Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes

lumm0x · 09-11-2003, 07:19 PM

Billy, I\'m glad you respectfully disagreed. That was nice. My point was that if a QB is winning you will likely not hear negative talk about him. Say the Bucs win the next three superbowls (ohh god, I just threw up), and they go 14-2 every season, and Brad Johnson throws more picks than TD\'s and has a completion percentage below 50 and a rating around 50, will you hear alot of people talk trash? Winning will disguise alot of faults.

Every QB in this league has faults and fans will be quick to point them out, especially when things go sour. I didn\'t see alot of people in here mentioning faults when we were 6-1. Thus, winning will get him respect.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-11-2003, 08:52 PM

My point was that if a QB is winning you will likely not hear negative talk about him.

Then I respectfully agree. That\'s what I\'ve been trying to tell WhoDat. The hard headed bastard.

daviddrake2 · 09-11-2003, 09:51 PM

Bottom Line, everyone would be happy if a few simple things happen this season:

1) If Brooks puts up numbers similar to last year.

2) If his fundamentals continue to improve, i.e. he uses the pocket more effectively, chooses his targets and routes more wisely and improves the accuracy of his throws.

3) If he quits smiling when he f--ks up.

4) If he takes more of a leadership role, and

5) If he takes responsibility for his mistakes.

I know this discussion in well into its second year, but it\'s always the same. It can be debated and argued forever, but that\'s the bottom line no matter what anyone says, supporter, detracter or indifferent.

People have strong feelings about the SAINTS and sure everyone\'s happy when they win. But when they don\'t everything, opinions especially get magnified.

So I say let\'s wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. Then if he still plays the same, I say off with his head!

Go SAINTS!!!!!

David in Houston

Saintsfan4ever · 09-12-2003, 12:35 AM

OK....The question was entered somewhere in this thread \"What is Brooks going to have to do to get some respect?\".....well....I made a list of my personal opinions of what would earn my respect for Brooks. Garbage or no garbage, I`m sticking to it. I think Drake did about the same thing and may have summed it up more eliquently.
Myself and others are sick of Brooks\' inconsistentcy. period.
I believe also that the offense is not designed around Brooks abilities. He`s just not a control-offense kind of QB. He has done his best work playing \"catch-up\" where he gets to run a `Michael Vick\' style offense. Connecting on deep crossing paterns,screens and posing a run threat. Go back 17 games and add up his 4th quarter TD`s as opposed to 1st,2nd,3rd quarters combined.....\"no more questions your honor, the prosecution rest\"

nocloning · 09-12-2003, 06:04 AM

Go back 17 games and add up his 4th quarter TD`s as opposed to 1st,2nd,3rd quarters combined.....\"no more questions your honor, the prosecution rest\"

I didn\'t exactly do that, but I looked through last season\'s games and how many TDs he scored in a half. It\'s either 12-15 or 13-14 (somehow I missed one TD throw). If you\'re trying to use stats against him, get the stats right first.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 07:23 AM

http://www.vegasinsider.com/u/footba...2002_split.htm

If you want to see all of Aaron\'s situational stats, click on the link.

Now, heres some facts that are bullet proof and yes, even WhoDat proof......

Most stats for QB\'s are useless. The job of a QB is to help lead the offense into the endzone. Wheather that be moving the ball down the field by throwing for a 1st down or running for a first down (which by the way doesn\'t show up in the passer rating but keeps drives alive, none the less) or throwing bombs for TD\'s. It really doesn\'t matter what the stats are. What matters is if the QB helps put points on the board !!

Would you rather have a QB that completes 25 of 30 passes and the team scores 2 TD\'s or a QB that completes 20 of 30 passes and the team scores 3 TD\'s?? Kind of a no brainer ain\'t it??? Now, you can slice it any way you want to but Aaron was tied for 1st in the NFL in TD passes and our offense was # 1 in the NFC in scoring. Furthermore, Aaron didn\'t cost the team not 1 game by thowing an interception last year.

The offense did it\'s job last year. What happen is the defense DID NOT do it\'s JOB and now Aaron has to take the blame from some fans that really have no idea what they are talking about.

I dare anyone to tell me that passer rating is more important than putting points on the board. WhoDat, 08, FWtex, anyone -- Is that what you want us to beleive??? NO? Well, that\'s what you\'ve been screaming.

saintfan · 09-12-2003, 09:32 AM

...ok so now...along with all the other rediculousness that gets held against Aaron Brooks, people are gonna hold the number of 4th quarter touchdown passes against him too? Absolutely un-fu@&ing believeable!

Did anyanyone ever hold 4th quarter td\'s against Elway? Montana? Marino? Aikman? Bradshaw? Satubach? Anyone? Beuler? Anyone?

You people are freakin\' amazing...and obviously on crack. You guys are lookin for perfection, but I swear Jesus Christ could be our QB and you people would bench HIM too. Absolutely unbelievable.

WhoDat · 09-12-2003, 01:09 PM

Uh, I gave Brooks credit for his fourth quarter play in another thread, but whatever...

Lumm0x - \"In my opinion, the biggest factor in determining how a QB rates is simply by success. That means wins.\"

Billy - \"I respectfully disagree. The QB alone does not contol the success of the team.\"

Billy\'s Article by John Elway - \"To me, the No. 1 job of a quarterback -- besides winning, of course -- is what he does on third down.\"

So which one is it Bill? Is Elway, and thusly Lumm0x, right? Is winning the #1 job of a QB - or is that just a team thing? You can\'t have it both ways.

Billy - \"The name of the game for a QB is TOUCHDOWNS.\"

So the guy with the most touchdowns is the best QB in the league? Regardless of system, surrounding talent, injury, etc.? Didn\'t your article from Elway argue just the opposite? Is the guy who catches the most touchdowns in the league the best receiver? If so, Horn\'s not a Pro Bowler now is he?

Why are the stats different for a QB than any other position? We can judge a receiver by catches, yards, YAC, TDs, drops, big-plays, etc, but a QB is judged ONLY by wins or points? That\'s the most ridiculous thing I\'ve ever heard. Then ranking quarterbacks is simple. Ranks them by all-time winning percentage, then by Touchdowns. The combination of those two figures is a Qb\'s rank. Simple. That ranks Archie Manning 650,000th. Archie was a bad QB right? Kerry Collins would rank above Brooks right now then. You all obviously agree with that right? As would Trent Dilfer. Marc Bulger is the best QB in the league then. 6-0, 14 TDs - 2.3 a game. NO ONE will top that. Oops, actually, one guy will - JAKE DELHOMME. 100% winning percentage, 3 TDs. Thanks guys, you just proved Jake is a better QB than Brooks under the BillyC system. Thank you.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 01:28 PM

WhoDat -- Let\'s go ahead and cut to the chase here OK??

What is more important for a offense to be successful?

A) Score Points

B) For the QB to have a high passer rating??

tweeky · 09-12-2003, 01:39 PM

:casstet:
:casstet:
:casstet:

DIE THREAD, DIE!!!!!!

09-11-2003, 07:19 PM	#61
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Billy, I\'m glad you respectfully disagreed. That was nice. My point was that if a QB is winning you will likely not hear negative talk about him. Say the Bucs win the next three superbowls (ohh god, I just threw up), and they go 14-2 every season, and Brad Johnson throws more picks than TD\'s and has a completion percentage below 50 and a rating around 50, will you hear alot of people talk trash? Winning will disguise alot of faults. Every QB in this league has faults and fans will be quick to point them out, especially when things go sour. I didn\'t see alot of people in here mentioning faults when we were 6-1. Thus, winning will get him respect.

09-11-2003, 08:52 PM	#62
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes My point was that if a QB is winning you will likely not hear negative talk about him. Then I respectfully agree. That\'s what I\'ve been trying to tell WhoDat. The hard headed bastard.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-11-2003, 09:51 PM	#63
daviddrake2 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston (formerly N.O.) Posts: 270	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Bottom Line, everyone would be happy if a few simple things happen this season: 1) If Brooks puts up numbers similar to last year. 2) If his fundamentals continue to improve, i.e. he uses the pocket more effectively, chooses his targets and routes more wisely and improves the accuracy of his throws. 3) If he quits smiling when he f--ks up. 4) If he takes more of a leadership role, and 5) If he takes responsibility for his mistakes. I know this discussion in well into its second year, but it\'s always the same. It can be debated and argued forever, but that\'s the bottom line no matter what anyone says, supporter, detracter or indifferent. People have strong feelings about the SAINTS and sure everyone\'s happy when they win. But when they don\'t everything, opinions especially get magnified. So I say let\'s wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. Then if he still plays the same, I say off with his head! Go SAINTS!!!!! David in Houston
	Go SAINTS!!!!! David in Houston

09-12-2003, 12:35 AM	#64
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes OK....The question was entered somewhere in this thread \"What is Brooks going to have to do to get some respect?\".....well....I made a list of my personal opinions of what would earn my respect for Brooks. Garbage or no garbage, I`m sticking to it. I think Drake did about the same thing and may have summed it up more eliquently. Myself and others are sick of Brooks\' inconsistentcy. period. I believe also that the offense is not designed around Brooks abilities. He`s just not a control-offense kind of QB. He has done his best work playing \"catch-up\" where he gets to run a `Michael Vick\' style offense. Connecting on deep crossing paterns,screens and posing a run threat. Go back 17 games and add up his 4th quarter TD`s as opposed to 1st,2nd,3rd quarters combined.....\"no more questions your honor, the prosecution rest\"
	Saint4

09-12-2003, 06:04 AM	#65
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Go back 17 games and add up his 4th quarter TD`s as opposed to 1st,2nd,3rd quarters combined.....\"no more questions your honor, the prosecution rest\" I didn\'t exactly do that, but I looked through last season\'s games and how many TDs he scored in a half. It\'s either 12-15 or 13-14 (somehow I missed one TD throw). If you\'re trying to use stats against him, get the stats right first.
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302

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09-12-2003, 07:23 AM	#66
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes http://www.vegasinsider.com/u/footba...2002_split.htm If you want to see all of Aaron\'s situational stats, click on the link. Now, heres some facts that are bullet proof and yes, even WhoDat proof...... Most stats for QB\'s are useless. The job of a QB is to help lead the offense into the endzone. Wheather that be moving the ball down the field by throwing for a 1st down or running for a first down (which by the way doesn\'t show up in the passer rating but keeps drives alive, none the less) or throwing bombs for TD\'s. It really doesn\'t matter what the stats are. What matters is if the QB helps put points on the board !! Would you rather have a QB that completes 25 of 30 passes and the team scores 2 TD\'s or a QB that completes 20 of 30 passes and the team scores 3 TD\'s?? Kind of a no brainer ain\'t it??? Now, you can slice it any way you want to but Aaron was tied for 1st in the NFL in TD passes and our offense was # 1 in the NFC in scoring. Furthermore, Aaron didn\'t cost the team not 1 game by thowing an interception last year. The offense did it\'s job last year. What happen is the defense DID NOT do it\'s JOB and now Aaron has to take the blame from some fans that really have no idea what they are talking about. I dare anyone to tell me that passer rating is more important than putting points on the board. WhoDat, 08, FWtex, anyone -- Is that what you want us to beleive??? NO? Well, that\'s what you\'ve been screaming.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-12-2003, 09:32 AM	#67
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes ...ok so now...along with all the other rediculousness that gets held against Aaron Brooks, people are gonna hold the number of 4th quarter touchdown passes against him too? Absolutely un-fu@&ing believeable! Did anyanyone ever hold 4th quarter td\'s against Elway? Montana? Marino? Aikman? Bradshaw? Satubach? Anyone? Beuler? Anyone? You people are freakin\' amazing...and obviously on crack. You guys are lookin for perfection, but I swear Jesus Christ could be our QB and you people would bench HIM too. Absolutely unbelievable.

09-12-2003, 01:09 PM	#68
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Uh, I gave Brooks credit for his fourth quarter play in another thread, but whatever... Lumm0x - \"In my opinion, the biggest factor in determining how a QB rates is simply by success. That means wins.\" Billy - \"I respectfully disagree. The QB alone does not contol the success of the team.\" Billy\'s Article by John Elway - \"To me, the No. 1 job of a quarterback -- besides winning, of course -- is what he does on third down.\" So which one is it Bill? Is Elway, and thusly Lumm0x, right? Is winning the #1 job of a QB - or is that just a team thing? You can\'t have it both ways. Billy - \"The name of the game for a QB is TOUCHDOWNS.\" So the guy with the most touchdowns is the best QB in the league? Regardless of system, surrounding talent, injury, etc.? Didn\'t your article from Elway argue just the opposite? Is the guy who catches the most touchdowns in the league the best receiver? If so, Horn\'s not a Pro Bowler now is he? Why are the stats different for a QB than any other position? We can judge a receiver by catches, yards, YAC, TDs, drops, big-plays, etc, but a QB is judged ONLY by wins or points? That\'s the most ridiculous thing I\'ve ever heard. Then ranking quarterbacks is simple. Ranks them by all-time winning percentage, then by Touchdowns. The combination of those two figures is a Qb\'s rank. Simple. That ranks Archie Manning 650,000th. Archie was a bad QB right? Kerry Collins would rank above Brooks right now then. You all obviously agree with that right? As would Trent Dilfer. Marc Bulger is the best QB in the league then. 6-0, 14 TDs - 2.3 a game. NO ONE will top that. Oops, actually, one guy will - JAKE DELHOMME. 100% winning percentage, 3 TDs. Thanks guys, you just proved Jake is a better QB than Brooks under the BillyC system. Thank you.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-12-2003, 01:28 PM	#69
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes WhoDat -- Let\'s go ahead and cut to the chase here OK?? What is more important for a offense to be successful? A) Score Points B) For the QB to have a high passer rating??
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-12-2003, 01:39 PM	#70
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: DIE THREAD, DIE!!!!!!