comparison of David Carr, but our offensive line is leaps and bounds better than the Texans. They're definitely not the best, but the O-Line has been a revolving door the last few seasons with no consistency. That was the downfall of Jim Haslett because of the lack of continuity. I think Leinart will fare much better off then David Carr in his first season or two. Nice post D. I've been hearing alot about the O-line lately, when they are not all that bad. Not great, but they have shown signs of improvement. Believe me, there are worse O-lines in the league. They just had bad blocking schemes & a QB that didn't know how to navigate the pocket. I think Leinart will fare better than Carr also, simply because of his pocket presence. While not a great scrambler he moves well in the pocket allowing his linemen to do their job. It's hard for an O-lineman to block when any time your QB feels pressure, he moves outside (Aaron Brooks). That gives fast NFL DE's an edge.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe