Thank you, Sean Payton

Euphoria · 11-14-2007, 02:28 PM

I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great.

Playcalling shcplaycalling... its not just play calling its ADJUSTMENTS, which is the big picture. If something isn't working for you you have to make adjustments that means 'playcalling', 'personel', 'attitude', 'gameplan'. Its everything. That is were we have utterly failed this year. You should see a different team come out in the second half to counter what your opponets do and the Saints have not picked up on some of the things that are going on during the game. Even Payton has made mention of this. I totally agree being aggressive against some teams and score lots and often early and force your opponet out of there game plan to run with you, put them in a whole and make the fight out of it which will help create some turnovers.

What I saw in the Rams game is run blocking was perhaps the best I have seen all year from our Oline and the Pass protection was very week. The Saints didn't adjust and attack more on the run. Thats definately the coaching.

You also do have to scrap the run at times if you are behind in a game you got to pass. You'll run out of time running the ball. You can only run effectively when you are ahead.

stockman311 · 11-14-2007, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE=Euphoria;146374]I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great.
[QUOTE]

This is nonsense. You expect your first round pick to come in and contribute. I'm going to give you some numbers of another first round WR we drafted not named Colston. He went to the same school as Meachum, had similar combine numbers as Meachum and threw these numbers up in year 1:

Games - 13
REC - 42
YDS - 594
AVG - 14.1
LONG - 57
TD's - 8

His name was Donte Stallworth. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie and quite similar to what Colston did for us last year.
Take Meachums numbers in the same catagories for this year and they all add up to 0.
And your telling me I can't label the guy a bust.
As our friend Baba has pointed out, we don't exactly have a murderer's row at WR on this team. Outside of Colston what other WR would start anywhere else? I think were his words. And Meachum couldn't beat any of these guys out? Really? And I can't say this guy was a total waste of a pick and big time bust? F that. I'm saying it, because he was and is.

Euphoria · 11-14-2007, 03:48 PM

[QUOTE=stockman311;146384][QUOTE=Euphoria;146374]I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great.

This is nonsense. You expect your first round pick to come in and contribute. I'm going to give you some numbers of another first round WR we drafted not named Colston. He went to the same school as Meachum, had similar combine numbers as Meachum and threw these numbers up in year 1:

Games - 13
REC - 42
YDS - 594
AVG - 14.1
LONG - 57
TD's - 8

His name was Donte Stallworth. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie and quite similar to what Colston did for us last year.
Take Meachums numbers in the same catagories for this year and they all add up to 0.
And your telling me I can't label the guy a bust.
As our friend Baba has pointed out, we don't exactly have a murderer's row at WR on this team. Outside of Colston what other WR would start anywhere else? I think were his words. And Meachum couldn't beat any of these guys out? Really? And I can't say this guy was a total waste of a pick and big time bust? F that. I'm saying it, because he was and is.

No I expect a top 5 pick to come in and contribute on day 1, but anyone else eventually depending on the position they are playing.
There is a lot to learn at WR perhaps just as much as the QB position. Now don't get your panties in a wad... its generally, not everyone. People even labeled stallworth a buts after this dash with greatness his first year. We got rid of him... now look at him, about to snag with first ring and we are no closer than we have ever been.

I am not saying anything new this is typical WR drafting stuff. Yeah there are your exceptions here and there and we had a couple but for the most part you have to be careful with WR's. If Meachum didn't have potential he would have been cut like Pittman. Its much easier to cut a RB who may not pan out right away than it is a WR.

Again I can't call him a bust or success its to early.

iceshack149 · 11-14-2007, 05:28 PM

Road grater, soft hands, beast, fragile, fastest, genius, game changer, bust.
Everyone is so quick to label a player and it amuses me. A disappointing first round pick maybe but is he really a bust? He hasn't played a down in the regular season so he must be a bust. Silly. Let's watch him play NFL football awhile before we throw one of those ridiculous labels on him.

saints9 · 11-14-2007, 05:41 PM

[QUOTE=Euphoria;146390][QUOTE=stockman311;146384]

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great.

No I expect a top 5 pick to come in and contribute on day 1, but anyone else eventually depending on the position they are playing.
There is a lot to learn at WR perhaps just as much as the QB position. Now don't get your panties in a wad... its generally, not everyone. People even labeled stallworth a buts after this dash with greatness his first year. We got rid of him... now look at him, about to snag with first ring and we are no closer than we have ever been.

