The Brown/Bushrod debate

CantonLegend · 02-10-2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Brown is much better than Bushrod. If Bushrod can go somewhere else and get paid better then good luck. However, after saying that I have to say that if Brown had been starting I wonder if we would still be the World Champions? How many false starts or holding calls by Brown have stalled drives for us in the past? LT in my opinion could still be upgraded. Let's shop him around and see what we can get for Brown.

then again.....how many more points could we have scored because drew wasnt getting sacked? how many fewer times would drew have gotten hit?

SaintPauly · 02-10-2010, 04:03 PM

I will leave this decision to the experts. Whatever Loomis, and Payton decide is fine by me. The won us the superbowl! That's a pretty good resume for me.

Saint_LB · 02-11-2010, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

I will leave this decision to the experts. Whatever Loomis, and Payton decide is fine by me. The won us the superbowl! That's a pretty good resume for me.

Wow...I just made that same comment on another thread, and it does apply here, too. Nobody knows how Brown is gonna come back...didn't he have surgery?

papz · 02-10-2010, 05:58 PM

Bushrod can be as good as or better than our 28 year old All Pro LT? I'd laugh but that's not even remotely funny. Just because we won a Superbowl with Bushrod, that doesn't mean he's a better player than Brown.

Offensive tackle rankings: Young anchors awash in potential - RealScouts - NFL - Sporting News

Talk about being underrated by some Saints fans. All the non-sense about him being false start/holding prone is also a joke... search through the forums. Somewhere in here there's statistical rankings for that and the rest of our offensive line prior to the season.

Danno · 02-10-2010, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Bushrod can be as good as or better than our 28 year old All Pro LT? I'd laugh but that's not even remotely funny. Just because we won a Superbowl with Bushrod, that doesn't mean he's a better player than Brown.

Offensive tackle rankings: Young anchors awash in potential - RealScouts - NFL - Sporting News

Talk about being underrated by some Saints fans. All the non-sense about him being false start/holding prone is also a joke... search through the forums. Somewhere in here there's statistical rankings for that and the rest of our offensive line prior to the season.

Yep, he finished in the top 10 for all LT's and his penalties were no worse than the other guys on the list. In fact, his performance blew away the "pro-bowlers" selected.

I'll try to find that info...

Here's one part of it, 2008 stats...

Sacks given up by LT's league wide...

1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack
2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER
3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11)
3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks
3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks
7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks

8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games)
8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (12 games)
8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER
8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15)

13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks PRO BOWLER
13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER
15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks
15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games)
15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts)
18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games)
20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks
21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game)
21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks
23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER
24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13)
27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks
28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks
29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks
30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks
T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks
T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games)

And here were his penalties for 2008...

Tackle Jammal Brown: 3.0 sacks, 7 holding calls, 2 false starts.

st thomas · 02-10-2010, 06:05 PM

brown knows his game has to pick up or he'll ride the pine, but i don't see keeping both, bushrod's a free agent i think.

st thomas · 02-10-2010, 06:29 PM

awesome breakdown danno

papz · 02-10-2010, 06:44 PM

There was also a comparison on the amount penalties each of our offensive lineman committed if I recall correctly... and the discrepancy btw each of them was minuscule. In fact, Brown might not even been the most penalized out of the bunch. The numbers make you wonder how anyone can say his play was on the decline... decline from what?

So as far as the Brown/Bushrod debate, the only thing to debate is whether to keep both of them. And with both Brown and Bushrod being restricted free agent(unless a new CBA is agreed upon), you keep both. It's a no brainer.

MatthewT · 02-10-2010, 08:47 PM

Gotta keep both guys around. Bushrod is getting closer, but he is not there yet. Brown is a legitimate all pro, going to be nice to have him back next year. Saints did a great job covering up the weakness at LT, they won't get away with that forever.

SaintPauly · 02-10-2010, 09:00 PM

I'm curious what happens to ufa's, and rfa's, in 2011, if a new CBA has not been agreed upon. If there's a lock out, what happens to these players status then?

