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Pat Kirwan believes that the..

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Welcome to B&G, thanks for agreeing with my earlier post on Shockey and nice mug-shot. Our defense couldn't get off the field because, well, I'll just let Euphoria introduce himself to you... LOL...

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Old 05-01-2008, 01:49 PM   #21
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Welcome to B&G, thanks for agreeing with my earlier post on Shockey and nice mug-shot.

Our defense couldn't get off the field because, well, I'll just let Euphoria introduce himself to you... LOL
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Old 05-01-2008, 01:49 PM   #22
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Originally Posted by jewagr007 View Post
Ok Guys and Gals,

Lets break this down. Johnson and Miller both are classified as balanced/hands TE's not blocking TE's. Miller has better hands and speed where Johnson is a bigger target and runs better routes. While Johnson is better at pass/run blocking than Miller...neither are consistant enough to get the job done in that area. We are not even going to discuss Campbell...mute point. Even though these TE's are considered to be better receivers than blockers they can still be covered by most if not all LB's in the business. This leaves Safeties free to roam to head hunt our receivers.
Shockey on the other hand is a more balanced TE that has decent route running skill, great hands and can block on a more consistent basis than all three of our current TE's. Shockey will draw constant attention up the middle from either strong or free safety and will open up the corner and fade routes down the sidelines. Why do you think Plaxico had some many long TD's this season down the sidelines.

I will concur that Johnson was ranked 11th and Shockey only 8th but you have to look at the whole picture. With our receivers double covered the majority of time leaving LB's to cover Johnson/Miller it is a no brainer for Brees to throw the TE route when he is in man-on-man with a LB. The only problem is is that those passes where being dropped to often or being batted by the LB. Throw Shockey in the mix and that pulls safety help in the middle leaving one-on-one coverage on one of the receivers. Another thing this could force is more defense's to play us in Zone coverage instead on Man-to-Man and this meens less blitzes and softer coverage. We all know what Brees will do with that combination.
I do not believe that the FO would have drafted a TE even if the Shockey trade was completely dead due to the fact that no TE on the board at the round 2 spot would have given them a definite upgrade over Johnson or Miller. You don't draft for position unless it is a need or you can guarantee an upgrade over current players.
This being said I think Shockey would be a good addition but not necessary unless the price is right. You have to remember that he will require a large contract to keep him and there is this little thing called a salary cap that the FO has to deal with also. Will Smith is wanting a contract negotiation and given the choice over paying Shockey or Smith...I'll take Smith any day. Best Offense is a good Defense. Our offense is strong if they can get on the field. The defense could not get off the field last year due to a poor secondary. Fix this hole first...then tweek the rest.
Welcome abord jewagr007. Great first post. The guys/gals on this board are great.

I agree, Shockey would be a great addition. I don't think we are going to get him though. I would be suprised if he isn't in a Giant uniform this season. Maybe we can trade our RT (Poopcomb msp?) and a 5th for him. That might make since.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:30 PM   #23
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

What's up with all the Mark Campbell hate? He was injured last year, is that why he's an "F" or why he's been dismissed in posts?

The Saints run game was doing poorly before Deuce's injury last year. The difference between the 2006 offense and the 2007 offense was that Campbell wasn't playing. He's no Shockey in terms of talent but I think that Campbell deserves a little credit.


The question is this: how much better do we need to be on Offense to win the big game? If the answer is "not very much" then I don't see a critical need to upgrade at TE. If the answer is "a lot", then an upgrade at TE might be something very important.
I believe that the answer is "not very much". Shockey would be an upgrade but the Saints shouldn't break the bank on him.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:39 PM   #24
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

he is not here and I am banking he does not get here this year. Let him drive himself out of NY on his own. Then pick him up. Ice is right he is not worth the price they were asking.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:46 PM   #25
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

i disagree...i think on a talent and consistancy standpoint he has been atop the NFL for the past few years and has been consistantly showing up on film and game highlights...theres a reason for that...he has the talent to step into the saints organization and become an immediate upgrade....an immediate favorite target...payton is a master of the short pass offense....the best target for that is a TE....thats why colston flourished here....he is huge....he is strong..and he can catch like the dickens...if he gets hit the ball isnt coming out...shockey has similar traits in that he can take a hit from a linebacker as he's going over the middle for his bajillionth catch of the season

"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:29 PM   #26
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Originally Posted by iceshack149 View Post
What's up with all the Mark Campbell hate? He was injured last year, is that why he's an "F" or why he's been dismissed in posts?

