Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes

saintfan · 09-12-2003, 02:02 PM

Whodat, you\'ll do anything to facilitate the argument. NO ONE can succeed without the other. You\'re hung up on \"ranking\" and side stepping the fact that all these statistics you toss up into the wind are all relative to the players that surround the player who\'s stats you\'re discussing.

Now tell the truth. If AB had the kinda game Mcnabb had last week you\'d be in here with all kind of \"I told you so\'s\". On the other hand, if you were in charge, there\'s no way in hell or on earth that, after last weeks performance, you\'d sit Donovan down.

The question is why? Do you acknowledge all the droped passes and cut the QB some slack? Well, do you? If so, why Donavan and not Brooks? Do you think all the dropped passes hurt Donavan\'s numbers last week? Do you think McNabb\'s numbers...his QB \"statistics\" -- you know those numbers you think tell the whole story -- would be better if his receivers hadn\'t dropped so many passes?

I know you\'re a \"numbers\" guy Whodat...tell me...if we\'re not penalized early on 4th and inches and we make that first down and go on to score and the momentum of that game were a complete 180 versus what it was, how much credit does Aaron Brooks get for it? How much does he deserve? How responsible was he for the pentalty that the players all agree really set the tone early on?

Remember that in all your number crunching, Football is a TEAM sport and everyone\'s stats are in part relative to everyone else\'s. Go ahead and cut Donovan some slack cause as you stated earlier he\'s really the only guy they have. Is that right? Weren\'t they awefully close to the superbowl last year? Didn\'t he miss quite a few games due to injury? They did pretty well for a bunch of \"nobodys\" minus their Star QB \'d say. would\'nt you?

What I think Billy is trying to say, and I could be wrong (but it\'s not likely), is that if you\'re gonna start judging a QB by numbers alone, perhpas looking at TD passes and points on the board would be a good place to start. If you start trying to judge a guy based on how well he did last season in NOON games in the second half when the wind was blowing from the southeast and the temperature was between 49 and 70 degrees etc etc you just MIGHT have an agenda. At least that\'s the way it appears to me.

Saintsfan4ever · 09-12-2003, 02:05 PM

ok....I`m convinced now...Brooks is the best QB we`ve ever had...what was I thinking?....I mean. it`s not his fault he played poorly the last 4 regular season games. it was that darn defense and bad play calling.....Brooks has performed brilliantly at times, so whatever he does from here on out is fine by me. :hallucine:

tweeky · 09-12-2003, 02:23 PM

Just for kicks, and to see how everyone really feels about Brooks.
How many QB\'s would you trade straight up right now for AB?
Taking into consideration long term and short term, here\'s my list.

McNabb
Manning
Mike Vick
David Carr
Joey Harrington

I can\'t think of anyone else I\'d rather have.
Five QB\'s!!! From a guy that some have labeled a Brooks Basher.
There are some I\'d like for just one season (Favre, Brunnel, Gannon, McNair), and some that come close (Culpepper, Hasselback).
But only five that I\'d trade head up, right now.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 02:30 PM

Whodat wants to blind you with stats and complicate matters so he doesn\'t get exposed for being wrong but I\'m going to lay it out in a very simple way, because it really is very simple.

1. The objective of a FOOTBALL TEAM is to win games.

2. The objective of the DEFENSE is to keep the other team from scoring.

3. The objective of the OFFENSE is to score points.

I think we can all agree on this. If not, you are retarded and need to seek help.

WhoDat says Brooks isn\'t right for our system, but how can that be when the SYSTEM led by AARON BROOKS was more successful than every other system in the NFC. Is there anything more important than scoring points on offense? I thought the objective for the offense is to get in the endzone. I didn\'t know you had to go look at the stats on the way to the endzone to make sure we make WhoDat happy.

I know WhoDat understands eveything I\'m telling him -- he just doesn\'t want to admit it. He wants to complicate matters and not look at the FACTS -- Aaron Brooks led the # 1 offense in the NFC. He wants everyone to beleive that passer rating in more important than scoring points. I might be alone in my belief that scoring points on offense is the most important thing, but I thought that\'s the way it worked. Ask yourself what you want. Do you want to be the highest scoring offense or do you want all that STUFF WhoDat talks about????