02-10-2010, 01:38 PM	#1
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Brown is much better than Bushrod. If Bushrod can go somewhere else and get paid better then good luck. However, after saying that I have to say that if Brown had been starting I wonder if we would still be the World Champions? How many false starts or holding calls by Brown have stalled drives for us in the past? LT in my opinion could still be upgraded. Let's shop him around and see what we can get for Brown. then again.....how many more points could we have scored because drew wasnt getting sacked? how many fewer times would drew have gotten hit?

02-10-2010, 04:03 PM	#2
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate I will leave this decision to the experts. Whatever Loomis, and Payton decide is fine by me. The won us the superbowl! That's a pretty good resume for me.

02-11-2010, 05:23 AM	#3
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate Originally Posted by saintpaul25 I will leave this decision to the experts. Whatever Loomis, and Payton decide is fine by me. The won us the superbowl! That's a pretty good resume for me. Wow...I just made that same comment on another thread, and it does apply here, too. Nobody knows how Brown is gonna come back...didn't he have surgery?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

02-10-2010, 05:58 PM	#4
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate Bushrod can be as good as or better than our 28 year old All Pro LT? I'd laugh but that's not even remotely funny. Just because we won a Superbowl with Bushrod, that doesn't mean he's a better player than Brown. Offensive tackle rankings: Young anchors awash in potential - RealScouts - NFL - Sporting News Talk about being underrated by some Saints fans. All the non-sense about him being false start/holding prone is also a joke... search through the forums. Somewhere in here there's statistical rankings for that and the rest of our offensive line prior to the season.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

02-10-2010, 06:25 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate Originally Posted by papz Bushrod can be as good as or better than our 28 year old All Pro LT? I'd laugh but that's not even remotely funny. Just because we won a Superbowl with Bushrod, that doesn't mean he's a better player than Brown. Offensive tackle rankings: Young anchors awash in potential - RealScouts - NFL - Sporting News Talk about being underrated by some Saints fans. All the non-sense about him being false start/holding prone is also a joke... search through the forums. Somewhere in here there's statistical rankings for that and the rest of our offensive line prior to the season. Yep, he finished in the top 10 for all LT's and his penalties were no worse than the other guys on the list. In fact, his performance blew away the "pro-bowlers" selected. I'll try to find that info... Here's one part of it, 2008 stats... Sacks given up by LT's league wide... 1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack 2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER 3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11) 3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks 3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks 7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks 8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games) 8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (12 games) 8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER 8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15) 13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks PRO BOWLER 13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER 15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks 15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games) 15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts) 18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games) 20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks 21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game) 21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks 23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER 24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13) 27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks 28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks 29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks 30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games) And here were his penalties for 2008... Tackle Jammal Brown: 3.0 sacks, 7 holding calls, 2 false starts.
	Last edited by Danno; 02-10-2010 at 06:28 PM..

02-10-2010, 06:05 PM	#6
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate brown knows his game has to pick up or he'll ride the pine, but i don't see keeping both, bushrod's a free agent i think.

02-10-2010, 06:29 PM	#7
st thomas Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: lafayette Posts: 7,753	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate awesome breakdown danno

02-10-2010, 06:44 PM	#8
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate There was also a comparison on the amount penalties each of our offensive lineman committed if I recall correctly... and the discrepancy btw each of them was minuscule. In fact, Brown might not even been the most penalized out of the bunch. The numbers make you wonder how anyone can say his play was on the decline... decline from what? So as far as the Brown/Bushrod debate, the only thing to debate is whether to keep both of them. And with both Brown and Bushrod being restricted free agent(unless a new CBA is agreed upon), you keep both. It's a no brainer.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

02-10-2010, 08:47 PM	#9
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate Gotta keep both guys around. Bushrod is getting closer, but he is not there yet. Brown is a legitimate all pro, going to be nice to have him back next year. Saints did a great job covering up the weakness at LT, they won't get away with that forever.

02-10-2010, 09:00 PM	#10
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Brown/Bushrod debate I'm curious what happens to ufa's, and rfa's, in 2011, if a new CBA has not been agreed upon. If there's a lock out, what happens to these players status then?

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