COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-26-2010, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by indy4192

Wow, where to start;

Our small Defense did just fine in shutting down both the Ravens and Jets rushing game, both have much better O lines then the Saints and better running games.

The Ravens and the Jets are no threat to pass the ball. Sure you can stop the run with 8-9 in the box all game long. Do you really want the Colts to put 8-9 in the box against Drew Brees? I know I do.

Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts
Sanchez was sacked 26 times on 364 attempts
Flacco was sacked 36 times on 499 attempts
O-line pass blocking advantage: clearly the Saints.

Saints ran the ball 468 times for 2106 yards and a 4.5 average
NY Jets ran the ball 607 times for 2756 yards and a 4.5 average
Ravens ran the ball 468 times for 2200 yards and a 4.7 average
Ok. The Ravens get 7 inches more per carry. Otherwise, neither Jets or Ravens seem to be better at running the ball than the Saints.

Next:

The Cards offense is just as explosive as the Saints are and we played and beat them this year.

No.
The Cardinals scored 375 points all season long.
The Saints scored 510 points all season long.

And the Saints beat the Cards as well. So what?

Next:

We proved in the Jets game we don't need Reggie to have a big game to win, so shut him down, we have a multitude of other options.

.. the Saints D doesn't play to shut anyone down. The Saints D plays to physically beat you up and make you fumble and give the ball back to the offense. . Ask the Vikings how they are feeling today.

Next:

We run the ball when we need to and do so just fine. We are not a run first team.

The Colts don't run the ball because they can't. With all the people who drop back to defend the pass, the Colts should be getting 5 yards a pop.

Next:

Final score: Colts 35 --- Saints 28

.. don't bet the house on that...

indy4192 · 01-26-2010, 12:32 PM

Here to help you out...

Lets see, Sanchez is a rookie and Flacco is in his second year, so both are going to struggle with sacks. Your O line may pass block better, but that doesn't mean they are an overall better line.

Next:

All 3 teams ran the ball well in the regular season. but when they played the Colts, how did they do? How did the top rusher in the NFL do against the Colts? Sorry but the Colts D right now is shutting the run down.

Next:

True the Saints scored more overall points, but are you really saying that the Cards are not as explosive as the Saints? How many more weapons do the Saints offer that the Cards don't? You can't tell me the Saints have a better 1-2 punch at WR then the Cards? You can't say the Saints have a better QB then the Cards? Yes you beat them up in your home, we destroyed them in their own home. Which is more impressive?

Next:

Well lets see, how many of those takeaways were from hard hits? The one fumble by AP was near the goal line and was due to a poor handoff, not any Saint player hitting him. I watche the game, the 1 Viking getting hit was Farve, I didn't see any other "bell ringers" on other Vikings?

Next:

During the regular season your right, you might want to see how we did against two top defenses the two past weeks.

Next:

The major difference in the two teams is glaring. EXPERIENCE. The Saints will struggle with all that is involved in the next two weeks, the Colts have been there and done that. NOT 1 single team in that has played the Colts A team throughout the entire game has beaten the Colts this year, can you say the same for the Saints? You couldn't beat the lowly Bucs in your own home this season and got destroyed by the Cowboys.

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

The Ravens and the Jets are no threat to pass the ball. Sure you can stop the run with 8-9 in the box all game long. Do you really want the Colts to put 8-9 in the box against Drew Brees? I know I do.

Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts
Sanchez was sacked 26 times on 364 attempts
Flacco was sacked 36 times on 499 attempts
O-line pass blocking advantage: clearly the Saints.

Saints ran the ball 468 times for 2106 yards and a 4.5 average
NY Jets ran the ball 607 times for 2756 yards and a 4.5 average
Ravens ran the ball 468 times for 2200 yards and a 4.7 average
Ok. The Ravens get 7 inches more per carry. Otherwise, neither Jets or Ravens seem to be better at running the ball than the Saints.

No.
The Cardinals scored 375 points all season long.
The Saints scored 510 points all season long.

And the Saints beat the Cards as well. So what?

.. the Saints D doesn't play to shut anyone down. The Saints D plays to physically beat you up and make you fumble and give the ball back to the offense. . Ask the Vikings how they are feeling today.

The Colts don't run the ball because they can't. With all the people who drop back to defend the pass, the Colts should be getting 5 yards a pop.