The Saints run game was doing poorly before Deuce's injury last year. The difference between the 2006 offense and the 2007 offense was that Campbell wasn't playing. He's no Shockey in terms of talent but I think that Campbell deserves a little credit.




I believe that the answer is "not very much". Shockey would be an upgrade but the Saints shouldn't break the bank on him.
That's a good point about Campbell. He was hurt last year.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:55 PM   #27
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Shockey and Johnson werent to many catches apart. Johnson was ranked 11th in receptions but if you look at yardage he is alot closer to Miller.
Shockey is ranked 7th in yardage and 8th in receptions. Johnson is 11th in receptions and 24th in yardage compared with Miller at 26th in yardage.
Johnson caught 21 more passes and gained 50 more yards than Miller.
Johnson plays a role in the passing game similiar to Bush, sit at the line of scrimage and be a dump-off for Brees. Not much of a downfield threat from Johnson, but he woulda been productive in the redzone had he caught a couple of those passes in the endzone.
Not much of a difference Shockey had 619 yds with 10.9 avg.
Johnson caught alot of balls 378 yds with a 7.9 avg. I guess the biggest difference is Shockey gets a 1st down and with Johnson we get to line up our powerback R Bush on 2nd and 2, 3rd and 2, punt.
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Old 05-02-2008, 01:12 AM   #28
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Factors to consider in all this...

One, Shockey was most productive as a Rookie, when, yep, Sean Peyton was calling the plays...

Two, Shockey will be out to prove he's a team player and that he can be a reason for a Super Bowl Championship...

Three, Shockey did not attend ceremonies to receive the SuperBowl Champion Giants at the White House...

Four, The Chad Johnson situation, despite how ridiculous Drew Rosenhaus' client has looked, has been a nightmare for the Bengals must give Giants Jerry Reese pause to deal with Rosenhaus' client on his team...

Five, As good as Mark Campbell is (and make no mistake that the TE is the difference between a good and great running game) has missed significant playing time in his career...

Six, if Reggie Bush is going to jump to the next level of a producer like Brian Westbrook, the TE is going to have to aid in spreading the field...

Lastly, whether on or off the field, Saints Marketing knows this...

Shockey draws a crowd.

I submit the attention given to the Shockey threads in this forum as evidence...

It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:09 PM   #29
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

He does sell tickets and get the cameras turned thats for sure. Good point. Always nice to add national media draw to the team. Saints vs. Gaints NFC championship game? Shockey would be heck of a story line for them to run into the ground
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:33 PM   #30
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Re: Pat Kirwan believes that the..

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 View Post
Welcome to B&G, thanks for agreeing with my earlier post on Shockey and nice mug-shot.

Our defense couldn't get off the field because, well, I'll just let Euphoria introduce himself to you... LOL
HA, funny. I won't rough him up to bad since he is a newbie also he's from Houma where I was born and raised.

Shockey has been nothing but a locker room cancer. They didn't need him to win the SB last year so why the hell do we need him to win one? He'll be more of a distraction.

If the Giants want to move him so bad here is a 4th. You don't like it then cut him. So he doesn't show up to camp - again. He'll show up to play in games and then the Giants will be left with the fear of him walking into the dressing room. Have fun Giants. Now I am ok if he shows up for camp and doesn't bring the BS. But our team has shown there has to be consistancy and gel in order to win. Hince why we go on winning streaks and losing streaks.

E U P H O R I A
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