[Edited on 12/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

saintfan · 09-12-2003, 02:37 PM

You are not alone. There is another. LOL

:P

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 02:52 PM

saintsfan -- Unfortunately this is something WhoDat will never admit to. It\'s a lost cause but it sure is fun watching WhoDat try to wiggle and squirm his way out of looking at the facts.

WhoDat wants ANYONE besides Brooks as the starter and while he might give a little credit to Brooks here and there, to try to make himself not look like a HATER, all the evidence is there.

WhoDat is a classic example of the fan that thinks the backup QB is the next superstar. And it\'s hard to argue that the backup QB isn\'t going to be great. It\'s also hard to argue that alien life doesn\'t exist on another planet.

saintfan · 09-12-2003, 03:58 PM

Alien life on other planets? That\'s quite likely...statistically speaking of course!

Sorry whodat...Billy tee\'d it up. I HAD to swing at it!

LOL

WhoDat · 09-12-2003, 04:41 PM

OK - let me address the many posts...

\"NO ONE can succeed without the other\" - Agree completely. However, WINS AND LOSSES AND POINTS SCORED ARE TEAM STATS, not individual ones. You two want to credit Brooks for things the TEAM did, but ignore the things that HE did.

\"If AB had the kinda game Mcnabb had last week you\'d be in here with all kind of \"I told you so\'s\". On the other hand, if you were in charge, there\'s no way in hell or on earth that, after last weeks performance, you\'d sit Donovan down. \"

AGAIN SAINTFAN, go read my other posts. I do not advocate sitting Aaron Brooks down. Nor Donovan McNabb. Brooks is undoubtedly the most talented QB on the team RIGHT NOW. That does NOT mean he is the best fit for this team in the LEAGUE, but I do not, and have not, suggested that Brooks be benched. I think you have me confused with other members of this board.

\"Do you acknowledge all the droped passes and cut the QB some slack? Well, do you?\"

Yes, I do. I did in other posts. AGAIN - FOR THE 10TH TIME - AARON BROOKS IS NOT THE REASON THE SAINTS LOST IN SEATTLE. Is that clear enough to you. Why is it that you cannot differentiate my feeling Brooks is not the right QB for our system, and your perception that I blame every one of the Saints misfortunes on him? I certainly do not, as evident by the many posts in which I blame the defense, coordinators, o-line, receivers, special teams.... etc. for losses this year AND LAST.

\"WhoDat wants ANYONE besides Brooks as the starter and while he might give a little credit to Brooks here and there, to try to make himself not look like a HATER, all the evidence is there. \"

What is amazing to me is that you two have to polarize this argument this much. AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN - Aaron Brooks is the best quarterback on this team. He should be, and is, the starter. How the two of you can construe that as \"I hate AB and want any bum off the street over him.\" is beyond me.

\"WhoDat says Brooks isn\'t right for our system, but how can that be when the SYSTEM led by AARON BROOKS was more successful than every other system in the NFC.\"

So obviously there is ZERO room for improvement on offense then huh? Is that right Billy? And if your TEAM leads the conference in a particular category it obviously means that every player on that TEAM is the best possible player you could have at that position. Right? That\'s why every player on Tampa\'s defense went to the Pro Bowl... er...

The reality of the situation here is this. I have given Brooks credit for his strengths, but made solid arguments for why I think he is wrong for this team. You two seem to believe that he is infallible. Have you conceded that he has ANY weaknesses? ANY AT ALL? No, of course not. He is obviously the perfect QB, and perfectly fit for our system.

Forget the stats that the NFL uses to compare quarterbacks - what does the NFL know about football anyway? BillyC and Saintfan - they know how to judge a quarterback. Obviously it\'s by how many points the defense scores.

I mean, Jesus Christ. I say that you need to have a common denominator to compare stats and in addition state that there are intangibles that cannot be measured. That gets construed as \"you start trying to judge a guy based on how well he did last season in NOON games in the second half when the wind was blowing from the southeast and the temperature was between 49 and 70 degrees etc etc you just MIGHT have an agenda. \" What the F??