I am not saying anything new this is typical WR drafting stuff. Yeah there are your exceptions here and there and we had a couple but for the most part you have to be careful with WR's. If Meachum didn't have potential he would have been cut like Pittman. Its much easier to cut a RB who may not pan out right away than it is a WR.

Again I can't call him a bust or success its to early.

I'm not saying that Meachum is a bust, I have a feeling Meachum will be great, but why draft someone who can't help you now, in 2007. Meachum, was injuried, and Sean Payton, knew this, he could have drafted a line-backer or Chris Houston.

Bobaganoosh · 11-14-2007, 06:21 PM

I guess wasnt looking for athletical players and instead he got "sand-lock" football players.

FrenzyFan · 11-15-2007, 07:47 AM

I never thought this thread would get this much response. I started it because I was fed up with watching every pass play go downtown when the right thing to do in a blitz is to dump it short to the area of the field from which the blitz is coming from. After series after series of watching the exact same mistaken play calls on offense to the same unchanging blitzing on defense - leading to our eventual humiliation at the hands of the winless Rams, I was pretty ticked.

I can see Euphoria's point about the lack of adjustments. Normally I don't agree with much that he says, but in this case I found that he was saying the same thing I was - just in a different way. As an aside, I telephoned hell and it wasn't snowing there (but I had to check - j/k Euph!)

I never intended to bring draft decisions into the discussion, but since it was brought in by another poster to defend Payton's coaching, I'll say this. The draft is a crap-shoot. A team's picks can make the coaches and personnel staff look like geniuses and just as often, fools. I find this years decisions in the draft incomprehensible. Similarly, I was puzzled by last year's decisions considering they weren't critical needs to me (LB, LB, LB, and then a side-order of LB). With the turn-around of our team last year, and the amazing success of many of those picks everyone gives Payton and Co. a pass. It's hard to argue with performance, but honestly I haven't understood the Sean Payton's draft strategy in the last two years.

As to other semi-literate, sewage-spewing, etc. posters, I say "Don't feed the trolls" and hope that you all understand me.

11-14-2007, 02:28 PM	#1
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great. Playcalling shcplaycalling... its not just play calling its ADJUSTMENTS, which is the big picture. If something isn't working for you you have to make adjustments that means 'playcalling', 'personel', 'attitude', 'gameplan'. Its everything. That is were we have utterly failed this year. You should see a different team come out in the second half to counter what your opponets do and the Saints have not picked up on some of the things that are going on during the game. Even Payton has made mention of this. I totally agree being aggressive against some teams and score lots and often early and force your opponet out of there game plan to run with you, put them in a whole and make the fight out of it which will help create some turnovers. What I saw in the Rams game is run blocking was perhaps the best I have seen all year from our Oline and the Pass protection was very week. The Saints didn't adjust and attack more on the run. Thats definately the coaching. You also do have to scrap the run at times if you are behind in a game you got to pass. You'll run out of time running the ball. You can only run effectively when you are ahead.
	E U P H O R I A

11-14-2007, 03:22 PM	#2
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton [QUOTE=Euphoria;146374]I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great. [QUOTE] This is nonsense. You expect your first round pick to come in and contribute. I'm going to give you some numbers of another first round WR we drafted not named Colston. He went to the same school as Meachum, had similar combine numbers as Meachum and threw these numbers up in year 1: Games - 13 REC - 42 YDS - 594 AVG - 14.1 LONG - 57 TD's - 8 His name was Donte Stallworth. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie and quite similar to what Colston did for us last year. Take Meachums numbers in the same catagories for this year and they all add up to 0. And your telling me I can't label the guy a bust. As our friend Baba has pointed out, we don't exactly have a murderer's row at WR on this team. Outside of Colston what other WR would start anywhere else? I think were his words. And Meachum couldn't beat any of these guys out? Really? And I can't say this guy was a total waste of a pick and big time bust? F that. I'm saying it, because he was and is.