.. don't bet the house on that...

Tobias-Reiper · 01-26-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by indy4192

Here to help you out...

Lets see, Sanchez is a rookie and Flacco is in his second year, so both are going to struggle with sacks. Your O line may pass block better, but that doesn't mean they are an overall better line.

. yet, you are so impressed with your team beating 2 teams with mediocre QBs who can't pass the ball. You can't have it both ways.

Next:

All 3 teams ran the ball well in the regular season. but when they played the Colts, how did they do? How did the top rusher in the NFL do against the Colts? Sorry but the Colts D right now is shutting the run down.

.. again, it is easy to shut the run down when you put 8-9 people in the box when, as you admit above, the QBs on the other teams are mediocre and do not present a challenge. And again, I surely hope the Colts do the same against the Saints.

Next:

True the Saints scored more overall points, but are you really saying that the Cards are not as explosive as the Saints? How many more weapons do the Saints offer that the Cards don't? You can't tell me the Saints have a better 1-2 punch at WR then the Cards? You can't say the Saints have a better QB then the Cards? Yes you beat them up in your home, we destroyed them in their own home. Which is more impressive?

Actually, I can say the Saints have a better QB than the Cardinals:
Brees threw for 34 TDs 11 INTs 70.6% CR 103.6 PR
Warner threw for 26 TDS 14 INTs 66.1 % CR 93.2 PR

As for "weapons", I guess you mean media darlings like Fitz? The Saints don't really have any media darlings..but as far as WR punch, the Saints don't have a 1-2 punch, they have a 1-2-3-4 combination in Colston, Henderson, Meachem, and Reggie (there's also Lance Moore, but he's been hurt). The Saints have 2 TEs who are better at catching and blocking in Shockey and Thomas than anything the Cards have at TE. At RB, the combination of Pierre, Reggie, and Bell is better than what the Cards have, both running the ball and catching the ball out of the backfield. And yes, you will notice I put Reggie in both RB and WR.

Now, don't you think that, when you compare one team to the other, when a team scores 135 more points than the other, thatmaybe, just maybe, the one team has better QB play and better weapons around that QB? Just sayin'

Next:

Well lets see, how many of those takeaways were from hard hits? The one fumble by AP was near the goal line and was due to a poor handoff, not any Saint player hitting him. I watche the game, the 1 Viking getting hit was Farve, I didn't see any other "bell ringers" on other Vikings?

Yep. one fumble was a bad exchange.. the other fumbles, the ball was knocked out of the hands of the Vikings players. Don't discount the effects of the accumulation of hits. Not every punch is a knock out, but the accumulation of hit surely makes a difference.

Next:

During the regular season your right, you might want to see how we did against two top defenses the two past weeks.

Well, the Colts scored 20 points on Baltimore. WOW! What a beat down!
The Colts did score 30 on the Jets.

Next:

The major difference in the two teams is glaring. EXPERIENCE. The Saints will struggle with all that is involved in the next two weeks, the Colts have been there and done that. NOT 1 single team in that has played the Colts A team throughout the entire game has beaten the Colts this year, can you say the same for the Saints? You couldn't beat the lowly Bucs in your own home this season and got destroyed by the Cowboys.

Ok. So 3 years ago, about half the current Colts played in a Superbowl, and they stayed in this hotel 3 years ago, and practiced in this field 3 years ago, and that is EXPERIENCE. O...K...
I will tell you this:
All the media events are scheduled for both teams equally, so that isn't a distraction.
Unlike players who live in other states, these are the NEW ORLEANS Saints. They already live among "distractions".
Not to mention, the character of the players on the Saints roster. Of course, I wouldn't expct you to know about that either

I wouldn't call a 24-17 score getting destroyed, but I guess that's just an opinion. The Cowboys won, they were the better team that day, props to them.

As for the Saints A team, I am glad you asked. I don't expect you to know the Saints roster, because you don't follow the Saints. Here's a secret you may not know, but the Saints have not played with their A team since week 5, and are going to the Superbowl without their A team, not to mention they started their season without their starting LT, their best pure possession receiver, and one of the staring DTs.

But look.. you keep rationalizing the Superbowl win for the Colts, and keep on bringing all this stuff the Colts did in the past against other teams, keep telling yourself the Saints are no better than the Ravens or the Jets, and keep on reminding yourself how much more experienced the Colts are playing Superbowls.

