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TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan If you have a defense that can shut down opponents, then that strategy is fine. While our defense will be improved, its success will hinge as much on the offense's ability to put up points in ...

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Old 05-18-2008, 04:46 PM   #1
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan View Post
If you have a defense that can shut down opponents, then that strategy is fine. While our defense will be improved, its success will hinge as much on the offense's ability to put up points in a hurry and make the opponent 1 dimensional. I agree that we could use some "meat" in the backfield, but both Stecker and PT are capable of taking carries between the tackles and I think you will see a more patient Reggie this year. Keep in mind that you do not have to be 230-240 lbs to effectively run the ball between the tackles. I think we have the things that you are looking for. Periement runners (Reggie), B/t the tackles (Deuce, PT, Stecker), Recieving TEs (Johnson, Miller), Blocking tight ends (Miller, Campbell). I hear you on the injury concerns but keep in mind that the ball will be spread around for the RBs as will the snaps for the TEs. We arent asking Deuce to pound the ball 25-30 times a game. We arent asking Johnson hold his blocking point of attack on a trick knee for 40 snaps a game. Our offense finished 4th in the league last season. We add some experience to PT and Reggie. We get a even somewhat healthy Deuce back. We get Meachem playing time. If we finished 4th last season, the pieces are in place for us to finish in the Top 5 again this year as we have all what we had last year plus more.

Also, our bad start last year was a result of more than an ineffective, between the tackle run game. Drew was not playing as well. Our defense forced our offense to play from behind, thus limiting our run game. And our schedule was not a cake walk by any means in the first 3 games.

The 08 schedule is tougher than 07 !

The opponents have upgraded. What have we done.

07 TE's Sucked
07 RB's Sucked ( Not PT )
07 DB's Sucked

08 TE Same
08 RB Same
08 DB Same ( Plus more rookies / old vets )

The only bona fide upgrade has been Ellis and McCray. This will help somewhat. But against elite teams ??

We have to do more. RB / TE / DB still a weakness that teams will exploit.
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Old 05-18-2008, 04:52 PM   #2
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Originally Posted by 504Highlander View Post
We have to do more. RB / TE / DB still a weakness that teams will exploit.
You are overrating the TE position so much.

We have had top 5 offenses with out a TE.. TE is definitely not a need. It would be nice, but not a need.

Not to mention we had the 5th overall offense with out a consistent rushing game.. Deuce will be back, and that will help Reggie out as well. Look at 2006 for some examples

DB is also still an issue... but with our newly acquired pass rushing players, it should help out the DB's. they won't be one-on-one with the WR for a day and a half now..

Look at the big picture..

[IMG]http://i31.tinypic.com/2ug1202.jpg[/IMG]
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Old 05-18-2008, 04:59 PM   #3
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Originally Posted by 504Highlander View Post
The 08 schedule is tougher than 07 !

The opponents have upgraded. What have we done.
lol all i can do is laugh at this...



The only bona fide upgrade has been Ellis and McCray. This will help somewhat. But against elite teams ??
Vilma... does that ring a bell?


We have to do more. RB / TE / DB still a weakness that teams will exploit.

we have solid depth at RB, i dont know why ur still harping on this...

TEs are servicable... with all the other talent on offense, this is really a position of luxury.. not a need...

we have good depth at CB and with an improved pass rush, this area should be much improved...




im really not understanding the point ur trying to make... we have solid depth at every position ur are talking about... im not saying they are all superstars but your ARENT going to have that at every position...

we have upgraded every major need this past offseason and the saints should be one of the dominant teams in the NFC for quite awhile

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Old 05-18-2008, 05:15 PM   #4
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Vilma... does that ring a bell?
Let's talk about him when he actually takes the field and not before.


we have solid depth at RB, i dont know why ur still harping on this...
Losing Deuce in 07 severely hampered our O. We don't have him back yet and probably won't for 08. Can you say 'microfracture surgery'?

TEs are servicable... with all the other talent on offense, this is really a position of luxury.. not a need...
Serviceable skill position players make it tough to get a team to the SB. TE's are key positions for Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Broncos. All of those teams have been to the SB

we have good depth at CB and with an improved pass rush, this area should be much improved...
More rookies and old veteran players do not equal better on the field production.
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Old 05-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 504Highlander View Post
Let's talk about him when he actually takes the field and not before.

why not? he is arguably the best LB the saints have had in over 5 or 6 years... just b/c he hasnt suited up for the saints yet doesnt mean a thing...



Losing Deuce in 07 severely hampered our O. We don't have him back yet and probably won't for 08. Can you say 'microfracture surgery'?
yes i can.. but obviously you dont keep up with recent news... since he is already running and will be ready for training camp...


Serviceable skill position players make it tough to get a team to the SB. TE's are key positions for Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Broncos. All of those teams have been to the SB
chargers havent been to the SB in 10 or 15 years.. the colts also have payton manning, marvin harrison, reggie wayne, an awesome Oline, and a very fast and punishing defense... the steelers made it to the SB with a good defense and a great running game.. the broncos had john elway and terrell davis.. as well as a beast of an Oline..


what about the patriots, or eagles? or seahawks? or bears? none of those teams had really great TEs, yet still made the superbowl...

my point is we dont need an awesome TE to make the SB, it is a luxury, not a need... i would love to have gotten shockey, i think he would have made our offense even more unstoppable.. but it wasnt a need..


More rookies and old veteran players do not equal better on the field production.
no but experience and learning the system does...

Originally Posted by 504Highlander View Post
No, I meant real TE's, that can block in the running game as well as catch in the passing game.
besides Eric Johnson, the TEs we have are better blockers then pass catchers...




Deuce 6'1" / 230lbs.

Matt Forte 6'2" / 232lbs, over 2300 yards rushing in one season.

I don't have Matt Forte listed as a Scat Back.

Matt Forte
Height: 6-1
Weight: 224 lbs.

and he isnt the bruiser that his height an weight suggest.. he is more of a finesse back then pounder

4 back to back games with over 1000 yards rushing.

against Memphis, Army, UAB, and Southern Methodist

thats almost impressive... he had 73 yards against a real defense when they played LSU... 43 when they played Miss St...

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Last edited by pakowitz; 05-18-2008 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:00 PM   #6
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
why not? he is arguably the best LB the saints have had in over 5 or 6 years... just b/c he hasnt suited up for the saints yet doesnt mean a thing...
I will comment on Vilma and his repaired knee after training camp


Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
yes i can.. but obviously you dont keep up with recent news... since he is already running and will be ready for training camp...
I confess that I am not a doctor, but after reading articles online about other players who have had this procedure done, it seems to be common for the recovery to take from one to two years.



Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
chargers havent been to the SB in 10 or 15 years.. the colts also have payton manning, marvin harrison, reggie wayne, an awesome Oline, and a very fast and punishing defense... the steelers made it to the SB with a good defense and a great running game.. the broncos had john elway and terrell davis.. as well as a beast of an Oline..


what about the patriots, or eagles? or seahawks? or bears? none of those teams had really great TEs, yet still made the superbowl...
Did you watch the Saints play the Colts and Bears in 06 and 07? Dallas Clark and Ben Utecht for the Colts and Desmond Clark and Greg Olsen for the Bears.
They killed the Saints!!

Gonzalez/Chiefs, Gates/Chargers, Daniels/Texans, Scheffler/Broncos, Witten/Cowboys, Ben Watson and Kyle Brady/Pats, JerramyStevens/Seahawks, LJ Smith(Franchise Tag)/Eagles, Kevin Boss and Jeremy Shockey/NYG, et cetera, et cetera.

Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
my point is we dont need an awesome TE to make the SB, it is a luxury, not a need... i would love to have gotten shockey, i think he would have made our offense even more unstoppable.. but it wasnt a need..
Don't you want the Saints to win ???


Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
no but experience and learning the system does...
The Eagles get it, the Raiders get it, the Cowboys get it. CB talent is rare and when you have an opportunity to get it - you get it !!!

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
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Old 05-18-2008, 06:18 PM   #7
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Re: TE RB and DB Still an issue for Saints

Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
Matt Forte
Height: 6-1
Weight: 224 lbs.

and he isnt the bruiser that his height an weight suggest.. he is more of a finesse back then pounder
He is listed now at 6'2" 232lbs. Which listing is more accurate?




Originally Posted by pakowitz View Post
against Memphis, Army, UAB, and Southern Methodist

thats almost impressive... he had 73 yards against a real defense when they played LSU... 43 when they played Miss St...
If you downgrade the defenses he played, then you should also factor in the talent of his own team-mates at Tulane. I don't think his O-Line was invited to the Senior Bowl.
But he was invited to the Senior Bowl and was named Offensive MVP.

Apparently, the Bears thought more highly of his abilities than you do.
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