B/c Passer Efficiency Rating, Completion Percentage, and Yards per Attempt are obviously RIDICULOUS (that\'s RI not RE) measures of a QB. It\'s Interesting - YARDS and TDs are all that matter, huh? Could AB have AS MANY yards or TDs if he played for Arizona? NO. Obviously. Somehow that means that he is a less talented quarterback according to Saintfan and Billy. Good thing he plays here I guess.

Now, I\'ll try this again. I have a business. Billy has a business. My business made $1 million in 10 days. Billy\'s made $750,000 in three days. Now, Billy and Saintfan would have you believe that MY business is better b/c it made MORE MONEY TOTAL. Forget a common denominator. However, when you compare the two with a common denominator like, say a day, you see that I make $100,000 a day whereas Billy makes $250,000 a day. Forget all that. When you start comparing money made only on days that end in Y and are between negative 30 and 150 degrees, you might just have an agenda.

Frankly, I am tired of this discussion once again. You two LOVE Aaron Brooks like he was your dad. You\'ve obviously both placed all of your hopes for the Saints in HIM. We\'ll wait and see what happens with the Saints. We\'ll see what he does this year. What his numbers are - but Billy is right about ONE thing. I will NOT say I\'m wrong about Brooks... not until he PROVES to me on the FIELD that he is a TOP 5 QB - like we\'re paying him to be.

That\'s it for this. I\'m done.

saintfan · 09-12-2003, 05:14 PM

Oh COME ON Gator...you LOVE AB\'s Smile and you KNOW it!

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-12-2003, 05:18 PM

Gator -- I don\'t know how I come across wrong because I pretty much said the samething you did. And you should understand how easy it is to come across wrong when someone has been trying to prove a point to someo forever.

At least your assessment of Brooks is fair. I don\'t neccessarily agree with all of it but it\'s al helluva lot more fair than WhoDat\'s assessment.

Peace Brother.

09-12-2003, 02:02 PM	#71
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Whodat, you\'ll do anything to facilitate the argument. NO ONE can succeed without the other. You\'re hung up on \"ranking\" and side stepping the fact that all these statistics you toss up into the wind are all relative to the players that surround the player who\'s stats you\'re discussing. Now tell the truth. If AB had the kinda game Mcnabb had last week you\'d be in here with all kind of \"I told you so\'s\". On the other hand, if you were in charge, there\'s no way in hell or on earth that, after last weeks performance, you\'d sit Donovan down. The question is why? Do you acknowledge all the droped passes and cut the QB some slack? Well, do you? If so, why Donavan and not Brooks? Do you think all the dropped passes hurt Donavan\'s numbers last week? Do you think McNabb\'s numbers...his QB \"statistics\" -- you know those numbers you think tell the whole story -- would be better if his receivers hadn\'t dropped so many passes? I know you\'re a \"numbers\" guy Whodat...tell me...if we\'re not penalized early on 4th and inches and we make that first down and go on to score and the momentum of that game were a complete 180 versus what it was, how much credit does Aaron Brooks get for it? How much does he deserve? How responsible was he for the pentalty that the players all agree really set the tone early on? Remember that in all your number crunching, Football is a TEAM sport and everyone\'s stats are in part relative to everyone else\'s. Go ahead and cut Donovan some slack cause as you stated earlier he\'s really the only guy they have. Is that right? Weren\'t they awefully close to the superbowl last year? Didn\'t he miss quite a few games due to injury? They did pretty well for a bunch of \"nobodys\" minus their Star QB \'d say. would\'nt you? What I think Billy is trying to say, and I could be wrong (but it\'s not likely), is that if you\'re gonna start judging a QB by numbers alone, perhpas looking at TD passes and points on the board would be a good place to start. If you start trying to judge a guy based on how well he did last season in NOON games in the second half when the wind was blowing from the southeast and the temperature was between 49 and 70 degrees etc etc you just MIGHT have an agenda. At least that\'s the way it appears to me.
	C'mon Man...

09-12-2003, 02:05 PM	#72
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes ok....I`m convinced now...Brooks is the best QB we`ve ever had...what was I thinking?....I mean. it`s not his fault he played poorly the last 4 regular season games. it was that darn defense and bad play calling.....Brooks has performed brilliantly at times, so whatever he does from here on out is fine by me. :hallucine:

09-12-2003, 02:23 PM	#73
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Just for kicks, and to see how everyone really feels about Brooks. How many QB\'s would you trade straight up right now for AB? Taking into consideration long term and short term, here\'s my list. McNabb Manning Mike Vick David Carr Joey Harrington I can\'t think of anyone else I\'d rather have. Five QB\'s!!! From a guy that some have labeled a Brooks Basher. There are some I\'d like for just one season (Favre, Brunnel, Gannon, McNair), and some that come close (Culpepper, Hasselback). But only five that I\'d trade head up, right now.
	Whether we agree or disagree; its all for Him.

09-12-2003, 02:30 PM	#74
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Whodat wants to blind you with stats and complicate matters so he doesn\'t get exposed for being wrong but I\'m going to lay it out in a very simple way, because it really is very simple. 1. The objective of a FOOTBALL TEAM is to win games. 2. The objective of the DEFENSE is to keep the other team from scoring. 3. The objective of the OFFENSE is to score points. I think we can all agree on this. If not, you are retarded and need to seek help. WhoDat says Brooks isn\'t right for our system, but how can that be when the SYSTEM led by AARON BROOKS was more successful than every other system in the NFC. Is there anything more important than scoring points on offense? I thought the objective for the offense is to get in the endzone. I didn\'t know you had to go look at the stats on the way to the endzone to make sure we make WhoDat happy. I know WhoDat understands eveything I\'m telling him -- he just doesn\'t want to admit it. He wants to complicate matters and not look at the FACTS -- Aaron Brooks led the # 1 offense in the NFC. He wants everyone to beleive that passer rating in more important than scoring points. I might be alone in my belief that scoring points on offense is the most important thing, but I thought that\'s the way it worked. Ask yourself what you want. Do you want to be the highest scoring offense or do you want all that STUFF WhoDat talks about???? [Edited on 12/9/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-12-2003, 02:37 PM	#75
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes You are not alone. There is another. LOL :P

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09-12-2003, 02:52 PM	#76
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes saintsfan -- Unfortunately this is something WhoDat will never admit to. It\'s a lost cause but it sure is fun watching WhoDat try to wiggle and squirm his way out of looking at the facts. WhoDat wants ANYONE besides Brooks as the starter and while he might give a little credit to Brooks here and there, to try to make himself not look like a HATER, all the evidence is there. WhoDat is a classic example of the fan that thinks the backup QB is the next superstar. And it\'s hard to argue that the backup QB isn\'t going to be great. It\'s also hard to argue that alien life doesn\'t exist on another planet.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-12-2003, 03:58 PM	#77
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Alien life on other planets? That\'s quite likely...statistically speaking of course! Sorry whodat...Billy tee\'d it up. I HAD to swing at it! LOL

09-12-2003, 04:41 PM	#78
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes OK - let me address the many posts... \"NO ONE can succeed without the other\" - Agree completely. However, WINS AND LOSSES AND POINTS SCORED ARE TEAM STATS, not individual ones. You two want to credit Brooks for things the TEAM did, but ignore the things that HE did. \"If AB had the kinda game Mcnabb had last week you\'d be in here with all kind of \"I told you so\'s\". On the other hand, if you were in charge, there\'s no way in hell or on earth that, after last weeks performance, you\'d sit Donovan down. \" AGAIN SAINTFAN, go read my other posts. I do not advocate sitting Aaron Brooks down. Nor Donovan McNabb. Brooks is undoubtedly the most talented QB on the team RIGHT NOW. That does NOT mean he is the best fit for this team in the LEAGUE, but I do not, and have not, suggested that Brooks be benched. I think you have me confused with other members of this board. \"Do you acknowledge all the droped passes and cut the QB some slack? Well, do you?\" Yes, I do. I did in other posts. AGAIN - FOR THE 10TH TIME - AARON BROOKS IS NOT THE REASON THE SAINTS LOST IN SEATTLE. Is that clear enough to you. Why is it that you cannot differentiate my feeling Brooks is not the right QB for our system, and your perception that I blame every one of the Saints misfortunes on him? I certainly do not, as evident by the many posts in which I blame the defense, coordinators, o-line, receivers, special teams.... etc. for losses this year AND LAST. \"WhoDat wants ANYONE besides Brooks as the starter and while he might give a little credit to Brooks here and there, to try to make himself not look like a HATER, all the evidence is there. \" What is amazing to me is that you two have to polarize this argument this much. AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN - Aaron Brooks is the best quarterback on this team. He should be, and is, the starter. How the two of you can construe that as \"I hate AB and want any bum off the street over him.\" is beyond me. \"WhoDat says Brooks isn\'t right for our system, but how can that be when the SYSTEM led by AARON BROOKS was more successful than every other system in the NFC.\" So obviously there is ZERO room for improvement on offense then huh? Is that right Billy? And if your TEAM leads the conference in a particular category it obviously means that every player on that TEAM is the best possible player you could have at that position. Right? That\'s why every player on Tampa\'s defense went to the Pro Bowl... er... The reality of the situation here is this. I have given Brooks credit for his strengths, but made solid arguments for why I think he is wrong for this team. You two seem to believe that he is infallible. Have you conceded that he has ANY weaknesses? ANY AT ALL? No, of course not. He is obviously the perfect QB, and perfectly fit for our system. Forget the stats that the NFL uses to compare quarterbacks - what does the NFL know about football anyway? BillyC and Saintfan - they know how to judge a quarterback. Obviously it\'s by how many points the defense scores. I mean, Jesus Christ. I say that you need to have a common denominator to compare stats and in addition state that there are intangibles that cannot be measured. That gets construed as \"you start trying to judge a guy based on how well he did last season in NOON games in the second half when the wind was blowing from the southeast and the temperature was between 49 and 70 degrees etc etc you just MIGHT have an agenda. \" What the F?? B/c Passer Efficiency Rating, Completion Percentage, and Yards per Attempt are obviously RIDICULOUS (that\'s RI not RE) measures of a QB. It\'s Interesting - YARDS and TDs are all that matter, huh? Could AB have AS MANY yards or TDs if he played for Arizona? NO. Obviously. Somehow that means that he is a less talented quarterback according to Saintfan and Billy. Good thing he plays here I guess. Now, I\'ll try this again. I have a business. Billy has a business. My business made $1 million in 10 days. Billy\'s made $750,000 in three days. Now, Billy and Saintfan would have you believe that MY business is better b/c it made MORE MONEY TOTAL. Forget a common denominator. However, when you compare the two with a common denominator like, say a day, you see that I make $100,000 a day whereas Billy makes $250,000 a day. Forget all that. When you start comparing money made only on days that end in Y and are between negative 30 and 150 degrees, you might just have an agenda. Frankly, I am tired of this discussion once again. You two LOVE Aaron Brooks like he was your dad. You\'ve obviously both placed all of your hopes for the Saints in HIM. We\'ll wait and see what happens with the Saints. We\'ll see what he does this year. What his numbers are - but Billy is right about ONE thing. I will NOT say I\'m wrong about Brooks... not until he PROVES to me on the FIELD that he is a TOP 5 QB - like we\'re paying him to be. That\'s it for this. I\'m done.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

09-12-2003, 05:14 PM	#79
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Oh COME ON Gator...you LOVE AB\'s Smile and you KNOW it!

09-12-2003, 05:18 PM	#80
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Brooks"I owned them pretty much the whole night with my eyes Gator -- I don\'t know how I come across wrong because I pretty much said the samething you did. And you should understand how easy it is to come across wrong when someone has been trying to prove a point to someo forever. At least your assessment of Brooks is fair. I don\'t neccessarily agree with all of it but it\'s al helluva lot more fair than WhoDat\'s assessment. Peace Brother.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209