WhoDat

OK Saintfan - I hear where you\'re coming from, I just think it\'s wrong. It\'s got nothing to do with my take on Brooks.

You and Billy seem to want to credit BROOKS for scoring 30+ points a game last season when in fact it was the SAINTS who scored all those points. I will agree that Brooks probably had more direct control over that than say Bentley or Turley, but I don\'t know if you can say he had a greater affect on it than th WRs, Deuce, or McCarthy. I mean, are we to credit Trent Green with scoring all those points for KC, or is Priest Holmes more responsible? Fiedler in Miami, or Ricky? Johnson in Tampa, or was it Gruden\'s system that really began to kick in in the playoffs?

Crediting Brooks for that is like saying, \"David Sloan is a great tightend. Why? B/c the Saints scored 30+ points a game last season.\" No, you evaluate Sloan based on HIS performance compared to other players at the SAME position - not based on how the TEAM played. It works both ways too. I used PLummer as an example in my last post to show how a team can hurt a player\'s stats. Archie is another good example.

The point is, in order to evaluate a plaer you compare him to his counterparts. That\'s what every NFL scout, coach, GM, etc. does. I\'m not comparing Brooks to past QBs, or comparing one year to another. I can\'t think of anything more fair than comparing him in 2002 (his best year so far mind you) to the other top 30 QBs in the league during the same season. (by the way - if teams statistics is all that matter he can\'t be higher than 12th, b/c we didn\'t make the playoffs).

I\'m not saying Brooks is a BAD qb. I think he\'s average - physically gifted, but a poor manager of the game. My beef is still what I perceive to be a mismatch of styles. He is not fitted for our offense. Just look at the other QBs like him. They are the only, or one of two, weapons on their team.

McNabb - He\'s it in Philly unless you want to count Duce.
Vick - He was it until Price came along
Culpepper - He and Moss are it
Carter - He got the job b/c the offense in Dallas is without play-makers
Blake - Unless Boldin keeps playing like he did last week, Blake is it in Zona.
Stewart - If you want to call Booker a weapon then he has Booker.

Now, consider the type of quarterback that the teams like ours have - teams with lots of weapons or a similar system - they\'re drop-back, efficient, physically unspectacular, game managers.

Oakland - Gannon
St. Louis - Warner/Bulger
Pittsburgh - Maddox
Buffalo - Bledsoe
Jets - Pennington
New England - Brady
Seattle - Hassleback
Indianapolis - Manning

Now c\'mon. Are you going to tell me that Brooks belongs on the guys at the bottom more than the guys at the top? We are forcing him to be something he isn\'t to fit our system. Everyone on the board is complaing about him not running anymore. It\'s not a matter of whether Brooks is good or not - look at some of the best QBs in the league right now and you\'ll see that they didn\'t get that way until they found the right system.

I\'m not in favor of benching him now, no, but I do thin kthat the Saints need to pursue other options at quarterback. I don\'t know how you don\'t see this. Is it just me guys? Am I missing something? Am I nuts? B/c this seems blatantly obvious to me. The meaningful stats that are used to compare quarterbacks put him average at best, he\'s the only QB in the league of his type playing in a system like ours, and you two can\'t see what\'s wrong?

Try this. Put Mario Bates in the backfield, Lorenzo Hill, Floyd Turner, and Eric Martin at WR, and make Sloan the TE and Carl Smith the coordinator - then Brooks is perfect for this team, but until that, they need to explore other options. And Billy, Saintfan... if Brooks really is a top 5 QB, why do you oppose giving someone else a shot? If he\'s that good we\'ll all see it right away huh? I know we didn\'t see much of Delhomme in a Saints uniform, but it didn\'t seem to me that he played noticably worse than Brooks.

Help guys - am I nuts or is this a no-brainer?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintfan

By the way, Whodat, the talent on the Saints certainly doesn\'t hurt Brooks\' numbers, but I\'ll be damned if the dropped passes don\'t, and if you deny that has been a MAJOR issue for this team for the better part of a year now then pass me the crack pipe.

tweeky

You are absolutely right. it is an issue. But so is throwing the quick slant at your guys feet, or a yard behind him. In the WC system that pass needs to hit the WR in stride. We have guys making circus catches on passes that should hit them in stride.