I'm just going to wait and see what happens when the game is actually played.

braggbro1 · 01-26-2010, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts

Manning was sacked 10 times in 575 attempts this season and yet I keep reading here about how the Saints are going to get to him. You're completely confident you can protect against Freeney and Mathis (remember Ware and Spencer?) and yet also completely confident you can get to Manning. Doesn't make too much sense to me.

You're using stats when they support what you want to believe and ignoring them when they don't. That's all fine and good if you want to build up your confidence before the game but when the game starts, none of the false confidence will matter.

I'm a Colts fan that has picked the Saints to win, but some of the reasoning here simply blows my mind. Both teams have an offensive advantage over the opposing defense. I think the Saints being the better running team gives them an advantage but by no means do I think the Saints are going to stop the Colts offense. This will be a shootout.

Tobias-Reiper · 01-26-2010, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by braggbro1

Manning was sacked 10 times in 575 attempts this season and yet I keep reading here about how the Saints are going to get to him. You're completely confident you can protect against Freeney and Mathis (remember Ware and Spencer?) and yet also completely confident you can get to Manning. Doesn't make too much sense to me.

You're using stats when they support what you want to believe and ignoring them when they don't. That's all fine and good if you want to build up your confidence before the game but when the game starts, none of the false confidence will matter.

I'm a Colts fan that has picked the Saints to win, but some of the reasoning here simply blows my mind. Both teams have an offensive advantage over the opposing defense. I think the Saints being the better running team gives them an advantage but by no means do I think the Saints are going to stop the Colts offense. This will be a shootout.

I will say, I've read your other posts, and you indeed are representing the Colts fans very well, and I am not saying that because you picked the Saints to win.

That Dallas game was a bad one all around for the Saints. Brees got sacked 4 times that game. The Saints LT had all sorts of issues with Ware's rush, but for some reason unknown to man Sean Payton never gave Bushrod any help. The Saints lost their starting FB in week 5-6 (don't exactly remember) and never really solidified the position. Now they are using TEs as FBs, and they are doing a decent job.

01-26-2010, 11:53 AM	#1
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D. Originally Posted by indy4192 Wow, where to start; Our small Defense did just fine in shutting down both the Ravens and Jets rushing game, both have much better O lines then the Saints and better running games. The Ravens and the Jets are no threat to pass the ball. Sure you can stop the run with 8-9 in the box all game long. Do you really want the Colts to put 8-9 in the box against Drew Brees? I know I do. Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts Sanchez was sacked 26 times on 364 attempts Flacco was sacked 36 times on 499 attempts O-line pass blocking advantage: clearly the Saints. Saints ran the ball 468 times for 2106 yards and a 4.5 average NY Jets ran the ball 607 times for 2756 yards and a 4.5 average Ravens ran the ball 468 times for 2200 yards and a 4.7 average Ok. The Ravens get 7 inches more per carry. Otherwise, neither Jets or Ravens seem to be better at running the ball than the Saints. Next: The Cards offense is just as explosive as the Saints are and we played and beat them this year. No. The Cardinals scored 375 points all season long. The Saints scored 510 points all season long. And the Saints beat the Cards as well. So what? Next: We proved in the Jets game we don't need Reggie to have a big game to win, so shut him down, we have a multitude of other options. .. the Saints D doesn't play to shut anyone down. The Saints D plays to physically beat you up and make you fumble and give the ball back to the offense. . Ask the Vikings how they are feeling today. Next: We run the ball when we need to and do so just fine. We are not a run first team. The Colts don't run the ball because they can't. With all the people who drop back to defend the pass, the Colts should be getting 5 yards a pop. Next: Final score: Colts 35 --- Saints 28 .. don't bet the house on that...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 01-26-2010 at 11:58 AM..

