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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I'm going to say this....Brown is not an All-Pro!!! He made one Pro Bowl while riding the hype of the saints best season ever. By the way...he also leads the team in penalties by an offensive lineman. So...yes he's a ...
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#1 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
I'm going to say this....Brown is not an All-Pro!!! He made one Pro Bowl while riding the hype of the saints best season ever. By the way...he also leads the team in penalties by an offensive lineman. So...yes he's a good RT, but Strief would be a better LT IMO.
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#2 |
1000 Posts +
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
how can an unproven tackle start over a pro-bowler...it doesnt matter if he made it only one year....he earned it....dont hate on a saint dude...streif is a back up and a good one..but hes a backup....u can use the games he got to play as an example but not a whole argument...he hasnt shown consistency much like brown....while offsides are inexcusable.....his penalties were not detrimental to the outcome of the game...thats easily fixed and thats a terrible thing to rip on somebody....thats like saying jason davids biggest concern is holding the recievers....brown doesnt have many...if ne question marks with his blocking....the sacks came off of blitzes and yes...some linemen sacks but the saints got taken advantage of...we didnt expect so much pressure from defenses that early in the season...we adjusted and it fixed the problem
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"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd
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#3 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Originally Posted by CantonLegend
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Unproven? How's this for proof? Strief anchored his college offensive line for 3 years. In his starts in the pros, he allowed less sacks, less tackles behind the line of scrimmage, & had less penalties per game than J. Brown. He's also a much better run blocker. Now...if all you can use is the term unproven in regards to starting time, everyone in the NFL is unproven at one time or another. As for the "we didn't expect so much pressure from defenses that early in the season" excuse....dude, it's the NFL! As a starting offensive lineman, you should expect pressure from opposing defenses EVERY game. That's just a poor excuse for bad play. I'm not saying Brown is horrible. He's not. I'm saying he's a better fit at RT where he could actually be an elite RT (especially with help from J'Hari Evans at his side). I've been to just about every home game for the last 4 years & I'm telling you....Strief has performed better at LT than Brown in his starts. I know you're on the "I love J. Brown" train, but watch the games & you will see what a few of us are trying to tell you. |
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#4 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Originally Posted by gandhi1007
I like Jammal brown and i think he is a good LT....he is not elite...but he is worthy of starting at LT....for some reason u are obsessed with strief...he may start at RT this year but brown has earned his position....and dude..ne body except stinch can do a great job with jahri over there...lol thats silly....jahri is great....the fact that they got blitzed like no other is not an excuse...its just lack of communication and may have caused his false starts...hmm?...if u get overloaded on one side its more likely u'll jump?...it is true however....later in the season we had better protection because we anticipated the blitz on the left....we have a great line and switching too many players around could mess up the gel we have...why fix something that isnt broken?
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"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd
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#5 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Originally Posted by CantonLegend
Let me get this straight..... You've gone from "Brown is a premiere LT" to "he is not elite". Huh? Is this the Okey-Doke or what? Dude....I'm done. ![]()
P.S.- No one is obsessed with Strief. I do however have my opinion that he is a better fit at LT than Brown. That opinion is based on actually being at the games & watching what takes place on the field....not what stats & accolades I read on any one player. For instance...Emmitt Smith is the NFL's all time leading rusher. Do I believe he was better than Walter Payton or Barry Sanders? HELL NO!!!! I watched all of them play & I can tell you that Emmitt couldn't hold a candle to those two. But....if you go by blind stats, Emmitt is supposedly the best of all times, right? Hmmmm.... |
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#6 |
LB Mentallity
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
He is a good LT but by no means a premiere LT. He would be a premiere RT teamed with Evans.
If the back ups develop it may be a good idea to see what kind of picks we can get for him. But for the love of God make sure first. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
The most penalties on the OL! That is an interesting stat. What year did Riley play for us? I can't imagine he didn't have the most penalties that season.
Ghandi, I enjoyed your post. I have two question before I buy your argument (which I am close to buying): (1) Don't most sacks come off the left side of the Offense? That is, it would be helpful to know the number of sacks the Saints left side allowed when compared to (at least) other teams. (2) If it is more difficult to play LT than RT (which I currently believe), isn't it more likely to garner more penalites at LT than a roughly equally skilled RT? That is, don't most teams LTs have the most penalties for any player on the OL (barring the dirty players who tend to get flagged more)? Here, again, it would be helpful to know (a) if Brown has signifcantly more penalties than other LTs, and (b) if LTs in general have the most penalites of any position on the OL. I'm certainly willing to concede that Brown is an average starting LT in this league, but that would put him at the roughly the 16th best LT in the world. Not too shabby. |
"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks
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#8 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Originally Posted by JKool
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Of course the LT position is the tougher of the two OT positions....this is true. However...they do not necessarily garner the most penalties. See the Kansas City offensive lines when Roaf (a real elite LT) was there. RG was actually the most penalized on that team believe it or not. I'm not saying that Brown is the worst....he's not. He's average for the position. What I am saying is that in the games I've seen, Strief outperformed him. That's all. A few of us have been saying for a while now...."What if we moved Brown back to RT & started Strief at LT?" Now....that would be wonderful. Of course, I am not Sean Payton, so I may never see that. But....I honestly believe from what I've seen on the field that the OL would be more solid. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Here's some stats that confirm Gandi's claim about the left side being worse than the right side.
SI.com - NFL - Sortable Team Offensive Line Stats - Individual Leaders These stats are fairly broad strokes though. Does anyone know where I can get more precise statistics for the OL? |
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#10 |
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Re: Whats wrong with Brown?
Gandi, thanks for the point about KCs line. That is interesting. I'm not sure that it counts as usual, but it is something to go from.
Fine points about Strief's performance. If he has grown to be better than Brown at LT, then I'm all for giving him a shot - I hope our coaches at least give him a chance to show what he can do (and don't simply consider the LT spot Brown's). I'll certainly agree that last year wasn't Brown's best, but thankfully the learning curve shallow and the duration of careers at T in the NFL are long. Brown could still get much better. There is also good evidence that he is, in fact, quite good. I'm a bit confused about the "proven player" arguments. By this reasoning, no new player would ever unseat a starter from the previous year - that is not the case, so "proven player" arguments only get you so far. Brown should be evaluated on his merits (which I think are plenty), but that doesn't mean an "unproven" player, like Strief, couldn't be better suited for the position. This is an interesting discussion. I think several good points have been made on both sides. Myself, I don't think it much matters how good Brown is (with respect to being elite, or any other name); I'm more interested in understanding whether our coaches are making good decisions in keeping him at LT, rather than moving him over to RT. |
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