Defensive Front Four.

WhoDat · 07-07-2003, 01:18 PM

Our D line SHOULD be the cornerstone of our defense (although our safeties could be quite good). My fear is this: Howard get hurt, Grant shows that he still has flashes but he also still makes the mistakes that come with inexperience, same goes for Sullivan, and Kenny Smith shows why he has been a back-up and never a starter.

Don\'t get me wrong, I am hopeful that this group can come through. I have a reasonable amount of confidence that they will. I\'m just trying to play devil\'s advocate b/c everyone here is talking about how good these guys should be. Just flip that coin over and what you\'ve got is 2nd year starter, Rookie, 1st year starter, above-average veteran. Take Howard out of that mix and our D line looks really shaky. If they fall apart, so will we... b/c run stopping ability and pressure up front affect every other player on the field. If the D line fails, so will our linebackers, corners, and even safeties.

That being said, I do think they\'ll play well. I\'m just not sure how well until I see them in training camp or the first preseason game.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-07-2003, 01:24 PM

WhoDat,

I\'ve flipped the coin over so many times that I\'ve rubbed a hole throgh it. I never really consider injurys, because all teams have them. But your right, it could go either way.

WhoDat · 07-07-2003, 03:11 PM

Yeah man, I hate to always be the killjoy around here, but our defense is really questionable. I hope Grant, Sullivan, Smith, and Howard can step up, just like I hope Allen can come through big in his first year, or Ruff can really be the stud at MLB that we need, or Rodgers can play up to his potential, or Carter can stay clean and be the shutdown guy he\'s supposed to be, or that Thomas and Ambrose haven\'t lost a step, or Mitchell can truly be Knight with speed in his first year, or that Tebucky will finally start playing CONSISTENT pro bowl caliber football....

... starting to get my point? See all of the questions? If everything goes as planned this defense can be very good. The problem is that things almost never go as planned in football... I just think we all need to be realistic about this. Saying our offense can be top five in the league seems realistic to me. Saying our defense will be better than average (top15) isn\'t crazy, but I don\'t know how grounded it is in reality at this point... you know?

tweeky · 07-07-2003, 03:24 PM

Saying our offense can be top five in the league seems realistic to me. Saying our defense will be better than average (top15) isn\'t crazy, but I don\'t know how grounded it is in reality at this point... you know?

But compared to last years roster, this years appears better.
Saints were 27th last year at 362YPG
Middle (15th) yielded 324YPG

Thats only 38 yards per game better than the Saints or about 1 less possession for our opponents. I think the moves we made justify the optimism of of mid-pack Defense or better.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-07-2003, 03:35 PM

WhoDat,

I agree that we have a lot of question marks. It\'s hard to argue with most of what you say, but it is easier to build a defense than an offense. With that being said, it is not unusual for a highly drafted D-lineman to have a big impact in his rookie year. If I had to bet, I\'d bet he has a good rookie year.

Realistically speaking, Charles Grant should have a better year and he didn\'t play too bad last year.

Kenny Smith, he\'s the biggest question mark but the guy has some great skills. The coaches, who are around him the most, say he looks impressive. He is the biggest question mark though. I would not label him as a career back up though.

Darren Howard is proven and there is no question mark here.

I understand after seeing the horrid Saints D last year, it is easy to question how much better this D is going to be, but I\'m more exited about the D than I am the offense.

I\'m not looking for a miricle, just enough to make the opposing offenses kick a lot of field goals.

Would you want to kick FG\'s against our offense?

WhoDat · 07-07-2003, 03:47 PM

You both have very good points and I\'m not saying that I disagree with either of you. I\'m just saying that there\'s a real possibility that our D could be bad again.

I do disagree that it is harder to build a defense than an offense... ESPECIALLY in today\'s NFL. I\'m not telling you that you should be pessimistic. I\'m just saying that I will not get excited about a defense with 5 first time starters, 4 new players, no playing time together really whatsoever, led by Rick Venturi, until I see it produce.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-07-2003, 03:55 PM

We\'ll save which is easier to build an offense or a defense for another thread.

I\'ve taken everything you have mentioned into consideration and as optimistic as I am, there are a lot of question marks.

The thing about it is though, there\'s no question im my mind that they could be any worse than last years defense.

nocloning · 07-07-2003, 04:21 PM

The thing about it is though, there\'s no question im my mind that they could be any worse than last years defense.

They could? How? Arrrrgh.
I think most people are a little too high on Sullivan including the coaches. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but aren\'t they planning on using him as a nose tackle and have Kenny Smith line up on either side of him? Sounds to me like they want to make him the anchor at least of the front four. He\'s going to have a good rookie year, but maybe expectations are a little too high.
Kenny Smith: May struggle against very heavy linemen when defending the run. Otherwise he should be okay.
Still hoping that Grady will get his act together so he can at least contribute 10+ plays every game to give the other two guys a breather.
With Grant and Howard providing an outside pass rush, this line can be quite dangerous. If our offense stays as explosive as last year, the pass rush will be the key to their success.

BillyCarpenter1 · 07-07-2003, 04:29 PM

I think most people are a little too high on Sullivan including the coaches.

And why do u feel this way?Do you know something I don\'t?

When you take a guy with the 6th pick in the draft, can you really be too high on him?

If so, they shouldn\'t have drafted him...........

tweeky · 07-07-2003, 04:42 PM

Kenny Smith: May struggle against very heavy linemen when defending the run. Otherwise he should be okay.
Still hoping that Grady will get his act together so he can at least contribute 10+ plays every game to give the other two guys a breather.

The coaches said he came in bigger/stronger/faster than last year but they didn\'t say how much bigger. If he put on 20lbs of muscle, he may not struggle against big linemen and may be a flat out stud. They implied that he turned heads.

But If he only put on 5 lbs, well whoopty frickin\' doo. He\'ll be back at #3 DE by week 4.

07-07-2003, 01:18 PM	#11
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Defensive Front Four. Our D line SHOULD be the cornerstone of our defense (although our safeties could be quite good). My fear is this: Howard get hurt, Grant shows that he still has flashes but he also still makes the mistakes that come with inexperience, same goes for Sullivan, and Kenny Smith shows why he has been a back-up and never a starter. Don\'t get me wrong, I am hopeful that this group can come through. I have a reasonable amount of confidence that they will. I\'m just trying to play devil\'s advocate b/c everyone here is talking about how good these guys should be. Just flip that coin over and what you\'ve got is 2nd year starter, Rookie, 1st year starter, above-average veteran. Take Howard out of that mix and our D line looks really shaky. If they fall apart, so will we... b/c run stopping ability and pressure up front affect every other player on the field. If the D line fails, so will our linebackers, corners, and even safeties. That being said, I do think they\'ll play well. I\'m just not sure how well until I see them in training camp or the first preseason game.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

07-07-2003, 01:24 PM	#12
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Defensive Front Four. WhoDat, I\'ve flipped the coin over so many times that I\'ve rubbed a hole throgh it. I never really consider injurys, because all teams have them. But your right, it could go either way.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

07-07-2003, 03:11 PM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Defensive Front Four. Yeah man, I hate to always be the killjoy around here, but our defense is really questionable. I hope Grant, Sullivan, Smith, and Howard can step up, just like I hope Allen can come through big in his first year, or Ruff can really be the stud at MLB that we need, or Rodgers can play up to his potential, or Carter can stay clean and be the shutdown guy he\'s supposed to be, or that Thomas and Ambrose haven\'t lost a step, or Mitchell can truly be Knight with speed in his first year, or that Tebucky will finally start playing CONSISTENT pro bowl caliber football.... ... starting to get my point? See all of the questions? If everything goes as planned this defense can be very good. The problem is that things almost never go as planned in football... I just think we all need to be realistic about this. Saying our offense can be top five in the league seems realistic to me. Saying our defense will be better than average (top15) isn\'t crazy, but I don\'t know how grounded it is in reality at this point... you know?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

07-07-2003, 03:24 PM	#14
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Defensive Front Four. Saying our offense can be top five in the league seems realistic to me. Saying our defense will be better than average (top15) isn\'t crazy, but I don\'t know how grounded it is in reality at this point... you know? But compared to last years roster, this years appears better. Saints were 27th last year at 362YPG Middle (15th) yielded 324YPG Thats only 38 yards per game better than the Saints or about 1 less possession for our opponents. I think the moves we made justify the optimism of of mid-pack Defense or better.

07-07-2003, 03:35 PM	#15
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Defensive Front Four. WhoDat, I agree that we have a lot of question marks. It\'s hard to argue with most of what you say, but it is easier to build a defense than an offense. With that being said, it is not unusual for a highly drafted D-lineman to have a big impact in his rookie year. If I had to bet, I\'d bet he has a good rookie year. Realistically speaking, Charles Grant should have a better year and he didn\'t play too bad last year. Kenny Smith, he\'s the biggest question mark but the guy has some great skills. The coaches, who are around him the most, say he looks impressive. He is the biggest question mark though. I would not label him as a career back up though. Darren Howard is proven and there is no question mark here. I understand after seeing the horrid Saints D last year, it is easy to question how much better this D is going to be, but I\'m more exited about the D than I am the offense. I\'m not looking for a miricle, just enough to make the opposing offenses kick a lot of field goals. Would you want to kick FG\'s against our offense?
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

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07-07-2003, 03:47 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Defensive Front Four. You both have very good points and I\'m not saying that I disagree with either of you. I\'m just saying that there\'s a real possibility that our D could be bad again. I do disagree that it is harder to build a defense than an offense... ESPECIALLY in today\'s NFL. I\'m not telling you that you should be pessimistic. I\'m just saying that I will not get excited about a defense with 5 first time starters, 4 new players, no playing time together really whatsoever, led by Rick Venturi, until I see it produce.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

07-07-2003, 03:55 PM	#17
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Defensive Front Four. We\'ll save which is easier to build an offense or a defense for another thread. I\'ve taken everything you have mentioned into consideration and as optimistic as I am, there are a lot of question marks. The thing about it is though, there\'s no question im my mind that they could be any worse than last years defense.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

07-07-2003, 04:21 PM	#18
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	Defensive Front Four. The thing about it is though, there\'s no question im my mind that they could be any worse than last years defense. They could? How? Arrrrgh. I think most people are a little too high on Sullivan including the coaches. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but aren\'t they planning on using him as a nose tackle and have Kenny Smith line up on either side of him? Sounds to me like they want to make him the anchor at least of the front four. He\'s going to have a good rookie year, but maybe expectations are a little too high. Kenny Smith: May struggle against very heavy linemen when defending the run. Otherwise he should be okay. Still hoping that Grady will get his act together so he can at least contribute 10+ plays every game to give the other two guys a breather. With Grant and Howard providing an outside pass rush, this line can be quite dangerous. If our offense stays as explosive as last year, the pass rush will be the key to their success.
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"

07-07-2003, 04:29 PM	#19
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Defensive Front Four. I think most people are a little too high on Sullivan including the coaches. And why do u feel this way?Do you know something I don\'t? When you take a guy with the 6th pick in the draft, can you really be too high on him? If so, they shouldn\'t have drafted him...........
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

07-07-2003, 04:42 PM	#20
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Defensive Front Four. Kenny Smith: May struggle against very heavy linemen when defending the run. Otherwise he should be okay. Still hoping that Grady will get his act together so he can at least contribute 10+ plays every game to give the other two guys a breather. The coaches said he came in bigger/stronger/faster than last year but they didn\'t say how much bigger. If he put on 20lbs of muscle, he may not struggle against big linemen and may be a flat out stud. They implied that he turned heads. But If he only put on 5 lbs, well whoopty frickin\' doo. He\'ll be back at #3 DE by week 4.