And yes its frustrating when he finally does hit them in stride and they drop it. But I see that as 2 problems. Its 2 problems that have been a MAJOR issue for this team for the better part of a year now

JOESAM2002

I just thought of something. AB said he owned them all night with his eyes right?
Maybe he was talking about another game. The Seattle game started at 3:15 our time right? That would make it a starting time of 1:15 in Seattle. Just what the hell is he talking about? It wasn\'t night or even dark for that matter. Maybe he had on a blindfold? Just kidding guys. He really didn\'t mean it. He knows the difference between night and day! Right? :P

BillyCarpenter1

WhoDat -- I don\'t care who you put in our system at QB. You would be hard pressed to beat 27TD\'s and 3,500 yards for a QB that\'s only started for 3 years. All that other STUFF you talk about that is just that STUFF.

And yes you are NUTS if you think otherwise !!!

lumm0x

WhoDat, I completely agree that a QB\'s style of play is contingent on his success within a given system. Take any number of the teams in which you show pocket passers and slap Vick in there and I don\'t think he will be as successful because at this point in his career his touch, timing and accuracy are not at the level of the majority of those guys. The same can be said of any one of those pocket passers into the Falcons offense. They would be less successful as thye offense is now designed around the QB\'s motion and so many plays call for the scramble as the second or third checkdown option. Also the blocking schemes are centered either around pocket protection, or to allow front/side escape holes in Vick\'s case.

In my opinion, the biggest factor in determining how a QB rates is simply by success. That means wins.

BillyCarpenter1

LummOx -- I respectfully disagree. The QB alone does not contol the success of the team. All he can do is lead TD drives. Aaron passed for 27 TD\'s which was tied for most in the NFL. He limited his interceptions to a very respectful number. Our offense scored the most in the NFC. If we woud have had the Bucs defense we would have won the super bowl. Aaron has played without the benifit of a good defense much less a great defense that gives the ball back to the offense.

Saintsfan4ever

What is it going to take for Brooks to get some respect????????????

#1- When he can put together drives in the 1st half like he does in the 4th quarter when we`re behind 20 points and the defense gives a cushion. (Thats where the stats are coming from..so you can shut up about the stats.)
#2- When he can stand in the pocket and make good judgement passes instead of rolling out instinctively every pass play and throwing on the run or off his heels as he back petals. (sometimes pressure causes a QB to move...but not every damn pass play)
#3- When he can play with the same drive an attitude as he did the first 4 games he started. Brooks reminds me of a corvette with a bad carburater...oh he has potential, but if you can`t get him cranked up, you`re better off on a Moped.
#4- When he gets consistant for 4 quarters....like Horn and Mcallister, you know what to expect from these guys, but with Brooks it`s a coin toss. I want a QB that is going to WIN more often than not in crucial games. You guys keep bringing up McNabb, McNabb is not the weak link in their offense. McNabb is going to beat you if his other teammates are as half as consistant as himself.
#5- When he stops grinning after every boo boo....and yes..that pisses me off.

Saint4

BillyCarpenter1

Saintsfan4ever -- That\'s a bunch of garbage if I\'ve ever heard any. Forget the stats. What about the league leading 27 TD passes he threw? That\'s all I\'m worried about. The name of the game for a QB is TOUCHDOWNS.

The fact is if we had a defense to go with our NFC leading offense we would be in the superbowl. If you want to complain -- complain about the defense -- because right now you are talking garbage.

[Edited on 11/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

nocloning

1. So it\'s easier for a quarterback to put up big numbers when the defense primarily defends the pass?
2. 27 TD passes. Even if they play a \"bend but not break\" defense the goal is not to give up a TD, right?
3. 27 TD passes. All the losses were close enough that defenses didn\'t just willingly give up a TD in the last few minutes of a game. Maybe against Atlanta, but that\'s only one.
The stats are impressive and you will have a hard time arguing that.
On the other hand: All that counts is the W, throw out the stats. Right now Brooks is our best chance to get some of those Ws and he will be for some years to come. If he has a sub-par season I\'ll reevaluate him, but as of now I\'ll support him.

\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"