11-14-2007, 03:48 PM	#3
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton [QUOTE=stockman311;146384][QUOTE=Euphoria;146374]I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great. This is nonsense. You expect your first round pick to come in and contribute. I'm going to give you some numbers of another first round WR we drafted not named Colston. He went to the same school as Meachum, had similar combine numbers as Meachum and threw these numbers up in year 1: Games - 13 REC - 42 YDS - 594 AVG - 14.1 LONG - 57 TD's - 8 His name was Donte Stallworth. Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie and quite similar to what Colston did for us last year. Take Meachums numbers in the same catagories for this year and they all add up to 0. And your telling me I can't label the guy a bust. As our friend Baba has pointed out, we don't exactly have a murderer's row at WR on this team. Outside of Colston what other WR would start anywhere else? I think were his words. And Meachum couldn't beat any of these guys out? Really? And I can't say this guy was a total waste of a pick and big time bust? F that. I'm saying it, because he was and is. No I expect a top 5 pick to come in and contribute on day 1, but anyone else eventually depending on the position they are playing. There is a lot to learn at WR perhaps just as much as the QB position. Now don't get your panties in a wad... its generally, not everyone. People even labeled stallworth a buts after this dash with greatness his first year. We got rid of him... now look at him, about to snag with first ring and we are no closer than we have ever been. I am not saying anything new this is typical WR drafting stuff. Yeah there are your exceptions here and there and we had a couple but for the most part you have to be careful with WR's. If Meachum didn't have potential he would have been cut like Pittman. Its much easier to cut a RB who may not pan out right away than it is a WR. Again I can't call him a bust or success its to early.
	E U P H O R I A Last edited by Euphoria; 11-14-2007 at 03:50 PM..

11-14-2007, 05:28 PM	#4
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,368 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Road grater, soft hands, beast, fragile, fastest, genius, game changer, bust. Everyone is so quick to label a player and it amuses me. A disappointing first round pick maybe but is he really a bust? He hasn't played a down in the regular season so he must be a bust. Silly. Let's watch him play NFL football awhile before we throw one of those ridiculous labels on him.

11-14-2007, 05:41 PM	#5
saints9 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 38	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton [QUOTE=Euphoria;146390][QUOTE=stockman311;146384] Originally Posted by Euphoria I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great. No I expect a top 5 pick to come in and contribute on day 1, but anyone else eventually depending on the position they are playing. There is a lot to learn at WR perhaps just as much as the QB position. Now don't get your panties in a wad... its generally, not everyone. People even labeled stallworth a buts after this dash with greatness his first year. We got rid of him... now look at him, about to snag with first ring and we are no closer than we have ever been. I am not saying anything new this is typical WR drafting stuff. Yeah there are your exceptions here and there and we had a couple but for the most part you have to be careful with WR's. If Meachum didn't have potential he would have been cut like Pittman. Its much easier to cut a RB who may not pan out right away than it is a WR. Again I can't call him a bust or success its to early. I'm not saying that Meachum is a bust, I have a feeling Meachum will be great, but why draft someone who can't help you now, in 2007. Meachum, was injuried, and Sean Payton, knew this, he could have drafted a line-backer or Chris Houston.
saints9 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 38

11-14-2007, 06:21 PM	#6
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton I guess wasnt looking for athletical players and instead he got "sand-lock" football players.

11-15-2007, 07:47 AM	#7
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton I never thought this thread would get this much response. I started it because I was fed up with watching every pass play go downtown when the right thing to do in a blitz is to dump it short to the area of the field from which the blitz is coming from. After series after series of watching the exact same mistaken play calls on offense to the same unchanging blitzing on defense - leading to our eventual humiliation at the hands of the winless Rams, I was pretty ticked. I can see Euphoria's point about the lack of adjustments. Normally I don't agree with much that he says, but in this case I found that he was saying the same thing I was - just in a different way. As an aside, I telephoned hell and it wasn't snowing there (but I had to check - j/k Euph!) I never intended to bring draft decisions into the discussion, but since it was brought in by another poster to defend Payton's coaching, I'll say this. The draft is a crap-shoot. A team's picks can make the coaches and personnel staff look like geniuses and just as often, fools. I find this years decisions in the draft incomprehensible. Similarly, I was puzzled by last year's decisions considering they weren't critical needs to me (LB, LB, LB, and then a side-order of LB). With the turn-around of our team last year, and the amazing success of many of those picks everyone gives Payton and Co. a pass. It's hard to argue with performance, but honestly I haven't understood the Sean Payton's draft strategy in the last two years. As to other semi-literate, sewage-spewing, etc. posters, I say "Don't feed the trolls" and hope that you all understand me.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg