We won't stand for it anymore!

CheramieIII · 05-13-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Well, if you are tired of hearing about arrests, tickets, etc, the simple solution is don't watch sports shows on TV or listen to them on the radio.

The NFL is an entertainment corporation, nothing more, nothing less. And certainly it is not the judiciary branch of the U.S. gov't. There are thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day. The difference is that ESPN or Fox Sports is not there to report it. When it comes to shootings at strip clubs that are reported on ESPN, surely there are much more non-football players than football players involved. If no athlete is involved, you don't get to hear about them on ESPN or Fox Sports.

So, I assume from your statement that the NFL allows this stuff to go on because it's just entertainment, shock value, more people will watch a train wreck theory? It has nothing to do with an 8 year old boy in Toledo who watches Vick play football and idolizes the stupid SOB and wants to be just like him?

and yes I will have to agree with you that thousands of people get speeding tickets everyday, but I am very sure that not many of them are in the same situation as Pacwoman.

and yes Reiper you have to admit there have been alot of shootings at strip clubs invloving professional athletes in recent months. I don't think I've seen any other stories on the news involving your average fan shooting something at a strip club in Atlanta other than a load in his pants.

Tobias-Reiper · 05-13-2007, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

So, I assume from your statement that the NFL allows this stuff to go on because it's just entertainment, shock value, more people will watch a train wreck theory? It has nothing to do with an 8 year old boy in Toledo who watches Vick play football and idolizes the stupid SOB and wants to be just like him?

and yes I will have to agree with you that thousands of people get speeding tickets everyday, but I am very sure that not many of them are in the same situation as Pacwoman.

and yes Reiper you have to admit there have been alot of shootings at strip clubs invloving professional athletes in recent months. I don't think I've seen any other stories on the news involving your average fan shooting something at a strip club in Atlanta other than a load in his pants.

First off, drop the holier than thou attitude.

Second, I have never seen a football player drive drunk at a football game, nor seen a football player fire a weapon at a football game, nor get arrested at a football game. So no one watches NFL games to see a "train wreck".

Third, I don't care about the 8 year old in Toledo. He's got parents. If not , life's though.
In any case, the kid could watch Vick play football and aspire to play like him. However, he would have to watch ESPN/surf and/or BDSS to learn about Vick's other issues.

Again, you simply don't hear stories about other shootings at strip clubs if they don't involve someone in the limelight, as simple as that. I live in NC. Merely hours after the Jones incident in Las Vegas, I heard about it on the radio. Around the same date, a cop was shot and killed at a very popular night club ( no strip club) where I live. Did you hear about it? Chances are you didn't, because it involved nobodies.

For the thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day, there has to be millions who don't get caught when speeding. Have you ever gone faster than the speed limit? How would you like to get a speeding ticket, then go to work the next day abd get "suspended without pay"? Oh, yeah, they make millions for playing football, and you would get paid millions too, if you did something millions of people would want to watch, and hundreds of corporations would want to advertise on it, and people would by the same hat and shirt you were... but alas, you don't.

JOESAM2002 · 05-13-2007, 02:11 PM

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa there big fella. Chill, it's only an opinion.....just like anyone elses.

jergensl · 05-13-2007, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Again, you simply don't hear stories about other shootings at strip clubs if they don't involve someone in the limelight, as simple as that. I live in NC. Merely hours after the Jones incident in Las Vegas, I heard about it on the radio. Around the same date, a cop was shot and killed at a very popular night club ( no strip club) where I live. Did you hear about it? Chances are you didn't, because it involved nobodies.

For the thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day, there has to be millions who don't get caught when speeding. Have you ever gone faster than the speed limit? How would you like to get a speeding ticket, then go to work the next day abd get "suspended without pay"? Oh, yeah, they make millions for playing football, and you would get paid millions too, if you did something millions of people would want to watch, and hundreds of corporations would want to advertise on it, and people would by the same hat and shirt you were... but alas, you don't.

ok...news organizations are in the business of spreading news...a "nobody" being shot or arrested is only news in that local area, because that person's realm of influence is in that area...if a famous person is shot or arrested that is national news, because that person is known throughout the nation.

is the nfl was suspending players for simple speeding tickets you would have an argument, but they are not. dui, assault, and drug charges are much bigger than silly speeding tickets. in good quality jobs you will get suspended or even fired if you have a dui, assault, or drug charges. any employer who wouldn't has a serious lack of morals.

Tobias-Reiper · 05-13-2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by jergensl

ok...news organizations are in the business of spreading news...a "nobody" being shot or arrested is only news in that local area, because that person's realm of influence is in that area...if a famous person is shot or arrested that is national news, because that person is known throughout the nation.

is the nfl was suspending players for simple speeding tickets you would have an argument, but they are not. dui, assault, and drug charges are much bigger than silly speeding tickets. in good quality jobs you will get suspended or even fired if you have a dui, assault, or drug charges. any employer who wouldn't has a serious lack of morals.

I don't get the point of your reply ... guess you didn't read the whole thread.

Speaking of '"quality jobs", I don't know what you consider a "quality job", but there are such things are wrongful termination suits. It just depends on how your contract is written. But that's a discussion for another thread.

CheramieIII · 05-14-2007, 04:46 PM

Damn Reiper, I ain't no preacher and if I gave you or anyone that impression I sincerely apologize.

On another note, I do think that what Pacwoman or any other sports figure does that's illegal or continually skirts the law should have consequences.

In my profession I would have been fired a long time ago and I don't make the money they make, but it's good money and I give an honest days work.

It is their choice to be where they are, in the limelight and all and if it was their only choice then it's their own damn fault too.

jergensl · 05-14-2007, 08:23 PM

tobias,
i was commenting on your comparisons and how i thought they were misguided.

Tobias-Reiper · 05-16-2007, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

Damn Reiper, I ain't no preacher and if I gave you or anyone that impression I sincerely apologize.

On another note, I do think that what Pacwoman or any other sports figure does that's illegal or continually skirts the law should have consequences.

In my profession I would have been fired a long time ago and I don't make the money they make, but it's good money and I give an honest days work.

It is their choice to be where they are, in the limelight and all and if it was their only choice then it's their own damn fault too.

Well. I didn't mean it as stern as it sounded. I should've put a dancing broccoli smily or something...

... I understand what you are saying, I do... it's just the nature of this beast called profesional football. As fans, there is only one thing we can do to display or displeasure to the league, and we are not going to do it: stop patronizing the game. See? You are not going to do that

Regardless of the Pacmans (or Pacwomans

), the Mexicos, the Romos, etc, we'll still watch it, and buy the jersey, and the hat, and the tickets, etc, etc etc.

But also, you need to remember, that for every Mexico, there's a Brees, a Manning, a Pennington, A Brady... and that for every Henry, there's a Colston, and Harrison, and Smith... there are plenty of high character guys playing the game. Look how many we have in Brees, Deuce, Reggie, Karney, Colston...

The PBA allows ShePac to plead his case. Hey, let him. After all, this is America...and if he gets some games back, you just know he's going to screw it up down the line, and hurt not only his pocket, but his team.

Now, let me ask you a question

Did you feel the same way when Rickey Jackson crashed his Corvette going 120 MPH and traces of cocaine were found in his car?

WhoDat205 · 05-16-2007, 04:21 PM

Excellent emoticon usage, Tobias.

I just hope that you all realize that we fuel the beast here. Our $30-40K a year that we use to buy tickets and beer, tvs and cable are the dollars that end up in these guys' pockets.

The players are role models*, but no one ever said that those were good things. They are also employees subject to the rules of their employers...us. (The collective) We support their behavior every Sunday, Monday and sometimes Thursday for 20 weeks a year. We start idolizing them when they're in High School (or earlier) keep it up through their formative college years and then we crucify them when they keep acting like they're the greatest thing ever. We keep giving them chances.

*American Heritage Dictionary:
role model - A person who serves as an example of the values, attitudes, and behaviors associated with a role. For example, a father is a role model for his sons. Role models can also be persons who distinguish themselves in such a way that others admire and want to emulate them. For example, a woman who becomes a successful brain surgeon or airline pilot can be described as a role model for other women.

And what does "chida" mean?

spkb25 · 05-14-2007, 09:26 PM

yo seriously one thing about T.O. the guy is never in legal trouble. i dont care so much for pacmans speeding but with what has happened in the past you would figure he would be out of trouble. like a saint just about. no pun. this cat never learns. yo man everyone is different and so is the environment you grow up in. i know that these guys are young and i am not sure that at 22 i would have been able to be as mature as needed to play in the nfl or stay in the nfl. see though that is what it comes down to. if you can't at some point mature you will be lawerence phillips. wasted talent. the end of a bad joke 10 years later. it is how it goes. these guys are given the opportunity to never ever have to work a job outside of playing in the nfl. something they are all very skilled at. it does a take a lot of work to be there. if they can't see the blessing in front of them well then they need to go. i have no pity for muarice clarett, lawerence phillips, and what will be in a year or two pacman jones. it isn't like they are being thrown out of the league after one or two issues. these cats are given a lot of chances. some actually get it and get their life in order. you know like ray lewis. the others, well they end up in jail or just silly poor because they can not get a job in the sport anymore and return to what they are. crooks and pieces of dirt. sorry i don't feel bad and i don't think anyone besides them them self are the issue that needs to be addressed.

05-13-2007, 11:43 AM	#1
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,497 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Well, if you are tired of hearing about arrests, tickets, etc, the simple solution is don't watch sports shows on TV or listen to them on the radio. The NFL is an entertainment corporation, nothing more, nothing less. And certainly it is not the judiciary branch of the U.S. gov't. There are thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day. The difference is that ESPN or Fox Sports is not there to report it. When it comes to shootings at strip clubs that are reported on ESPN, surely there are much more non-football players than football players involved. If no athlete is involved, you don't get to hear about them on ESPN or Fox Sports. So, I assume from your statement that the NFL allows this stuff to go on because it's just entertainment, shock value, more people will watch a train wreck theory? It has nothing to do with an 8 year old boy in Toledo who watches Vick play football and idolizes the stupid SOB and wants to be just like him? and yes I will have to agree with you that thousands of people get speeding tickets everyday, but I am very sure that not many of them are in the same situation as Pacwoman. and yes Reiper you have to admit there have been alot of shootings at strip clubs invloving professional athletes in recent months. I don't think I've seen any other stories on the news involving your average fan shooting something at a strip club in Atlanta other than a load in his pants.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret

05-13-2007, 12:35 PM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by CheramieIII So, I assume from your statement that the NFL allows this stuff to go on because it's just entertainment, shock value, more people will watch a train wreck theory? It has nothing to do with an 8 year old boy in Toledo who watches Vick play football and idolizes the stupid SOB and wants to be just like him? and yes I will have to agree with you that thousands of people get speeding tickets everyday, but I am very sure that not many of them are in the same situation as Pacwoman. and yes Reiper you have to admit there have been alot of shootings at strip clubs invloving professional athletes in recent months. I don't think I've seen any other stories on the news involving your average fan shooting something at a strip club in Atlanta other than a load in his pants. First off, drop the holier than thou attitude. Second, I have never seen a football player drive drunk at a football game, nor seen a football player fire a weapon at a football game, nor get arrested at a football game. So no one watches NFL games to see a "train wreck". Third, I don't care about the 8 year old in Toledo. He's got parents. If not , life's though. In any case, the kid could watch Vick play football and aspire to play like him. However, he would have to watch ESPN/surf and/or BDSS to learn about Vick's other issues. Again, you simply don't hear stories about other shootings at strip clubs if they don't involve someone in the limelight, as simple as that. I live in NC. Merely hours after the Jones incident in Las Vegas, I heard about it on the radio. Around the same date, a cop was shot and killed at a very popular night club ( no strip club) where I live. Did you hear about it? Chances are you didn't, because it involved nobodies. For the thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day, there has to be millions who don't get caught when speeding. Have you ever gone faster than the speed limit? How would you like to get a speeding ticket, then go to work the next day abd get "suspended without pay"? Oh, yeah, they make millions for playing football, and you would get paid millions too, if you did something millions of people would want to watch, and hundreds of corporations would want to advertise on it, and people would by the same hat and shirt you were... but alas, you don't.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

05-13-2007, 06:37 PM	#4
jergensl 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belleview, FL Posts: 526	horrible comparisons Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Again, you simply don't hear stories about other shootings at strip clubs if they don't involve someone in the limelight, as simple as that. I live in NC. Merely hours after the Jones incident in Las Vegas, I heard about it on the radio. Around the same date, a cop was shot and killed at a very popular night club ( no strip club) where I live. Did you hear about it? Chances are you didn't, because it involved nobodies. For the thousands of people who get speeding tickets every day, there has to be millions who don't get caught when speeding. Have you ever gone faster than the speed limit? How would you like to get a speeding ticket, then go to work the next day abd get "suspended without pay"? Oh, yeah, they make millions for playing football, and you would get paid millions too, if you did something millions of people would want to watch, and hundreds of corporations would want to advertise on it, and people would by the same hat and shirt you were... but alas, you don't. ok...news organizations are in the business of spreading news...a "nobody" being shot or arrested is only news in that local area, because that person's realm of influence is in that area...if a famous person is shot or arrested that is national news, because that person is known throughout the nation. is the nfl was suspending players for simple speeding tickets you would have an argument, but they are not. dui, assault, and drug charges are much bigger than silly speeding tickets. in good quality jobs you will get suspended or even fired if you have a dui, assault, or drug charges. any employer who wouldn't has a serious lack of morals.

05-13-2007, 06:47 PM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by jergensl ok...news organizations are in the business of spreading news...a "nobody" being shot or arrested is only news in that local area, because that person's realm of influence is in that area...if a famous person is shot or arrested that is national news, because that person is known throughout the nation. is the nfl was suspending players for simple speeding tickets you would have an argument, but they are not. dui, assault, and drug charges are much bigger than silly speeding tickets. in good quality jobs you will get suspended or even fired if you have a dui, assault, or drug charges. any employer who wouldn't has a serious lack of morals. I don't get the point of your reply ... guess you didn't read the whole thread. Speaking of '"quality jobs", I don't know what you consider a "quality job", but there are such things are wrongful termination suits. It just depends on how your contract is written. But that's a discussion for another thread.
	Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 05-13-2007 at 06:50 PM..

05-14-2007, 04:46 PM	#6
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,497 Blog Entries: 3	Damn Reiper, I ain't no preacher and if I gave you or anyone that impression I sincerely apologize. On another note, I do think that what Pacwoman or any other sports figure does that's illegal or continually skirts the law should have consequences. In my profession I would have been fired a long time ago and I don't make the money they make, but it's good money and I give an honest days work. It is their choice to be where they are, in the limelight and all and if it was their only choice then it's their own damn fault too.
	Golf and sex are about the only things you can enjoy without being good at them. Jimmy Demaret

05-13-2007, 02:11 PM	#3
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Whoaaaaaaaaaaa there big fella. Chill, it's only an opinion.....just like anyone elses.

05-14-2007, 08:23 PM	#7
jergensl 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belleview, FL Posts: 526	explanation tobias, i was commenting on your comparisons and how i thought they were misguided.

05-16-2007, 03:36 PM	#8
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Originally Posted by CheramieIII Damn Reiper, I ain't no preacher and if I gave you or anyone that impression I sincerely apologize. On another note, I do think that what Pacwoman or any other sports figure does that's illegal or continually skirts the law should have consequences. In my profession I would have been fired a long time ago and I don't make the money they make, but it's good money and I give an honest days work. It is their choice to be where they are, in the limelight and all and if it was their only choice then it's their own damn fault too. Well. I didn't mean it as stern as it sounded. I should've put a dancing broccoli smily or something... ... I understand what you are saying, I do... it's just the nature of this beast called profesional football. As fans, there is only one thing we can do to display or displeasure to the league, and we are not going to do it: stop patronizing the game. See? You are not going to do that Regardless of the Pacmans (or Pacwomans ), the Mexicos, the Romos, etc, we'll still watch it, and buy the jersey, and the hat, and the tickets, etc, etc etc. But also, you need to remember, that for every Mexico, there's a Brees, a Manning, a Pennington, A Brady... and that for every Henry, there's a Colston, and Harrison, and Smith... there are plenty of high character guys playing the game. Look how many we have in Brees, Deuce, Reggie, Karney, Colston... The PBA allows ShePac to plead his case. Hey, let him. After all, this is America...and if he gets some games back, you just know he's going to screw it up down the line, and hurt not only his pocket, but his team. Now, let me ask you a question Did you feel the same way when Rickey Jackson crashed his Corvette going 120 MPH and traces of cocaine were found in his car?
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

05-16-2007, 04:21 PM	#9
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Excellent emoticon usage, Tobias. I just hope that you all realize that we fuel the beast here. Our $30-40K a year that we use to buy tickets and beer, tvs and cable are the dollars that end up in these guys' pockets. The players are role models, but no one ever said that those were good things. They are also employees subject to the rules of their employers...us. (The collective) We support their behavior every Sunday, Monday and sometimes Thursday for 20 weeks a year. We start idolizing them when they're in High School (or earlier) keep it up through their formative college years and then we crucify them when they keep acting like they're the greatest thing ever. We keep giving them chances. American Heritage Dictionary: role model - A person who serves as an example of the values, attitudes, and behaviors associated with a role. For example, a father is a role model for his sons. Role models can also be persons who distinguish themselves in such a way that others admire and want to emulate them. For example, a woman who becomes a successful brain surgeon or airline pilot can be described as a role model for other women. And what does "chida" mean?

05-14-2007, 09:26 PM	#10
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	yo seriously one thing about T.O. the guy is never in legal trouble. i dont care so much for pacmans speeding but with what has happened in the past you would figure he would be out of trouble. like a saint just about. no pun. this cat never learns. yo man everyone is different and so is the environment you grow up in. i know that these guys are young and i am not sure that at 22 i would have been able to be as mature as needed to play in the nfl or stay in the nfl. see though that is what it comes down to. if you can't at some point mature you will be lawerence phillips. wasted talent. the end of a bad joke 10 years later. it is how it goes. these guys are given the opportunity to never ever have to work a job outside of playing in the nfl. something they are all very skilled at. it does a take a lot of work to be there. if they can't see the blessing in front of them well then they need to go. i have no pity for muarice clarett, lawerence phillips, and what will be in a year or two pacman jones. it isn't like they are being thrown out of the league after one or two issues. these cats are given a lot of chances. some actually get it and get their life in order. you know like ray lewis. the others, well they end up in jail or just silly poor because they can not get a job in the sport anymore and return to what they are. crooks and pieces of dirt. sorry i don't feel bad and i don't think anyone besides them them self are the issue that needs to be addressed.
	Your team stinks

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