01-26-2010, 12:32 PM	#2
indy4192 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 122	Re: COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D. Here to help you out... Lets see, Sanchez is a rookie and Flacco is in his second year, so both are going to struggle with sacks. Your O line may pass block better, but that doesn't mean they are an overall better line. Next: All 3 teams ran the ball well in the regular season. but when they played the Colts, how did they do? How did the top rusher in the NFL do against the Colts? Sorry but the Colts D right now is shutting the run down. Next: True the Saints scored more overall points, but are you really saying that the Cards are not as explosive as the Saints? How many more weapons do the Saints offer that the Cards don't? You can't tell me the Saints have a better 1-2 punch at WR then the Cards? You can't say the Saints have a better QB then the Cards? Yes you beat them up in your home, we destroyed them in their own home. Which is more impressive? Next: Well lets see, how many of those takeaways were from hard hits? The one fumble by AP was near the goal line and was due to a poor handoff, not any Saint player hitting him. I watche the game, the 1 Viking getting hit was Farve, I didn't see any other "bell ringers" on other Vikings? Next: During the regular season your right, you might want to see how we did against two top defenses the two past weeks. Next: The major difference in the two teams is glaring. EXPERIENCE. The Saints will struggle with all that is involved in the next two weeks, the Colts have been there and done that. NOT 1 single team in that has played the Colts A team throughout the entire game has beaten the Colts this year, can you say the same for the Saints? You couldn't beat the lowly Bucs in your own home this season and got destroyed by the Cowboys. Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper The Ravens and the Jets are no threat to pass the ball. Sure you can stop the run with 8-9 in the box all game long. Do you really want the Colts to put 8-9 in the box against Drew Brees? I know I do. Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts Sanchez was sacked 26 times on 364 attempts Flacco was sacked 36 times on 499 attempts O-line pass blocking advantage: clearly the Saints. Saints ran the ball 468 times for 2106 yards and a 4.5 average NY Jets ran the ball 607 times for 2756 yards and a 4.5 average Ravens ran the ball 468 times for 2200 yards and a 4.7 average Ok. The Ravens get 7 inches more per carry. Otherwise, neither Jets or Ravens seem to be better at running the ball than the Saints. No. The Cardinals scored 375 points all season long. The Saints scored 510 points all season long. And the Saints beat the Cards as well. So what? .. the Saints D doesn't play to shut anyone down. The Saints D plays to physically beat you up and make you fumble and give the ball back to the offense. . Ask the Vikings how they are feeling today. The Colts don't run the ball because they can't. With all the people who drop back to defend the pass, the Colts should be getting 5 yards a pop. .. don't bet the house on that...
indy4192 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 122

01-26-2010, 02:38 PM	#3
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D. Originally Posted by indy4192 Here to help you out... Lets see, Sanchez is a rookie and Flacco is in his second year, so both are going to struggle with sacks. Your O line may pass block better, but that doesn't mean they are an overall better line. . yet, you are so impressed with your team beating 2 teams with mediocre QBs who can't pass the ball. You can't have it both ways. Next: All 3 teams ran the ball well in the regular season. but when they played the Colts, how did they do? How did the top rusher in the NFL do against the Colts? Sorry but the Colts D right now is shutting the run down. .. again, it is easy to shut the run down when you put 8-9 people in the box when, as you admit above, the QBs on the other teams are mediocre and do not present a challenge. And again, I surely hope the Colts do the same against the Saints. Next: True the Saints scored more overall points, but are you really saying that the Cards are not as explosive as the Saints? How many more weapons do the Saints offer that the Cards don't? You can't tell me the Saints have a better 1-2 punch at WR then the Cards? You can't say the Saints have a better QB then the Cards? Yes you beat them up in your home, we destroyed them in their own home. Which is more impressive? Actually, I can say the Saints have a better QB than the Cardinals: Brees threw for 34 TDs 11 INTs 70.6% CR 103.6 PR Warner threw for 26 TDS 14 INTs 66.1 % CR 93.2 PR As for "weapons", I guess you mean media darlings like Fitz? The Saints don't really have any media darlings..but as far as WR punch, the Saints don't have a 1-2 punch, they have a 1-2-3-4 combination in Colston, Henderson, Meachem, and Reggie (there's also Lance Moore, but he's been hurt). The Saints have 2 TEs who are better at catching and blocking in Shockey and Thomas than anything the Cards have at TE. At RB, the combination of Pierre, Reggie, and Bell is better than what the Cards have, both running the ball and catching the ball out of the backfield. And yes, you will notice I put Reggie in both RB and WR. Now, don't you think that, when you compare one team to the other, when a team scores 135 more points than the other, thatmaybe, just maybe, the one team has better QB play and better weapons around that QB? Just sayin' Next: Well lets see, how many of those takeaways were from hard hits? The one fumble by AP was near the goal line and was due to a poor handoff, not any Saint player hitting him. I watche the game, the 1 Viking getting hit was Farve, I didn't see any other "bell ringers" on other Vikings? Yep. one fumble was a bad exchange.. the other fumbles, the ball was knocked out of the hands of the Vikings players. Don't discount the effects of the accumulation of hits. Not every punch is a knock out, but the accumulation of hit surely makes a difference. Next: During the regular season your right, you might want to see how we did against two top defenses the two past weeks. Well, the Colts scored 20 points on Baltimore. WOW! What a beat down! The Colts did score 30 on the Jets. Next: The major difference in the two teams is glaring. EXPERIENCE. The Saints will struggle with all that is involved in the next two weeks, the Colts have been there and done that. NOT 1 single team in that has played the Colts A team throughout the entire game has beaten the Colts this year, can you say the same for the Saints? You couldn't beat the lowly Bucs in your own home this season and got destroyed by the Cowboys. Ok. So 3 years ago, about half the current Colts played in a Superbowl, and they stayed in this hotel 3 years ago, and practiced in this field 3 years ago, and that is EXPERIENCE. O...K... I will tell you this: All the media events are scheduled for both teams equally, so that isn't a distraction. Unlike players who live in other states, these are the NEW ORLEANS Saints. They already live among "distractions". Not to mention, the character of the players on the Saints roster. Of course, I wouldn't expct you to know about that either I wouldn't call a 24-17 score getting destroyed, but I guess that's just an opinion. The Cowboys won, they were the better team that day, props to them. As for the Saints A team, I am glad you asked. I don't expect you to know the Saints roster, because you don't follow the Saints. Here's a secret you may not know, but the Saints have not played with their A team since week 5, and are going to the Superbowl without their A team, not to mention they started their season without their starting LT, their best pure possession receiver, and one of the staring DTs. But look.. you keep rationalizing the Superbowl win for the Colts, and keep on bringing all this stuff the Colts did in the past against other teams, keep telling yourself the Saints are no better than the Ravens or the Jets, and keep on reminding yourself how much more experienced the Colts are playing Superbowls. I'm just going to wait and see what happens when the game is actually played.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

