JKool

Wow, that was a lot to read. You guys have been busy!

I think 504 does raise some interesting points, even if he expresses them at "DefCon1" (I liked that).

Here are some related points:

(1) Every team improves in the offseason, so we must improve more than simple improvement. Strictly speaking, I think that is false. Every year people say this after FA and the draft, like we were supposed to do something other teams can't? It is safe to say that the draft has to address areas of weakness from the previous year, loss of vetrans through FA, and the deterioration of current players. The goal is to get a team that is a little better than the competition and one that fits with the coaching goals/strategies, nothing more.

(2) There is a bit to much hatin' on Reggie. Look, if Reggie Bush isn't a quality backup in the NFL, then who is? No, he is not a Duece, but so what?

(3) This stuff about the TE is starting to dizzy me. Teams can run without a TE on the field. Also, with a good short passing game a ton of pressure can be taken off the running game. I mean, hasn't anyone heard of a three WR set? Also, I'm sure everyone has seen teams send in an OL to play TE at the goal line. Simply put: a great TE would be a nice upgrade, but gosh do you have to have a great player at every position to win a SB? No. Remember David was a starter on a SB team, and no one around here wouldn't like an upgrade at his position.

(4) As a thought experiment, try this: imagine we had two star players at every position, would you then be concerned that we don't have three at every position? If the answer is yes, then how can anyone make you feel better about what we have on the field? If the answer is no, then consider the idea that teams in the NFL exhibit a lot of parity - the challenge is to come up with strategies to defeat your opponents, not simply have more "elite" players (not that that hurts). Consider when Payton finally figured out how to neutralize Vick (send the nickle blitz!) - we did that with some pretty bad CBs, but we set the standard for taking Vick's "game changing ability" out of the equation. Not great players - great coaching.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

praglen

It was meachem in a wwl interview. He said that he is working out with MM in memphis and that MM was already working on his backpedal.

I recall Payton talked about his progress, too, in a recent interview. I'll track that down...

CantonLegend

oh my bad.....

the team doesnt need an upgrade at the TE position but in our offense a TE could be a valuable asset....i like the idea of moving patten to the slot in the 3 wide sets but the idea of a TE is to go over the middle...they need to be able to take a hit and still retain possession....little patten doesnt quite have the size and strenght to get beaten by a linebacker over the middle play after play....plus a lot of the hype at TE comes from the shockey ordeal...i dont think we need a TE but because it was so widely publicized that he could come to us it suddenly became a need position....agreed u dont need a great player at every position but in our offense a TE would be more than valuable....almost essential if we landed a good one

"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

hagan714

If you mortgage anything right now it is defense not on the offensive side of the ball.

I will take a solid #2 WR right now over any TE right now. That is more important right now.

CantonLegend

actually i believe thats what we drafted meachem for, is it not?....as for the WR position...drew is talented enough to make nebody who can catch a good player....colston might not have been able to prosper as much somewhere else...drew got him the ball and he has blossomed...i think we have a lot of depth at WR and now with meachem coming in healthy we will have an even better core at wideout

hagan714

Depth? what depth? Have you looked at their numbers from the last 2 years?
I am not sold on the supposed depth at WR. I say we need a another top notch WR before anything else on the offensive side of the ball. Mech will need time to develop and if/when he is ready to take over (2 to 3 years) Patten will be retiring. Then what scamble? Lets make it truly solid now.
If not WR then go defense (WLB). Follow that by a mid level RB for a year if needed. Then talk to me about TE. We are over blowing our need for a TE here.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

CantonLegend

with all the hype from everyone(myself included) we have blown the need for TE out of proportion....i agree....a CB or safety or even LB is much more important to help our team out now than a TE of ne magnitude

504Highlander

I like that too !

Let's drop down to DefCon5 for a mo.

Like all of you on this site, I love the Saints and only wish the best for the team, as well as the city.

I grew up playing rugby and the 'other' football !! You know, the one where you use your foot ! And as a result, my opinions are based much more on impressions and not stats.

SFIAH and others are quite knowledgeable about the game to a degree that probably I never will be.

I became rather Saints-obsessed in 06 and 07, and had saved many of the games from both seasons on DVR.

I noticed that the 06 Saints O, had an amazing balance and were difficult to defend. With Deuce, Reggie, Carney, Colston all on the field together, defenses were unable to take anything away.

Think 07 Pats. The 06 Saints O were more like the Pats. Not exactly the same, but heading in that direction.

The 07 Saints O were much easier to defend and they were shut down several times.

This 06 balance is what I would like to recapture. The missing ingredient is Deuce.

This accounts for my RB concerns. Deuce is still hurt and is very fragile and IMO really should sit out 08 to get healthy.

Take a look at 06 Saints/Eagles. Deuce takes 8 minutes off the clock and Saints win at home.
Take a look at 07 Saints/Eagles. 1st and goal, we can't punch it in and we turn over on downs. We lost the game.


My TE concerns go way back to the great Hoby Brenner, remember him?
Hoby was a bruising, blocking TE who, every now and then, went out for a pass. But if I remember correctly, was great on short yardage and goal-line situations.

I don't believe any of the TE's we have currently, have such skills.

I do like Miller and feel that he deserves a spot on the roster. But I hoped that the Saints would look at a couple of 6'7" beasts for TE's. UDFA's maybe.


Here is how I see the secondary. This tier of the D needs professional help!
Better coaching would be a good start. Also, the rookies need veteran guidance.

This staff has done a great job of some things and a lousy job of others.
However, they have made big mistakes in the process of trying to get better, wasting money and failing to effectively upgrade.

But the problems are so bad, that urgent starting help is needed, if the team is to win now.

There are so many DB's on the roster, but no real starters, except for MM, who may not be available.

I was praying that they would bring in Sammy Knight to help mentor Harper and Bullocks. The Giants signed Knight.

I was hoping we might get Sheppard or even Hall, who could both start right now.

Oh well, it's just a game - right ??

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

JKool

See, I just don't agree with that. Otherwise, I am pretty much interested in what is being said.

I do remember Hoby. However, I don't remember him really ever catching more than 30-40 passes a year. Not exactly a "threat." If we just need a big old grinder at TE, then why not put Strief or Stinch out there on the end?

The TE is not the key to our running game, it is Karney and he's fine.

Also, I'm on board with an upgrade at TE, but I just don't see it as a glaring need.

Also, as just a quick point, we did bring in some DBs, and I can't help but agree that an improved front seven will improve the secondary.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

hagan714

Hoby Brenner was a lunch pail type of guy. Love them types

Thats what Billy Miller does for us. I do not see why he is getting knocked so bad on his blocking. Last year everyone was surprised he could catch the ball too. Maybe I am bias a bit towards him. I liked him back when he was with Houston. In 2002 he had 51 catches for 613 and 3 scores. In 2003 he had 40 catches for 355 and 3 tds. The texans went out and picked up a bunch of TEs in 2004 and 2005 to replace Miller. Miller has an off year and gets released after dealing with a hamstring problem. Not till Owens Daniels did they have a TE to match those numbers. Even then it was 2007 when Billy's numbers were eclipsed by Owen.

Ending up in the pit of Cleveland for the 2005 season, he appearers in only 3 games before getting cut. He was brought in as a blocking TE. Lingering hamstring problems are rumored to be the underlined issue. So he sits and rehabs and the saints pick him up.

There, I thought some history on him might help shed some light on the Guy. The Saints are just starting to learn how he can fit into this offense. 27 catches for 328 and 2 scores is just scratching the surface of what he can do for us in this system. He is the last guy on the defensive hit list. He should be open all day long. As far as his blocking goes he is consistent. What more do want? Above average hands and above average blocking. Runs like a Clydesdale. he is a TE for crying out loud. LOL

For the money he is getting and the play he provides he is a bargain by any measurement you want. Ok he is not glamorous or a high light reel ready to happen but he is a solid TE that is very under rated by the fans and the media. He is an old school lunch pail type of player like Brenner. They never get the press. But those are the guys that win you games and championships.

As for Johnson I wish he could block as well. The poor guy has to live up to this history of an game changing TE. Well I am still waiting too. He has good enough hands to stick and be considered an impact TE but I think the game changing days are behind him. Maybe he has a few left. who knows.

That leaves Mark Campbell at the ripe age 32 is a solid vet but alas he is heading to the lower forty real soon. A couple more years maybe. He is your big guy.

Lets face some facts here this position is getting long in the tooth and youth is needed. They will be a solid rotation for another 2 to 3 years then I say we are in a place of desperate need. I have been hoping for a pet project or two for the past 2 years in the later rounds and each year that round has gotten higher. Next year a 3 or 5 is were on the priority list I think this position will fall. 1 and 2 will be defensive again.

So I agree a move is needed but there is not a big rush needed. Just not yet. Do not pull out a second mortgage on the team for this position. Just not yet. That would be stupid. We are not there as a team yet. That is a luxury move we can ill afford right now.

"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins