excellent article on brees!!!

FrenzyFan · 04-03-2006, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by BJSim

...
Tobias, I agree with you. And the more I read about Lienart, the less he seems to be like Brees (Manning(s) or Brady). He had a mediocre Pro-Day, and most articles mention how he's more interested in his press than his bench-press. This is a guy who's knock was a weak arm, and he's not working out every day to get it stronger? I haven't completely left the draft Leinart camp, but I'm at the edge and peering into the other camps to see what going on in them.

I don't know what you read about Leinart's pro day, but what I read said that everyone was impressed with his accuracy, touch, field presence and leadership. They also said they were impressed by his mobility, which is not something he's known for.

No matter, I agree with the sentiments in this thread. The article feels a bit more like drama than reality, but Brees seems to be a high character guy. I am concerned by his chasing of guaranteed money. His shoulder is risky. We paid too much. Despite all these things, I feel that if you're going to take a risk like this he SEEMS to be the right kind of guy to take the risk on.

I sincerely hope all the leadership hype in the article is real. This team needs an on-the-field leader more than anything else right now. Brees COULD be that guy.

xan · 04-03-2006, 05:11 PM

I guess it doesn't worry anyone else here that of the 20 or so teams looking for qb help, only two teams bothered to talk and one dropped out almost immediately? While I like Mr. Brees and wish him the best because he's a Saint, I have no confidence that he can return to the Pro Bowl form for which he is getting paid UPFRONT.

The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it.

LongTimeFan · 04-03-2006, 07:31 PM

"The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it."

Let's be fair about it, Brees has only been with the Saints a few weeks, at least let him get through camp before saying anything negative about him.
Wait and see...

jnormand · 04-03-2006, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by xan

While I like Mr. Brees and wish him the best because he's a Saint, I have no confidence that he can return to the Pro Bowl form for which he is getting paid UPFRONT.

The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it.

Xan, at least give the guy a chance. I can understand some doubt, but not having any confidence in him is a little exteme. Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the team is more his now than it was for their prior QB. And Brees at least has the drive and the attitude to excel. I think his attitude already has shown his leadership and persistance to win.

With all due respect Xan, I hope you are very wrong about Brees.

xan · 04-04-2006, 02:01 AM

I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism.

I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions?

I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have.

Tobias-Reiper · 04-04-2006, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by xan

I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism.

I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions?

I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have.

Geez, man... new coaching staff, new QB, and already bitter before the draft?

Look, many teams neeed QBs, but not many teams needed a STARTING QB, nor many teams had the cap room to sign Brees. Tell me, which team at the start of FA needed a starting QB and had the money to sign Brees? Of the teams that had at least 10,000,000 in cap room, only the Lions needed a QB, and they have Matt Millen as GM - I do like the Kitna signing, though -. The Dolphins made a run at Brees knowing perfectly well they did NOT have the money Brees wanted.

Yes, signing a guy with an injury is a gamble, but, if you are going to gamble, this is the type of guy you want to gamble on.

LongTimeFan · 04-04-2006, 06:44 AM

I can't imagine any team paying a QB 18 mil. first year unless they knew he had a great chance of playing well after a surgery, I can almost bet the Saints doctors checked him out and gave Benson & company a good report clearing him to play , 18 mil. is a lot of money to give out to any player if there is a good chance he couldn't play well due to an injury.
Give Brees a chance because it is what it is, he's a Saint now.

FrenzyFan · 04-04-2006, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by xan

I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism.

I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions?

I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have.

I have the same fears. Throughout the years we've watched this type of injury pretty much ruin QBs. They never recover the long ball, which tends to sail on them after this kind of injury. They take a hit that originally would not have been a problem, but now knocks them out for the season. Each hit like that makes them come back worse than the year before. It's usually a career ender, though not always that year - many times it takes two or three years before they admit it. I have a similar injury, though I didn't play QB. My throwing shoulder never came back fully. All those things I take as facts, not pessimism.

By the same token, what I read about Brees seems to indicate he's a fighter with a chip on his shoulder. He's an on-the-field/off-the-field leader, calling his team mates at their homes and checking on them. Coming up with innovative "team" things in the locker room (like the Salty Dog football). It seems to me that having Rivers breathing down his neck lit a fire under him, put him in a position where he had to prove something and he did. I see his ordeal this off-season as a similar situation wherein AGAIN he feels like he has something to prove. I suspect his long ball will be gone (a duck), but I don't care about that if he is poised and accurate on the short to mid routes. If he can read a defense and lead the team, I believe we can win with this team. When I look at the last few seasons, the absence of that leadership and poise cost us at least three games a year.

Basically what I'm saying is that I am willing to reserve condemning Brees and the money we paid him, based on hope. I have nothing concrete, just hope. At the same time, I acknowledge that this was a HUGELY risky signing and the odds are not good.

As an aside, I personally feel that if we pass on Leinart our front office is filled with fools. Leinart seems to be everything Brees grew into, without a shoulder injury or the baggage from time spent in the San Diego situation. I understand when our new coach says he wants to win now, but I take the longer view. Great linemen and great linebackers come out in the draft every single year. How often will we have a high enough draft pick to select someone like Leinart.

xan · 04-04-2006, 11:15 AM

Bitter? You ain't seen bitter yet, baby. Just pass on Lienart and don't get Brees back until week 14. Then you'll see bitter, starting with the last preseason game (with hints of acrid spew every time Brees doesn't throw in drills). I find his attitude refreshing for the Saints, but there's a reason that we pay the cheerleaders NOTHING, and this guy wouldn't look good in a halter top.

Remember, Brees didn't start playing well until there was a real challenge waiting anxiously on the sidelines in SD.

FanNJ · 04-04-2006, 01:27 PM

Frenzy,

Nice post, I appreciate you bringing some personal reality to the injury. Like I stated elsewhere I have seen what happens with the injury.

Just curious how long did it take to get the strength and motion back into the sholder and arm?

And for all of the optimists out there I too hope that Brees can return to pre injury form, however I suspect that boosting ticket sales had alot to do with the signing. I hope he can return intime for the season, but do not want to watch a one year stop gap player all season, when there are some great prospects there in the draft.

04-03-2006, 04:53 PM	#21
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Originally Posted by BJSim ... Tobias, I agree with you. And the more I read about Lienart, the less he seems to be like Brees (Manning(s) or Brady). He had a mediocre Pro-Day, and most articles mention how he's more interested in his press than his bench-press. This is a guy who's knock was a weak arm, and he's not working out every day to get it stronger? I haven't completely left the draft Leinart camp, but I'm at the edge and peering into the other camps to see what going on in them. I don't know what you read about Leinart's pro day, but what I read said that everyone was impressed with his accuracy, touch, field presence and leadership. They also said they were impressed by his mobility, which is not something he's known for. No matter, I agree with the sentiments in this thread. The article feels a bit more like drama than reality, but Brees seems to be a high character guy. I am concerned by his chasing of guaranteed money. His shoulder is risky. We paid too much. Despite all these things, I feel that if you're going to take a risk like this he SEEMS to be the right kind of guy to take the risk on. I sincerely hope all the leadership hype in the article is real. This team needs an on-the-field leader more than anything else right now. Brees COULD be that guy.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

04-03-2006, 10:19 PM	#24
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,662	Originally Posted by xan While I like Mr. Brees and wish him the best because he's a Saint, I have no confidence that he can return to the Pro Bowl form for which he is getting paid UPFRONT. The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it. Xan, at least give the guy a chance. I can understand some doubt, but not having any confidence in him is a little exteme. Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the team is more his now than it was for their prior QB. And Brees at least has the drive and the attitude to excel. I think his attitude already has shown his leadership and persistance to win. With all due respect Xan, I hope you are very wrong about Brees.

04-04-2006, 05:20 AM	#26
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by xan I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism. I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions? I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have. Geez, man... new coaching staff, new QB, and already bitter before the draft? Look, many teams neeed QBs, but not many teams needed a STARTING QB, nor many teams had the cap room to sign Brees. Tell me, which team at the start of FA needed a starting QB and had the money to sign Brees? Of the teams that had at least 10,000,000 in cap room, only the Lions needed a QB, and they have Matt Millen as GM - I do like the Kitna signing, though -. The Dolphins made a run at Brees knowing perfectly well they did NOT have the money Brees wanted. Yes, signing a guy with an injury is a gamble, but, if you are going to gamble, this is the type of guy you want to gamble on.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

04-04-2006, 07:47 AM	#28
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Originally Posted by xan I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism. I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions? I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have. I have the same fears. Throughout the years we've watched this type of injury pretty much ruin QBs. They never recover the long ball, which tends to sail on them after this kind of injury. They take a hit that originally would not have been a problem, but now knocks them out for the season. Each hit like that makes them come back worse than the year before. It's usually a career ender, though not always that year - many times it takes two or three years before they admit it. I have a similar injury, though I didn't play QB. My throwing shoulder never came back fully. All those things I take as facts, not pessimism. By the same token, what I read about Brees seems to indicate he's a fighter with a chip on his shoulder. He's an on-the-field/off-the-field leader, calling his team mates at their homes and checking on them. Coming up with innovative "team" things in the locker room (like the Salty Dog football). It seems to me that having Rivers breathing down his neck lit a fire under him, put him in a position where he had to prove something and he did. I see his ordeal this off-season as a similar situation wherein AGAIN he feels like he has something to prove. I suspect his long ball will be gone (a duck), but I don't care about that if he is poised and accurate on the short to mid routes. If he can read a defense and lead the team, I believe we can win with this team. When I look at the last few seasons, the absence of that leadership and poise cost us at least three games a year. Basically what I'm saying is that I am willing to reserve condemning Brees and the money we paid him, based on hope. I have nothing concrete, just hope. At the same time, I acknowledge that this was a HUGELY risky signing and the odds are not good. As an aside, I personally feel that if we pass on Leinart our front office is filled with fools. Leinart seems to be everything Brees grew into, without a shoulder injury or the baggage from time spent in the San Diego situation. I understand when our new coach says he wants to win now, but I take the longer view. Great linemen and great linebackers come out in the draft every single year. How often will we have a high enough draft pick to select someone like Leinart.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

04-04-2006, 01:27 PM	#30
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	Frenzy, Nice post, I appreciate you bringing some personal reality to the injury. Like I stated elsewhere I have seen what happens with the injury. Just curious how long did it take to get the strength and motion back into the sholder and arm? And for all of the optimists out there I too hope that Brees can return to pre injury form, however I suspect that boosting ticket sales had alot to do with the signing. I hope he can return intime for the season, but do not want to watch a one year stop gap player all season, when there are some great prospects there in the draft.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

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04-03-2006, 05:11 PM	#22
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	I guess it doesn't worry anyone else here that of the 20 or so teams looking for qb help, only two teams bothered to talk and one dropped out almost immediately? While I like Mr. Brees and wish him the best because he's a Saint, I have no confidence that he can return to the Pro Bowl form for which he is getting paid UPFRONT. The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it.

04-03-2006, 07:31 PM	#23
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	"The Saints really isn't his team until he can prove he can play for it." Let's be fair about it, Brees has only been with the Saints a few weeks, at least let him get through camp before saying anything negative about him. Wait and see...

04-04-2006, 02:01 AM	#25
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	I hope I am very wrong about Mr. Brees, too. However, players who have this kind of injury take a long time to heal and the vast majority of them don't recover the mobility control and flexibility necessary to play quarterback in the NFL. I hope he's the exception, but he's got to actually do something. Every one, but the Saints, in the football know passed on this guy because they have a realistic expectation about this kind of injury. He's one loose throw from being on the IR for the whole season, one measily little "elbow touch foul" on his follow through from playing Madden 2006 for the rest of the season. I will cringe every time he gets sacked knowing the spit and duct tape holding his livelihood together may fail. Who can blame him or any on his "team" for being optimistic (wildly, I'd say) about his prognosis and current condition. The only suckers are the people who overextend their risk relying on this optimism. I would definitely have a different attitude if he were entering our camps this spring with no career threatening injury, that he's the leader and he'll be the man. Unfortunately, he may not see any action until the very end of preseason at the earliest. Then what? Who leads this team into the season? How long will it take Mr. Brees to catch up to game conditions? I can see no worse situation than having your overpaid franchise quarterback on the bench at the beginning of the season and some total nimrod cast off running another season of offensive underachievement. I want a margin for error, and there is none without a quality backup, which we don't have.

04-04-2006, 06:44 AM	#27
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	I can't imagine any team paying a QB 18 mil. first year unless they knew he had a great chance of playing well after a surgery, I can almost bet the Saints doctors checked him out and gave Benson & company a good report clearing him to play , 18 mil. is a lot of money to give out to any player if there is a good chance he couldn't play well due to an injury. Give Brees a chance because it is what it is, he's a Saint now.

04-04-2006, 11:15 AM	#29
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Bitter? You ain't seen bitter yet, baby. Just pass on Lienart and don't get Brees back until week 14. Then you'll see bitter, starting with the last preseason game (with hints of acrid spew every time Brees doesn't throw in drills). I find his attitude refreshing for the Saints, but there's a reason that we pay the cheerleaders NOTHING, and this guy wouldn't look good in a halter top. Remember, Brees didn't start playing well until there was a real challenge waiting anxiously on the sidelines in SD.