01-26-2010, 12:35 PM	#4
braggbro1 Registered Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 55	Re: COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D. Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Brees was sacked 20 times on 514 attempts Manning was sacked 10 times in 575 attempts this season and yet I keep reading here about how the Saints are going to get to him. You're completely confident you can protect against Freeney and Mathis (remember Ware and Spencer?) and yet also completely confident you can get to Manning. Doesn't make too much sense to me. You're using stats when they support what you want to believe and ignoring them when they don't. That's all fine and good if you want to build up your confidence before the game but when the game starts, none of the false confidence will matter. I'm a Colts fan that has picked the Saints to win, but some of the reasoning here simply blows my mind. Both teams have an offensive advantage over the opposing defense. I think the Saints being the better running team gives them an advantage but by no means do I think the Saints are going to stop the Colts offense. This will be a shootout.
braggbro1 Registered Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 55

01-26-2010, 02:51 PM	#5
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: COLTS D isn't like the Vikes D. Originally Posted by braggbro1 Manning was sacked 10 times in 575 attempts this season and yet I keep reading here about how the Saints are going to get to him. You're completely confident you can protect against Freeney and Mathis (remember Ware and Spencer?) and yet also completely confident you can get to Manning. Doesn't make too much sense to me. You're using stats when they support what you want to believe and ignoring them when they don't. That's all fine and good if you want to build up your confidence before the game but when the game starts, none of the false confidence will matter. I'm a Colts fan that has picked the Saints to win, but some of the reasoning here simply blows my mind. Both teams have an offensive advantage over the opposing defense. I think the Saints being the better running team gives them an advantage but by no means do I think the Saints are going to stop the Colts offense. This will be a shootout. I will say, I've read your other posts, and you indeed are representing the Colts fans very well, and I am not saying that because you picked the Saints to win. That Dallas game was a bad one all around for the Saints. Brees got sacked 4 times that game. The Saints LT had all sorts of issues with Ware's rush, but for some reason unknown to man Sean Payton never gave Bushrod any help. The Saints lost their starting FB in week 5-6 (don't exactly remember) and never really solidified the position. Now they are using TEs as FBs, and they are doing a decent job.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill